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MuscleP

Deca and NPP - use together?

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Hi guys,

Is it possible to start deca and NPP at the same time and then drop the NPP after a couple of weeks so you get the impact of the NPP quickly and then the deca kicks in a couple of weeks later?

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23 minutes ago, MuscleP said:

Hi guys,

Is it possible to start deca and NPP at the same time and then drop the NPP after a couple of weeks so you get the impact of the NPP quickly and then the deca kicks in a couple of weeks later?

Yes. But I'd personally just use the npp the whole cycle 

To get a decent kickstart from the npp you'll need to use for 3-4 weeks, by which time the amount of nandrolones you'll have in your system will be pretty high

All depends on how you respond to the compound...sides etc. But you can pin npp twice a week anyway so you wont have too many extra jabs just running that all the way through vs deca

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45 minutes ago, godsgifttoearth said:

Kick in times between esters is largely a placebo. You will be supraphysiological after a few days.

F1.large.jpg

This shows blood levels from one injection bro...there's a huge difference between this and the time it actually takes to see results

 

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25 minutes ago, stuey99 said:

This shows blood levels from one injection bro...there's a huge difference between this and the time it actually takes to see results

 

that has absolutely nothing to do with the ester. as soon as you're supraphysiological you start a process of adaptations that will at some point meet a threshold where the user notices it. depending on the user or the substance, they may have more advocacy that they notice the uptick sooner or only at the point where something more extreme happens, like maxing out glycogen upregulation, having a carb binge then seeing they're 3kg heavier the next day and pumped right up.

what people often mistake is the difference in total active compound that ester weights cause or slight differences in water retention by more lipophillic esters and compounds.

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2 minutes ago, godsgifttoearth said:

 as soon as you're supraphysiological you start a process of adaptations that will at some point meet a threshold where the user notices it. 

This is the part I'm talking about mate...the difference in "at some point" between long and short esters

As much as I love graphs, the important thing for me is when I start noticing results...which is why I pretty much always use short esters

 

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1 hour ago, stuey99 said:

This is the part I'm talking about mate...the difference in "at some point" between long and short esters

As much as I love graphs, the important thing for me is when I start noticing results...which is why I pretty much always use short esters

 

both are supraphysiological after a few days. steady state in your blood doesn't mean much if you're not past the threshold for adaptations, so steady state after a few days vs a few weeks doesn't do anything when both are supraphysiological. that threshold for adaptation is incredibly low, so the difference between esters is simply more of the substance with a lighter ester.

Think of it like an SSRI. stuff is peaked in your bloodsteam within a few hours, takes weeks and weeks for a physiological change to take place and taking more doesn't make those changes come any quicker, just the magnitude of the final adaptation as the substance doesn't upregulate the rate at which all the various biological processes happen, that are then required to make those adaptations take place.

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5 minutes ago, godsgifttoearth said:

both are supraphysiological after a few days. steady state in your blood doesn't mean much if you're not past the threshold for adaptations, so steady state after a few days vs a few weeks doesn't do anything when both are supraphysiological. that threshold for adaptation is incredibly low, so the difference between esters is simply more of the substance with a lighter ester.

Think of it like an SSRI. stuff is peaked in your bloodsteam within a few hours, takes weeks and weeks for a physiological change to take place and taking more doesn't make those changes come any quicker, just the magnitude of the final adaptation as the substance doesn't upregulate the rate at which all the various biological processes happen, that are then required to make those adaptations take place.

I don't know about all that mate...way too many big words for me lol.

I'm not much into the scientific side of things alot of the time in all honesty,  I base my decisions on my experience (with anything...not just aas) rather than what science tells me I "should" be experiencing

 

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1 hour ago, stuey99 said:

I don't know about all that mate...way too many big words for me lol.

I'm not much into the scientific side of things alot of the time in all honesty,  I base my decisions on my experience (with anything...not just aas) rather than what science tells me I "should" be experiencing

 

I’m the same bro, f**k the science. Bill gates is giving us all autism with vaccinations and the Earth is flat 

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4 hours ago, godsgifttoearth said:

Kick in times between esters is largely a placebo. You will be supraphysiological after a few days.

 

Wonder why the peak and area under curve from 4ml is less than 1ml of Deca? 

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27 minutes ago, drwae said:

I’m the same bro, f**k the science. Bill gates is giving us all autism with vaccinations and the Earth is flat 

The science is useless if it doesn't actually translate to real life

Show me a graph saying a compound is active all day fuckin long if ya like lol...but if I see no benefit from the compound yet then the graph is useless :lol:

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1 hour ago, stuey99 said:

The science is useless if it doesn't actually translate to real life

Show me a graph saying a compound is active all day fuckin long if ya like lol...but if I see no benefit from the compound yet then the graph is useless :lol:

You don't have any frame of reference to critique the science. You dont have the ability to measure myofibrillar hypertrophy, protein synthesis or degradation rates etc etc. All you have to go off is how it makes you feel, a set of scales if you own some and the mirror. All of which is subjective and will vary person to person.

The idea that it takes something 3 weeks to "kick in" or less for a shorter ester is based on those subjective observations only. That doesn't make them correct.

A steroid acts on a receptor, the receptor is present in a lot of tissue other than the taeget tissue. The AR is responsible for several downstream processes that all add up to size, strength,  fat loss. The speed at which the substance is released is irrelevant as it does not influence the final downstream expression only total saturation. 600 of pure nandrolone ends up the same, save minor differences in water retention based on your BF.  Its not like taking an analgesic and the interaction with the cannabinoid recptor directly causes a reduction in pain.

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4 minutes ago, godsgifttoearth said:

You don't have any frame of reference to critique the science. You dont have the ability to measure myofibrillar hypertrophy, protein synthesis or degradation rates etc etc. All you have to go off is how it makes you feel, a set of scales if you own some and the mirror. All of which is subjective and will vary person to person.

The idea that it takes something 3 weeks to "kick in" or less for a shorter ester is based on those subjective observations only. That doesn't make them correct.

A steroid acts on a receptor, the receptor is present in a lot of tissue other than the taeget tissue. The AR is responsible for several downstream processes that all add up to size, strength,  fat loss. The speed at which the substance is released is irrelevant as it does not influence the final downstream expression only total saturation. 600 of pure nandrolone ends up the same, save minor differences in water retention based on your BF.  Its not like taking an analgesic and the interaction with the cannabinoid recptor directly causes a reduction in pain.

I'm not questioning the science...I'm saying it's not important to me...which is my choice mate right? 

But if your choice is different then that's absolutely fair enough

I don't actually own a set of scales at the moment funnily enough...I do have a mirror tho, I use it for shaving  :thumb

Your comments kinda boggle me mate, it's like reading a bloody dictionary lol...do you talk like this in real life?

 

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25 minutes ago, stuey99 said:

I'm not questioning the science...I'm saying it's not important to me...which is my choice mate right? 

But if your choice is different then that's absolutely fair enough

I don't actually own a set of scales at the moment funnily enough...I do have a mirror tho, I use it for shaving  :thumb

Your comments kinda boggle me mate, it's like reading a bloody dictionary lol...do you talk like this in real life?

 

His posts are good and are aimed at educating, so everyone has a fuller understanding of how things actually work in the body.

We need more of that and less of the drivel. 
 

If the users of this forum don’t continually improve their knowledge, all we are left with is a collection of non-sensical fools blindly taking drugs based on ‘bro’ advice.

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On 10/07/2020 at 7:54 PM, Bensif said:

His posts are good and are aimed at educating, so everyone has a fuller understanding of how things actually work in the body.

We need more of that and less of the drivel. 
 

If the users of this forum don’t continually improve their knowledge, all we are left with is a collection of non-sensical fools blindly taking drugs based on ‘bro’ advice.

Oh come on...yes it's good that people on here ( in fact several of which are on this thread including yourself ) do seem to have some genuine knowledge and understanding and are willing to share it ( even if it can get a bit "shut up and listen to what I know" ) but anyone who would use an internet forum as their sole point of reference in relation to using gear is foolish in the extreme.

With the greatest of respect there are plenty of significantly more authoritative resources out there ( llewellyn et al / academic papers ) that maybe a tad drier but present much of what you need to know in good detail.

EDIT: Just remembered the @swole troll series of articles on first-cycle / steroid info...they are certainly worth a read also.

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