no milk no pistachio .. then your good to go ..

 

no milk no pistachio .. then your good to go ..

how come?

Just wandering what is the correct amount of protein after a workout? I take about 50g, but am thinking of upping to 100g. Would this be a waste of money as the body can only absorb so much protein in one hit?(i'm taking as though) . Also will adding carbs to my post workout shake slow down the protein being absorbed by my body?

What would be a good post workout shake for bulking (i am currently ahaving 1 banana, tbls honey, pistachio nuts, 2 scoops whey, 400ml skimmed milk)

If you are going to add in another 50g of protein i would add this in as a solid form on top of your shake mate,get a fast acting whey in pwo and then get some meat in there to digest away slowly giving you a nice drip of amino's

your pwo shake sounds fine to me,certainly more thought into it than what i put into mine lol

 

So around 50g protein in water? What about carbs to help with cortisol?

 

Ditch the milk, nuts, honey.

50g protein is tons post wkt.

Keep the banana or swap with 80g or so of simple carbs ie maltodextrin, waxy barley / maize or similar.

 

carb banana is good .. but if you want better choice .. anything like mathodex or dextrose .. would do ..

 

how come?

because milk will slow down the digestion of the shake so does nuts .. has alot of fat in it .. again slows the digestion system down .. not the best thing you need post workout.

 

my own opinion is that protein and the urgency to get it in as fast as possible immediately powo is a bit of a myth.

Logically, the first thing your body is going to be craving is carbohydrates to replenish short and medium term energy stores. This is going to be your bodies first priority - to make sure the brain and systems have enough glucose.

Only some time later, once it has recognised that the activity is no longer occuring, and the energy situation has been restored, (so now "safe" to do more energy intensive repair work) will it contemplate making best use of protein IMO... why would it start repairing muscle tissue, when the activity may not be finished? It could get caught short, and is not a smart method of perating for survival. It would be a bit like a soldier taking his boots off to get a bit of kip, just because the enemy haven't fired in a while...

So I certainly wouldn't up your immediate POWO protein intake to 100g, I don't think it would harm you, I just think it would be wasteful and non-productive.

If you can't let go of the notion of 50g whey - this is loads - fine, but at least wait a while - or as weeman says eat solid protien - if you are compelled to add more.

 

rs007-good post never though of it like that

 

I have 3 egg whites in my PWO shake every day, will this make a difference to digestion of proteins?

 

The only time i dont have pwo shake without milk is when i am precontest and remove all dairy,year round i have it in milk these days(for the last 18 months,used to only have it in water before)cant say i've noticed it to be detrimental

 

wouldnt have thought so tho these days its largely recomended not to consume raw eggs unless they are pasturised due to the way biovin affects protein absorption in the body (someone correct me if i have that mixed up)

 

there are lots of time .. i have chicken and rice for post workout .. i'm not even sure if this is a good idea. but i have seen pro bodybuilder do the same in my gym .. no shakes .. so i can't see a problem .. and they are still growing .. shake isn't neccesary .

 

Ok thanks guys

 

i used to drink it with milk .. as the milk gives you some carbs too .. but i was told it's not a good idea. to be honest.. i was stil building so i don't really see a difference.. . .some people have mass shakes post workout they have fat in them as well .. so it might be all a big lie. lol

 

because milk will slow down the digestion of the shake so does nuts .. has alot of fat in it .. again slows the digestion system down .. not the best thing you need post workout.

So how much does it slow it down mate? :confused1:

Does it take 3x as long to reach the system? 2x?

I'll bet the slowing effect is so minor it doesnt make as much difference as people like to think.

I read a paper a while back - trying to find it now - that said explicitiy that things do not leave the stomach at the same rate as the necessarily go in, the implication being that it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference. What does, is the type of protein you begin with. Some take longer to break down, and are still breaking down as they go along the small intestine - regardless of whether they have fat with it or not. Others digest and break up very quickly, and get absorbed from the small intestine very quickly - again pretty much regardless of the other foodstuffs it is eaten with.

A st bernard can never be as quick as a greyhound, and a greyhound will always be faster than a st bernard - regardless what other sh1t you throw at them.

I remember when the "windows of opportunity" were first reported in Flex and the like.

The first window was for carbohydrates - within 30 min after your workout ends. the second window was for protein, and didn't open until 60 tp 90 minutes after workout end. This not only backs up my logic in my post above, but also the real world experiences of guys like TinyTom - guys that don't particularly fuss with POWO protein intake as such, but rather just getting a good protein rich meal in, around an hour after workout.

This whole pseudoscience of post workout shakes is a modern internet phenomena TBH, has only emerged last few years, all sorts of crazy cocktails, funny how the standard of the physique sported by folks touting hasn't improved much in the same period :lol:

 

to be honest i don't know how long .. so i can't really comment on that. but fat in take does slow digestion .. that's why is recommended to add oil or peanut butter for pre bed shake.

 

there are lots of time .. i have chicken and rice for post workout .. i'm not even sure if this is a good idea. but i have seen pro bodybuilder do the same in my gym .. no shakes .. so i can't see a problem .. and they are still growing .. shake isn't neccesary .

thats true bud,RoN Coleman eats steak and rice pwo,the likes of Haney Rambod doesnt like his clients to touch shakes even pwo,and everyone he touches these days seems to turn to gold!

 

This is all interesting stuff and has changeds my perception somewhat. No more fussing about the so called window of opportunity (which i was told is open for 30 min post workout) :beer:

 

yeah to be honest lately .. because i train so early .. i have eggs protien powder mixed with my oat meal .. that's my 2nd breakfast which is after my workout. and i don't see a problem .

 

So how much does it slow it down mate? :confused1:

Does it take 3x as long to reach the system? 2x?

I'll bet the slowing effect is so minor it doesnt make as much difference as people like to think.

I read a paper a while back - trying to find it now - that said explicitiy that things do not leave the stomach at the same rate as the necessarily go in, the implication being that it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference. What does, is the type of protein you begin with. Some take longer to break down, and are still breaking down as they go along the small intestine - regardless of whether they have fat with it or not. Others digest and break up very quickly, and get absorbed from the small intestine very quickly - again pretty much regardless of the other foodstuffs it is eaten with.

A st bernard can never be as quick as a greyhound, and a greyhound will always be faster than a st bernard - regardless what other sh1t you throw at them.

I remember when the "windows of opportunity" were first reported in Flex and the like.

The first window was for carbohydrates - within 30 min after your workout ends. the second window was for protein, and didn't open until 60 tp 90 minutes after workout end. This not only backs up my logic in my post above, but also the real world experiences of guys like TinyTom - guys that don't particularly fuss with POWO protein intake as such, but rather just getting a good protein rich meal in, around an hour after workout.

This whole pseudoscience of post workout shakes is a modern internet phenomena TBH, has only emerged last few years, all sorts of crazy cocktails, funny how the standard of the physique sported by folks touting hasn't improved much in the same period :lol:

+1000

Sizar instead of repeating stuff you read you may as well experiment,and make a conclusion for yourself. Or if don t you want to risk , search on Pubmed ,there are studies with people that gained lean tissue with milk post exercise.And that's excluding babies!

 

I'm gonna be a cock and put up my 2p's worth here...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16472979?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Conculsion: Take simple carbs + BCAA during workouts, especially longer ones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18059587?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1

Conclusion: A mix of protein and carbs post wkt is better than carbs alone.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16456674?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Conclusion: The increased protein synthesis from post wkt nutrition does, over a period of 12 weeks, result in bigger muscles.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19589961?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Conclusion: For the same amount of protein, rapidly digesting, high leucine protein sources will yield greatest increases in post wkt protein synthesis.

For those reasons, I'll use a high leucine, rapidly digested protein, mixed with some carbs.....ie whey and anything carbs.

 

i have found having a shake of bcaa/glut etc during the workout then a pwo meal around 30-45 mins after training to work best for me. this meal is either some protein powder with oats/banana etc or rice/couscous and chicken or eggs

 

I'm gonna be a cock and put up my 2p's worth here...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16472979?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Conculsion: Take simple carbs + BCAA during workouts, especially longer ones.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18059587?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1

Conclusion: A mix of protein and carbs post wkt is better than carbs alone.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16456674?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Conclusion: The increased protein synthesis from post wkt nutrition does, over a period of 12 weeks, result in bigger muscles.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19589961?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

Conclusion: For the same amount of protein, rapidly digesting, high leucine protein sources will yield greatest increases in post wkt protein synthesis.

For those reasons, I'll use a high leucine, rapidly digested protein, mixed with some carbs.....ie whey and anything carbs.

How are you being a cock? :lol: Apart from the usual I mean :whistling:



There is a hell of a lot those exerpts dont say though, for instance, the last one - doesn't say what these test subjects were eating the rest of the time which COULD have a drastic effect. Most bbers keep an infusion of high quality protein going in at all times, so amino acids, including leucine, will be available to the system constantly - not just in a quick burst powo.

If those guys were eating your common or garden balanced diet the rest of the time, then just having a whack of carbohydrate and whey Isolate POWO, I am not surprised they would get an anabolic spike. Each time would be liek a post show rebound in miniature.

Would a guy who already had high levels of aminos and carbs (from a well constructed diet) throughout his training anyway, get the same effect?

But with relevance to the OPs main q, 100g protein PoWo is still gong to be a crazy high amount IMO, and there is nothing in those abstracts to say otherwise.

 

If those guys were eating your common or garden balanced diet the rest of the time, then just having a whack of carbohydrate and whey Isolate POWO, I am not surprised they would get an anabolic spike. Each time would be liek a post show rebound in miniature.

Would a guy who already had high levels of aminos and carbs (from a well constructed diet) throughout his training anyway, get the same effect?

But with relevance to the OPs main q, 100g protein PoWo is still gong to be a crazy high amount IMO, and there is nothing in those abstracts to say otherwise.

Agree with 100g being nuts. 5-10g BCAA during and 20g or so whey afters is fine for a wee guy.

Guy with plenty aminos would be fine, protein synth would defo be elevated during the wkt, mTOR pathway does it's wee check and basically as long as there is plenty of aminos, adequate leucine, a small plasma insulin level (which a normal BBing offseason diet would provide anyway), adequate hydration and an extra cellular glutamine pool then PS will be signalled for.

After that it is just a matter of whether you think it better to spike insulin post wkt or not. Increasing insulin levels DO increase the rate of protein synthesis once it has been triggered, hence why mofo's use slin, eh

I think the best approach is to use high GI carbs first, then slower 40 mins or so after, so I use Pro Recover, then follow with food or whey / casein blend and malto or similar to get a second spike. That said I don't use any meds that alter blood sugar levels. I'd think something COULD be said for using meds post wkt then waiting, then having a meal, assuming all the requirments for mTOR pathway listed above we're already there PRIOR / DURING the workout.

Journal excerpt:

2 EAS RTD's, CNP Flapjack (plenty protein, leucine, L-glut and carbs)

Vmax Pump - pre wkt

60g Battery, 5g BCAA - during wkt

3 scoops Pro Recover - post wkt

A bit later..

90+ in water

2 bananas, 1 scoop pro recover

Battery (carb blend)

then on to solid food...

 

my own opinion is that protein and the urgency to get it in as fast as possible immediately powo is a bit of a myth.

Logically, the first thing your body is going to be craving is carbohydrates to replenish short and medium term energy stores. This is going to be your bodies first priority - to make sure the brain and systems have enough glucose.

Only some time later, once it has recognised that the activity is no longer occuring, and the energy situation has been restored, (so now "safe" to do more energy intensive repair work) will it contemplate making best use of protein IMO... why would it start repairing muscle tissue, when the activity may not be finished? It could get caught short, and is not a smart method of perating for survival. It would be a bit like a soldier taking his boots off to get a bit of kip, just because the enemy haven't fired in a while...

So I certainly wouldn't up your immediate POWO protein intake to 100g, I don't think it would harm you, I just think it would be wasteful and non-productive.

If you can't let go of the notion of 50g whey - this is loads - fine, but at least wait a while - or as weeman says eat solid protien - if you are compelled to add more.

I think thats the same train as thought as tinytom. What do yous think about drinking malto durin workout?