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Fors331

Tren gyno?

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1 hour ago, Tonysco said:

Do you have an AI on hand?

If so you should start taking it immediately. 

I’m pretty sure AI won’t help. Tren gyno is caused by progesterone if that’s what he has. I don’t think nolva will help either.

Someone else will hopefully come along and clarify. Probably need bloods but I’m not entirely sure.

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7 hours ago, Fors331 said:

I never thought you could get gyno on Tren alone but iv been on it around two weeks now and my nipples are itching like a bitch

If it's past the point of being controlled with an AI, then stop the tren and start nolva @ 20mg or ralox @ 60mg a day.

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My nips always puffed up a bit on cycle even when taking generous amounts of AI. Never realized until recently it was the goddamnn tren.

Running test only atm and even with less than half the AI I usually take my nips are completely fine. Zero aggravation. My joints feel so much better now that I don't have to hammer my e2.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, MrBrightside said:

Yep. I get it. Even with an AI. 

Same with deca. 

 

Something about 19nors that triggers this in some people. It took me too long to realize I am also one of these people, seeing how I am blasting test solo and barely need an AI at all.

I know that on some blood tests deca/tren show up as estrogen. Someone who is familiar with the pharmacokinectics of 19nors could probably shed more light into this subject.

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1 hour ago, feelinfine said:

I know that on some blood tests deca/tren show up as estrogen. 

Tren will show as estrogen on an ECLIA blood test and deca as testosterone.

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1 hour ago, Sasnak said:

I’m pretty sure AI won’t help. Tren gyno is caused by progesterone if that’s what he has. I don’t think nolva will help either.

Someone else will hopefully come along and clarify. Probably need bloods but I’m not entirely sure.

Yeh i thought this, apparently use cabaser but iv never had to use this in the past, nolvadex always helps when i have itchy nipples but that when im on test also

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1 hour ago, TERBO said:

If it's past the point of being controlled with an AI, then stop the tren and start nolva @ 20mg or ralox @ 60mg a day.

Its only been a week or so mate lol, its just itchy nips

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20 minutes ago, Fors331 said:

Yeh i thought this, apparently use cabaser but iv never had to use this in the past, nolvadex always helps when i have itchy nipples but that when im on test also

Bloods for prolactin/progesterone 

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35 minutes ago, Fors331 said:

Its only been a week or so mate lol, its just itchy nips

Just just ignore good advice, leave it another 7 weeks and then you can come on here again and ask for advice when things have gotten 10 times worse. 

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1 hour ago, feelinfine said:

 

Something about 19nors that triggers this in some people. It took me too long to realize I am also one of these people, seeing how I am blasting test solo and barely need an AI at all.

I know that on some blood tests deca/tren show up as estrogen. Someone who is familiar with the pharmacokinectics of 19nors could probably shed more light into this subject.

Some on here used to say if you control estrogen you won't have prolactin/progesterone issues but I used to run letrozole at 1 tablet a day and I'd still get gyno. I used caber a few times but over did it I think and used to feel like s**t off it. 

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It is not possible for progesterone or prolactin to cause the mammary gland, connected tissue and ducts to develop. Estrogen is required.

IGF-1 also plays a part in this, which is why some develop gyno when first taking HGH.

What has likely happened with the OP, is tren has shut him down. Testosterone can drop fairly quickly but oestrogen takes time to reduce. What he has now, despite a strong androgen, is a very estrogenic environment.

Tamoxifen is what I would suggest.

@MrBrightside if you were running 2.5mg of letro per day then I can only assume it was fake / bunk. 
 

Androgens reduce ER expression in ‘breast tissue’ too, hence why masteron is quite popular.

So when gyno is developing you have to consider hormonal balance (or lack of) rather than looking at oesteogens and progestogens in isolation.

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7 minutes ago, Bensif said:

It is not possible for progesterone or prolactin to cause the mammary gland, connected tissue and ducts to develop

Thanks Bensif 

Just to clarify, progesterone gyno doesn’t exist? 

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41 minutes ago, Bensif said:

It is not possible for progesterone or prolactin to cause the mammary gland, connected tissue and ducts to develop. Estrogen is required.

IGF-1 also plays a part in this, which is why some develop gyno when first taking HGH.

What has likely happened with the OP, is tren has shut him down. Testosterone can drop fairly quickly but oestrogen takes time to reduce. What he has now, despite a strong androgen, is a very estrogenic environment.

Tamoxifen is what I would suggest.

@MrBrightside if you were running 2.5mg of letro per day then I can only assume it was fake / bunk. 
 

Androgens reduce ER expression in ‘breast tissue’ too, hence why masteron is quite popular.

So when gyno is developing you have to consider hormonal balance (or lack of) rather than looking at oesteogens and progestogens in isolation.

This was my first thought! Nolvadex has always helped for this but read about gyno is different with tren alone... god know but if it gets worst il take some nolvadex, it was bad this morning but has been better since

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42 minutes ago, Sasnak said:

Thanks Bensif 

Just to clarify, progesterone gyno doesn’t exist? 

I do not believe (based on my understanding) that progesterone alone will cause development of the mammary glands. This isn’t to say that an environment that is high in progesteron(s) isn’t an environment that gyno can develop in.

Its a case of understanding what is happening hormonally that is allowing this happen. It means there is sufficient expression of the ER receptor and sufficient oestrogen to bind.

Now I know oestrogen can upregulate the expression of both the ER and PR, but I cannot recall if progesterone does the same to the ER. I would need to check. But if it did, then again you can see how higher progesterone could create an environment where gyno may develop, but oestrogen still needs to be present. In the case of the OP it very likely was, and in the absence of testosterone he has the necessary hormonal balance to permit growth.

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30 minutes ago, Bensif said:

I do not believe (based on my understanding) that progesterone alone will cause development of the mammary glands. This isn’t to say that an environment that is high in progesteron(s) isn’t an environment that gyno can develop in.

Its a case of understanding what is happening hormonally that is allowing this happen. It means there is sufficient expression of the ER receptor and sufficient oestrogen to bind.

Now I know oestrogen can upregulate the expression of both the ER and PR, but I cannot recall if progesterone does the same to the ER. I would need to check. But if it did, then again you can see how higher progesterone could create an environment where gyno may develop, but oestrogen still needs to be present. In the case of the OP it very likely was, and in the absence of testosterone he has the necessary hormonal balance to permit growth.

What usually happens with Tren, is the tissue is already there in unnoticeable amounts. Tren causes it to swell up and become noticeable and goes back down once the agonist is out the system. A lot of the time people have existing gyno tissue that only causes an issues in excessively high estrodial levels, so don't know they actually have it. Its not new gyno, it's just no longer dormant.

You're absolutely correct that tren on its own, via its interaction with the PR cannot cause ductile growth without the presence of estrogen. The only time when estrogen and a PR agonist are present on large amounts is during pregnancy which is why women's tits usually get bigger.

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12 hours ago, MrBrightside said:

Some on here used to say if you control estrogen you won't have prolactin/progesterone issues but I used to run letrozole at 1 tablet a day and I'd still get gyno. I used caber a few times but over did it I think and used to feel like s**t off it. 

 

Same here. I used to take way too much AI/caber/etc no matter what the puffiness and itchiness never fully went away. It only stopped when my cycle stopped. That should have been my first clue.

I just thought I was one of those gyno sensitive people and it is just apart of cycling AAS. I took a long break from gear in general, only recently started up again after gyms reopened. Turns out I barely need AI at all when blasting high amounts of test. It was the tren that was culprit after all.

Some people no matter what they do get sensitive nips/gyno symptoms on 19nors. Even when I crashed my e2 it would never fully go away. I am glad I finally figured it out since now I feel way better and healthy not overdosing on AI.

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On 23/10/2020 at 7:21 PM, Fors331 said:

Yeh i thought this, apparently use cabaser but iv never had to use this in the past, nolvadex always helps when i have itchy nipples but that when im on test also

If your gyno is prolactin related which is most likely on tren then nolvadex is the worst thing you can take, it increases prolactin.

Future tren cycles start with test only and an AI, get blood work to ensure your estrogen is in range and then add tren then if you get any sensitivity / gyno you know its the tren increasing prolactin and can easily be solved with cabergoline.

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3 hours ago, Gameon123 said:

If your gyno is prolactin related which is most likely on tren then nolvadex is the worst thing you can take, it increases prolactin.

Future tren cycles start with test only and an AI, get blood work to ensure your estrogen is in range and then add tren then if you get any sensitivity / gyno you know its the tren increasing prolactin and can easily be solved with cabergoline.

That was badly applied bro science quoting a study on tumours. What happens in the body, if you reduce the expression of e2, you get a very temp upregulation of other receptors. They all return to baseline rapidly leaving the SERM doing exactly what it needs to. 

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