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Trubnut

Where do I go from here

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Hi all,

I'm  considering TRT as I'm tired of feeling like crap and I desperately need to get back on top of my life as it's all slowly turning to $hi#

I've recently tried again to perk up my natural test levels running another clomid/nolva pct and I've ended up more or less where I started at 13nmol.

I've not bounced back from a cycle I ran in August 2019 and have been suffering with the symptoms of low test ever since.

I've been having regular blood work by medichecks to keep a track on things.

Am I right in thinking at 13nmol the NHS would just dismiss any thought of TRT? 

At the moment I have no idea which route to take. I have no idea if there's any hope to get my balls firing on all cylinders again or if TRT is the best option.

Attached is my last blood test taken 5 weeks after my most recent pct.

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You’d find it nigh on impossible at 13nmol to get TRT on the NHS so your options are to try and suppress it sufficiently around the time you’ll be seen to try and get it under 8nmol for testing or bite the bullet & go private.

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I’d be looking to investigate the high LH level. Would have thought it’d be lower that long after PCT.  Ever Had your pituitary Gland looked at or issues before AAS usage? Considered HCG? E2 could do with being higher also... but yeah you won’t get treatment on NHS at 13nmol. 

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I did think that would be the case in regards to the NHS. 

I've never had my pituitary looked at and not had any issues with AAS, I ran one fairly mild cycle of epistane (30mg 4 weeks) once per year and never had an issue after pct. The last one I ran in 2019 I threw a prohormone version of Tren in the mix and I've never recovered from that cycle.

My bloods in January 2020 showed my prolactin levels were mental, I took a handful of natural remedies to try and bring that down and in February they had slightly improved. I left my body to do it's thing and re-tested in August 2020 due to developing a gyno issue that I believe was related to my prolactin. Here's my bloods from those dates. My LH levels prior to this last pct were all within range.

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@Pez189 cheers, I'd be willing to try anything if it might give me a chance of producing a decent amount of natural test again. What would you recommend dosing the HCG at and would you follow that with clomid?

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9 hours ago, TERBO said:

@Trubnut I would definitely look at this, will be a cause of lower testosterone.

Why would high LH be a cause of low testosterone?

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High LH and low testosterone can sometimes be a sign of primary hypogonadism. The pituitary gland  is seeing and aware of a testosterone deficiency and trying to compensate for that with producing more LH to stimulate the testes... but for some reason (that’s the issue), testosterone isn’t being produced as expected but LH remains high. Could be a number of reasons but I’m not an expect. OP - go speak to your GP and be refered to an endo about this. 

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7 minutes ago, Pez189 said:

High LH and low testosterone can sometimes be a sign of primary hypogonadism. The pituitary gland  is seeing and aware of a testosterone deficiency and trying to compensate for that with producing more LH to stimulate the testes... but for some reason (that’s the issue), testosterone isn’t being produced as expected but LH remains high. Could be a number of reasons but I’m not an expect. OP - go speak to your GP and be refered to an endo about this. 

I understand what primary hypogonadism is pal, I was just confused when he said high LH could be a cause of low testosterone 

It’s obvious there is some testicular response lag here, which is why I asked if hcg was used at any point. He’s only just dropped rye serms too, they take ages to clear due to long half lives 

OP hasn’t really gone into great detail tbf, could be a simple case of waiting it out 

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21 minutes ago, C T said:

I understand what primary hypogonadism is pal, I was just confused when he said high LH could be a cause of low testosterone 

How can you understand and be confused at the same time? 

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31 minutes ago, Pez189 said:

How can you understand and be confused at the same time? 

High Lh isn’t a direct cause of low test is it ya mong 

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24 minutes ago, Pez189 said:

Yes it is. 

 And your name is clearing missing UN in the middle. 
 

 

No it isn’t.

As for your explanation above, the pituitary doesn’t see anything, it’s the hypothalamus

it’s clear you don’t understand how the HPTA even works so I won’t waste my time further 

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4 minutes ago, C T said:

No it isn’t.

As for your explanation above, the pituitary doesn’t see anything, it’s the hypothalamus

it’s clear you don’t understand how the HPTA even works so I won’t even waste my time further 

Yeah pituitary gland via the hypothalamus. Anyway you’re boring me. 

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14 hours ago, Trubnut said:

@Pez189 cheers, I'd be willing to try anything if it might give me a chance of producing a decent amount of natural test again. What would you recommend dosing the HCG at and would you follow that with clomid?

Sorry. Didn’t see this before for some reason. I’d see an endo if I was you and find out why the LH is where it’s at before considering any other options. 

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@Pez189  sorry my replies were going to moderation being a new account. There's some other blood work and replies further back which you may have missed in regards to the LH

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Your testicular function is clearly lacking, testosterone would be higher with LH levels of 11 if they were functioning properly.

Your only choices are, give it more time or have a trial of TRT

The high LH is just the SERMS lingering, they take ages to clear 

Did you use any HCG at any point?

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@C T thanks for taking the time to post I appreciate and need all the advice I can get. 

I've not used any HCG before, my usual pct has always just consisted of nolva. With the exception of this last attempt to get things going again I ran 50mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva for two weeks then continued with 20mg of nolva for 4 weeks.

Do you think another attempt but with a couple of weeks of high dose HCG to start would make a difference?

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9 minutes ago, Trubnut said:

@C T thanks for taking the time to post I appreciate and need all the advice I can get. 

I've not used any HCG before, my usual pct has always just consisted of nolva. With the exception of this last attempt to get things going again I ran 50mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva for two weeks then continued with 20mg of nolva for 4 weeks.

Do you think another attempt but with a couple of weeks of high dose HCG to start would make a difference?

You could do, but tbh, you’d most likely need big doses, and for a good amount of time to achieve anything looking at your LH level

If your testes ain’t responding to high natural LH levels, then I can’t  see what good it would do injecting an LH analogue.

How old are you pal?

Are you taking anything at all at the moment? Medication, supplements or anything 

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I'm 38 but I'm definitely feeling much older at the minute ?

I'm taking 3 caps of zma before bed and 4000iu of vitamin D.

I'm not on any other meds other than a daily piriton tablet because I'm just allergic to life.

If there's  chance HCG would do the job would it hurt to try? Or would it do more harm than good?

I'm only 20 minutes or so from the Leger clinic so if TRT is the way forward I think I'd go with them

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25 minutes ago, Trubnut said:

I'm 38 but I'm definitely feeling much older at the minute ?

I'm taking 3 caps of zma before bed and 4000iu of vitamin D.

I'm not on any other meds other than a daily piriton tablet because I'm just allergic to life.

If there's  chance HCG would do the job would it hurt to try? Or would it do more harm than good?

I'm only 20 minutes or so from the Leger clinic so if TRT is the way forward I think I'd go with them

No won’t do any more harm mate 

You’ll need bloods on it to get dose right, I would go with 3000iu a week split into 2/3 shots as a starting point, get bloods done in second week, you may find that’s not enough, if so you can increase to 5000iu per week then reassess 

I know it sounds a lot, but it’s not, and you’re solely relying on this to get you in a good mid-high range, not alongside trt or a cycle so the doses you’ll see being used for that are much lower 

In studies they’ve used up to 10,000 iu a week in male fertility protocols without issue

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