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Jgsn

Have I considered everything for first cycle?

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Hi all, 

Posted about starting my first cycle some time ago, still just researching. I probably am months away from finally starting but want to make sure I’ve got my head around it all for when the time comes. Does the below look alright? 

Cycle

Test C 400mg e7d 

15 weeks

 

HCG 500iu e3.5d, up to 3 days prior to PCT

 

Adex 0.5mg eod

15 weeks 

 

PCT

Clomid 100/100/100/50/50 - 5 weeks total 

Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20/20 - 7 weeks total

Aromasin 25/12.5 - 2 weeks total

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Looks good mate. Only thing I’d say is don’t major the minors RE: the HCG. Every 3 days is fine or twice a week is fine.

Id do 0.25 adex. 0.5mg eod is a lot. You may not even need it at all at 400mg a week. You can always take more/ adjust if you need to.

Only run clomid for 4 weeks 100/100/50/50.

Good luck and enjoy. 

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5 hours ago, Jgsn said:

Hi all, 

Posted about starting my first cycle some time ago, still just researching. I probably am months away from finally starting but want to make sure I’ve got my head around it all for when the time comes. Does the below look alright? 

Cycle

Test C 400mg e7d 

15 weeks

 

HCG 500iu e3.5d, up to 3 days prior to PCT

 

Adex 0.5mg eod

15 weeks 

 

PCT

Clomid 100/100/100/50/50 - 5 weeks total 

Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20/20 - 7 weeks total

Aromasin 25/12.5 - 2 weeks total

Hey man, curious to why you are going with 400mg E7D and for 15 weeks, I have seen some studies that say past 12 weeks your body starts to get used to the Test and its not as effective,  I get the E7D because Test C has a half life of 8 days but the 400mg is this you trying to avoid the side effects? are you pre disposed to any of the side effects?

BTW i havent even done my first cycle yet plan on doing is very shortly just open up to discussion and your thought process :D

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2 minutes ago, Stroudyo said:

Hey man, curious to why you are going with 400mg E7D and for 15 weeks, I have seen some studies that say past 12 weeks your body starts to get used to the Test and its not as effective,  I get the E7D because Test C has a half life of 8 days but the 400mg is this you trying to avoid the side effects? are you pre disposed to any of the side effects?

BTW i havent even done my first cycle yet plan on doing is very shortly just open up to discussion and your thought process :D

If our body's "got used to test" then life would be pretty s**t mate lol

I reckon if guys can gain natty their whole lives then 400mg of test will see us through 15 weeks :lol:

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2 minutes ago, stuey99 said:

If our body's "got used to test" then life would be pretty s**t mate lol

I reckon if guys can gain natty their whole lives then 400mg of test will see us through 15 weeks :lol:

Obviously not at normal levels but at higher doses it can become pointless to go longer on a higher dose as your results will taper off and you will still have the same risk to getting side effects as well as burning a hole in your wallet. Im sure you could find the study some where like i said i am far from an expert but this is what i took away from briefly reading this study. 

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10 minutes ago, Stroudyo said:

Obviously not at normal levels but at higher doses it can become pointless to go longer on a higher dose as your results will taper off and you will still have the same risk to getting side effects as well as burning a hole in your wallet. Im sure you could find the study some where like i said i am far from an expert but this is what i took away from briefly reading this study. 

I've never got to 12 weeks and felt like there was no point continuing to be fair...and in all honesty finding a study wouldn't change that

I'd go by personal experience mate...I think guys get too caught up in what studies tell them, when in reality your body will tell you when there's no point continuing a cycle

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12 minutes ago, Stroudyo said:

Obviously not at normal levels but at higher doses it can become pointless to go longer on a higher dose as your results will taper off and you will still have the same risk to getting side effects as well as burning a hole in your wallet. Im sure you could find the study some where like i said i am far from an expert but this is what i took away from briefly reading this study. 

Nope. Hence why you see people blasting 500+ for years without a break 

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18 minutes ago, stuey99 said:

I've never got to 12 weeks and felt like there was no point continuing to be fair...and in all honesty finding a study wouldn't change that

I'd go by personal experience mate...I think guys get too caught up in what studies tell them, when in reality your body will tell you when there's no point continuing a cycle

That is a fair point people come in all different shape and sizes and react differently as long as its done responsibly 

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20 minutes ago, Youdontknowme said:

Nope. Hence why you see people blasting 500+ for years without a break 

Probably true bud and studies are not the end all be all well aware of this :P  and i still have loads to learn from all this, Im glad this has opened discussion for learning :D

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1 hour ago, Endomorph84 said:

I reckon he’s got TestC 200 and is pinning 2ml a week

Yeah this, literally only reason. If I can get hold of Test E 250 then I’ll do 500 per week. 

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1 hour ago, Jgsn said:

Yeah this, literally only reason. If I can get hold of Test E 250 then I’ll do 500 per week. 

You don't need gear to be 250mg / ml to do 500mg per week. 1.25mg of 200mg/ml = 250mg

I would jab twice a week at least. Less aromatisation and fluctuations. I would feel a clear dip with cyp jabbed once a week. You should take an AI only if you feel the need for it. I deeply regret overusing AIs during my first cycles. 0.5mg eod is a lot. Way too much.

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1 hour ago, Jgsn said:

Yeah this, literally only reason. If I can get hold of Test E 250 then I’ll do 500 per week. 

Do you decide how many sausages you have for breakfast based on how many are in the pack?

Or do you just take the desired number from the pack as and when you want them?

Just curious :lol:

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All I will say is you are on the right track researching what you are doing. The fact that you can discuss this and not get completely lost when someone says something that challenges what you believe is a good indication you are learning as much as possible before jumping on and this is beneficial. In fact, it's actually critical. You'll get a lot of armchair experts who will get mad and throw a few jabs because you attack their very basic elementary knowledge of taking steroids. Don't worry though. This is just their over inflated fragile ego taking a battering because inside of them they believe being high on steroids equates to also being high on research, knowledge, facts and science. Just remember that just because this is a forum that is welcoming of discussing gear DOES NOT mean the people on here are experts. You'll find lots of people who confuse the fact that they are on a forum like this, and usually have high post counts, with actually knowing what they are talking about.

Stick to your studies. Find sources that credit scientific evidence with their conclusions. Seek advice from those who have genuinely extensive experience and not simply because they can put a syringe into their glutes every other day but because they also have spent far more time and effort learning about the drugs they are using. Again, there is a difference between the two examples mentioned, and the former will take no responsibility for his school boy errors while the latter will have given you correct advice in the first place.

How come you want to take Test C every 7 days? You would have much more stable blood levels taking it every 3 days than every 7. 7 days is sufficient and this is usually typical of some TRT cycles but for better stability every 3 days is recommended. You could split the injections into 200mg. This would be a bit tricky though as you would have to estimate 200mg in the barrel which if the dose per ml is not half of that you'll find hard. I'm on Test E and I take 150mg every 3 days, so 300mg weekly. My blood levels are far more stable and this is reflected in my daily life as I feel more stable too, no midweek crashes/blues. I was doing Test E 150mg once a week at one point and it would get to midweek and I would start feeling the crash. I did so because the drug eventually begins to leave the body and even though Test E has a longer ester than most this doesn't mean that you won't feel the gradual decrease in the hormone in your body as time progresses.

Also, I wouldn't be religious with the AI. Some days you may need it. Others you won't. It's not something that has to be baked into a definitive schedule. It's taken to remove sides from hormonal imbalances due to increased testosterone levels but just because you plan to take it every other day doesn't mean that's what your body needs. You might be able to fly through a week without taking an AI at all. The next week though you may need to take 0.5mg to keep estrogen down. It's not set in stone when you need to take AI. Actually taking AI when you don't need it is pretty unhealthy and can cause pretty serious side effects when continued for a prolonged period of time as your body needs to find it's balance and you are simply removing one thing in the hope of simply enjoying the other (testosterone) but this is not how it works. You should not be removing estrogen, you should be reducing it to tolerable levels and so that you do not find yourself dealing with the side effects as a result. Taking things too far will make you feel like sh*t and it's also bad for you inside and out.

Why Test C? Why not Test E? I ask with interest, not with anonimosity. The difference between the two are marginal and I read the reason why Test C is so popular is because in the US it is actively marketed as being the best compound with the best applications, but this isn't strictly true. Big pharma runs a racket in the US and around the world and spends millions on marketing particular drugs. It just so happens Test C is heavily marketed and therefore used more often. Test E is just as therapeutic when used in clinical settings and it's half life is not so different to cyp.

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40 minutes ago, daringhorse said:

All I will say is you are on the right track researching what you are doing. The fact that you can discuss this and not get completely lost when someone says something that challenges what you believe is a good indication you are learning as much as possible before jumping on and this is beneficial. In fact, it's actually critical. You'll get a lot of armchair experts who will get mad and throw a few jabs because you attack their very basic elementary knowledge of taking steroids. Don't worry though. This is just their over inflated fragile ego taking a battering because inside of them they believe being high on steroids equates to also being high on research, knowledge, facts and science. Just remember that just because this is a forum that is welcoming of discussing gear DOES NOT mean the people on here are experts. You'll find lots of people who confuse the fact that they are on a forum like this, and usually have high post counts, with actually knowing what they are talking about.

Stick to your studies. Find sources that credit scientific evidence with their conclusions. Seek advice from those who have genuinely extensive experience and not simply because they can put a syringe into their glutes every other day but because they also have spent far more time and effort learning about the drugs they are using. Again, there is a difference between the two examples mentioned, and the former will take no responsibility for his school boy errors while the latter will have given you correct advice in the first place.

How come you want to take Test C every 7 days? You would have much more stable blood levels taking it every 3 days than every 7. 7 days is sufficient and this is usually typical of some TRT cycles but for better stability every 3 days is recommended. You could split the injections into 200mg. This would be a bit tricky though as you would have to estimate 200mg in the barrel which if the dose per ml is not half of that you'll find hard. I'm on Test E and I take 150mg every 3 days, so 300mg weekly. My blood levels are far more stable and this is reflected in my daily life as I feel more stable too, no midweek crashes/blues. I was doing Test E 150mg once a week at one point and it would get to midweek and I would start feeling the crash. I did so because the drug eventually begins to leave the body and even though Test E has a longer ester than most this doesn't mean that you won't feel the gradual decrease in the hormone in your body as time progresses.

Also, I wouldn't be religious with the AI. Some days you may need it. Others you won't. It's not something that has to be baked into a definitive schedule. It's taken to remove sides from hormonal imbalances due to increased testosterone levels but just because you plan to take it every other day doesn't mean that's what your body needs. You might be able to fly through a week without taking an AI at all. The next week though you may need to take 0.5mg to keep estrogen down. It's not set in stone when you need to take AI. Actually taking AI when you don't need it is pretty unhealthy and can cause pretty serious side effects when continued for a prolonged period of time as your body needs to find it's balance and you are simply removing one thing in the hope of simply enjoying the other (testosterone) but this is not how it works. You should not be removing estrogen, you should be reducing it to tolerable levels and so that you do not find yourself dealing with the side effects as a result. Taking things too far will make you feel like sh*t and it's also bad for you inside and out.

Why Test C? Why not Test E? I ask with interest, not with anonimosity. The difference between the two are marginal and I read the reason why Test C is so popular is because in the US it is actively marketed as being the best compound with the best applications, but this isn't strictly true. Big pharma runs a racket in the US and around the world and spends millions on marketing particular drugs. It just so happens Test C is heavily marketed and therefore used more often. Test E is just as therapeutic when used in clinical settings and it's half life is not so different to cyp.

Interesring approach to estrogen control here

Edit: also interested to know how estimating 200mg in a syringe would be "tricky"?

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43 minutes ago, daringhorse said:

All I will say is you are on the right track researching what you are doing. The fact that you can discuss this and not get completely lost when someone says something that challenges what you believe is a good indication you are learning as much as possible before jumping on and this is beneficial. In fact, it's actually critical. You'll get a lot of armchair experts who will get mad and throw a few jabs because you attack their very basic elementary knowledge of taking steroids. Don't worry though. This is just their over inflated fragile ego taking a battering because inside of them they believe being high on steroids equates to also being high on research, knowledge, facts and science. Just remember that just because this is a forum that is welcoming of discussing gear DOES NOT mean the people on here are experts. You'll find lots of people who confuse the fact that they are on a forum like this, and usually have high post counts, with actually knowing what they are talking about.

Stick to your studies. Find sources that credit scientific evidence with their conclusions. Seek advice from those who have genuinely extensive experience and not simply because they can put a syringe into their glutes every other day but because they also have spent far more time and effort learning about the drugs they are using. Again, there is a difference between the two examples mentioned, and the former will take no responsibility for his school boy errors while the latter will have given you correct advice in the first place.

How come you want to take Test C every 7 days? You would have much more stable blood levels taking it every 3 days than every 7. 7 days is sufficient and this is usually typical of some TRT cycles but for better stability every 3 days is recommended. You could split the injections into 200mg. This would be a bit tricky though as you would have to estimate 200mg in the barrel which if the dose per ml is not half of that you'll find hard. I'm on Test E and I take 150mg every 3 days, so 300mg weekly. My blood levels are far more stable and this is reflected in my daily life as I feel more stable too, no midweek crashes/blues. I was doing Test E 150mg once a week at one point and it would get to midweek and I would start feeling the crash. I did so because the drug eventually begins to leave the body and even though Test E has a longer ester than most this doesn't mean that you won't feel the gradual decrease in the hormone in your body as time progresses.

Also, I wouldn't be religious with the AI. Some days you may need it. Others you won't. It's not something that has to be baked into a definitive schedule. It's taken to remove sides from hormonal imbalances due to increased testosterone levels but just because you plan to take it every other day doesn't mean that's what your body needs. You might be able to fly through a week without taking an AI at all. The next week though you may need to take 0.5mg to keep estrogen down. It's not set in stone when you need to take AI. Actually taking AI when you don't need it is pretty unhealthy and can cause pretty serious side effects when continued for a prolonged period of time as your body needs to find it's balance and you are simply removing one thing in the hope of simply enjoying the other (testosterone) but this is not how it works. You should not be removing estrogen, you should be reducing it to tolerable levels and so that you do not find yourself dealing with the side effects as a result. Taking things too far will make you feel like sh*t and it's also bad for you inside and out.

Why Test C? Why not Test E? I ask with interest, not with anonimosity. The difference between the two are marginal and I read the reason why Test C is so popular is because in the US it is actively marketed as being the best compound with the best applications, but this isn't strictly true. Big pharma runs a racket in the US and around the world and spends millions on marketing particular drugs. It just so happens Test C is heavily marketed and therefore used more often. Test E is just as therapeutic when used in clinical settings and it's half life is not so different to cyp.

So I’m not the only one who takes an ai as and when they feel then! I’ve always followed this approach. 
to op I wouldn’t even start the adex especially not from week 1. See how you get on first. You’ll find you probably won’t even need it. At least you’ll have it on hand tho

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2 minutes ago, Simon90 said:

So I’m not the only one who takes an ai as and when they feel then! I’ve always followed this approach. 
to op I wouldn’t even start the adex especially not from week 1. See how you get on first. You’ll find you probably won’t even need it. At least you’ll have it on hand tho

It's all well and good for someone who is able to tell when estrogen is high...

But terrible advice for a first time user...the best advice is not to use one, then add in a regular low dosed ai and then assess from there. Saying some days you may need an AI and some days you may not is massively over simplifying something that can be very difficult for alot of guys to get right

You're right tho, the majority probably won't need an AI on 400mg test...not as far as side effects go anyway

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12 hours ago, iron2000 said:

You don't need gear to be 250mg / ml to do 500mg per week. 1.25mg of 200mg/ml = 250mg

I would jab twice a week at least. Less aromatisation and fluctuations. I would feel a clear dip with cyp jabbed once a week. You should take an AI only if you feel the need for it. I deeply regret overusing AIs during my first cycles. 0.5mg eod is a lot. Way too much.

I did think this, but I then get 8x 1.25mg per vial as opposed to 10x 1mg, so I’d either be doing a 12 week or 16 week cycle to use all vials. Not a massive deal i know and if 500mg will make it more worthwhile then I’ll definitely consider that. Seems to be the dosage most people recommend too. 

Interesting to hear you suggest 2x per week, I thought because of the 8 day half life once would be fine and saves me pinning more than necessary. 

Been some really useful advice in this thread which has been very helpful. Still quite a bit to learn! 

Edit: just read above about the stability of bloods pinning twice per week which makes sense. 

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9 minutes ago, Jgsn said:

I did think this, but I then get 8x 1.25mg per vial as opposed to 10x 1mg, so I’d either be doing a 12 week or 16 week cycle to use all vials. Not a massive deal i know and if 500mg will make it more worthwhile then I’ll definitely consider that. Seems to be the dosage most people recommend too. 

Interesting to hear you suggest 2x per week, I thought because of the 8 day half life once would be fine and saves me pinning more than necessary. 

Been some really useful advice in this thread which has been very helpful. Still quite a bit to learn! 

Just pin the amount necessary. Don’t worry so much on not fully finishing a vial, it’s cheap enough that if you’ve got a bit left over at the end then it’s not the end of the world. 
 

You’d be better splitting injections to start with just to get used to injection technique and build some resilience up to it. Once you’ve done it for a while, then sure swap over to once a week.

Have you had your bloods taken? If this is your first cycle then it’s definitely worth getting done then at least you have a benchmark of where you want to get back to once you’ve carried out your PCT.

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1) get blood done so u have a health panel to get back to when your off 
2) don't use adex unless needed 
3) increase 12 weeks to 16-20 week
4) train and eat like a beast but dont think u can eat a f**k ton because your on cycle, you'll end up a fat f**k 

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3 hours ago, Jgsn said:

I did think this, but I then get 8x 1.25mg per vial as opposed to 10x 1mg, so I’d either be doing a 12 week or 16 week cycle to use all vials. Not a massive deal i know and if 500mg will make it more worthwhile then I’ll definitely consider that. Seems to be the dosage most people recommend too. 

Interesting to hear you suggest 2x per week, I thought because of the 8 day half life once would be fine and saves me pinning more than necessary. 

Been some really useful advice in this thread which has been very helpful. Still quite a bit to learn! 

Edit: just read above about the stability of bloods pinning twice per week which makes sense. 

It does sound like it makes sense mate

But in the vast, vast majority of cases totally unecessary bro science

As @Wildkidquite rightly said, split for first couple weeks to guage pip but after that once a week is fine

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