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Tricky

Test and tren ratio

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I said before due to sleep, reflux and sex drive issues I wasn’t going to run tren but I’ve considered one final push this tile low test and high tren. Question is how low test can I go. Should I use tren A? i will be using triumph when they launch the new range as I’ve been on their stuff several years and no issues so I’ve no reason to doubt the new stuff. 
 

150mg test e? 
 

350mg tren A (0.5ml eod) or 400mg tren e? 
 

I will run 50mg winny throughout. Is mast needed and beneficial if so what dose? 
 

I will be in a deficit and cutting while I expect to add some LBM and strength due to period of inactivity 

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I’ve been taking 300mg Test E, 250mg Tren E, 25g Mast E weekly along with 20mg SD per day.

I’d been feeling great throughout but hit full saturation the past week and there are definite changes to my mood.  Training is through the roof but I’m definitely becoming withdrawn and more irritable, sex drive decreased having been through the roof previously.

I’ve also had some digestion issues the past week or so - bloating, gas and a bit of lethargy.

Could be the Test/Tren ratio, could just be a standard reaction to 19 Nors or could be my E2 playing up.  I’ve added a small amount of Adex to see if that helps and to be fair 0.25mg did seem to have an immediate impact on my mood yesterday although this could obviously be Placebo.  Will monitor this week and consider lowering the Test dosage  next week if things continue.

I really think you need to adjust as you go with these things mate - start sensibly based on previous personal experience if possible then tweak as you go.

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i've done tren with low test before usually between 150-200, does what is expected cos its basically tren and tren is like a freight train.

testosterone has certain anti depressant effects [1], so based on prior experience and how you felt on the 19nors, you might want higher test to offset the mental fuckery that tren and deca cause. if you were otherwise OK on tren and didn't experience any of the following at levels that otherwise affected your relationships, work, life etc then stick with the lower test.

  • Disconnected and very fast (racing) thoughts
  • Grandiose beliefs
  • Inappropriate elation or euphoria
  • Inappropriate irritability
  • Inappropriate social behavior
  • Increased sexual desire
  • Increased talking speed or volume
  • Markedly increased energy
  • Poor judgment
  • A decreased need for sleep due to high energy

If you got most of them, as most do, then higher test might help, ideally as high as it will go without needing an AI.

The reflux issue is made with by certain food. tomato and tren has me feeling like im belching acid all the time. didn't find it anywhere near as bad when i used tren and the vertical diet tho.

[1]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0941950019300119#:~:text=Background,followed by improvement of mood.

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25 minutes ago, Ironman TS said:

I’ve been taking 300mg Test E, 250mg Tren E, 25g Mast E weekly along with 20mg SD per day.

I’d been feeling great throughout but hit full saturation the past week and there are definite changes to my mood.  Training is through the roof but I’m definitely becoming withdrawn and more irritable, sex drive decreased having been through the roof previously.

I’ve also had some digestion issues the past week or so - bloating, gas and a bit of lethargy.

Could be the Test/Tren ratio, could just be a standard reaction to 19 Nors or could be my E2 playing up.  I’ve added a small amount of Adex to see if that helps and to be fair 0.25mg did seem to have an immediate impact on my mood yesterday although this could obviously be Placebo.  Will monitor this week and consider lowering the Test dosage  next week if things continue.

I really think you need to adjust as you go with these things mate - start sensibly based on previous personal experience if possible then tweak as you go.

I’m with a new partner and I do not want sex to suffer last time I was on 300mg tren but rest around 450mg if I remember right and my sleep was terrible, reflux horrible and no desire for sex which is what I want to avoid so I’m thinking 150mg test and use tren A so I can quit it and let it clear if I run into the same issues 

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6 minutes ago, Tricky said:

I’m with a new partner and I do not want sex to suffer last time I was on 300mg tren but rest around 450mg if I remember right and my sleep was terrible, reflux horrible and no desire for sex which is what I want to avoid so I’m thinking 150mg test and use tren A so I can quit it and let it clear if I run into the same issues 

Have you ran mast with tren before? I find it always helps keep my drive high, without it my sex drive can suffer. I also found to much caber made sex worse. 

 

Im currently on 500 test 300 tren e 250 mast e and it’s fantastic so far. Far better than my previous blast of 400 test 600 tren. 

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I think the last time I ran Test/Tren was 500mg Pharma Sustanon and 450mg Tren Hex (maybe 300mg) and I don’t recall any issues whatsoever.

Definitely noticing subtle mood changes now though - maybe exacerbated by the current environment of working from home and the general monotony of being locked down, etc...  Goldfish bowl environment not really ideal.

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4 minutes ago, dtmiscool said:

Have you ran mast with tren before? I find it always helps keep my drive high, without it my sex drive can suffer. I also found to much caber made sex worse. 

 

Im currently on 500 test 300 tren e 250 mast e and it’s fantastic so far. Far better than my previous blast of 400 test 600 tren. 

What dose caber are you running. I didn’t run caber the last outing with tren that may be the issue? 
 

I’ll add mast in then at 400mg just unsure to use short esters or not for both. 

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7 minutes ago, Tricky said:

What dose caber are you running. I didn’t run caber the last outing with tren that may be the issue? 
 

I’ll add mast in then at 400mg just unsure to use short esters or not for both. 

I only rub caber as I feel I need it nowadays. I use to run 0.25mg a week but it was effecting my libido. 

 

Now I probably run 0.25mg every month or so. Just to stop a constant rise in prolactin. It’s strong stuff. 

 

Mast was the best thing I ever added to help (proviron also if you don’t want to inject more). 

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1 hour ago, Ironman TS said:

Thoughts on Mast dosage/ratio vs Tren to offset sides lads?

i'd  match your test 1:1 or 2:1 at most. so if you're on 200mg test, 200 mast but no higher than 400 otherwise you might get the added downer of low estrogen sides added to the joys of 19nors.

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1 hour ago, godsgifttoearth said:

i'd  match your test 1:1 or 2:1 at most. so if you're on 200mg test, 200 mast but no higher than 400 otherwise you might get the added downer of low estrogen sides added to the joys of 19nors.

So plan is 

150mg Test E

350mg Tren A 

what mast dose? Mast e? 
 

50mg winny 

all for 8-10 weeks depending on condition 

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1 hour ago, Tricky said:

So plan is 

150mg Test E

350mg Tren A 

what mast dose? Mast e? 
 

50mg winny 

all for 8-10 weeks depending on condition 

if you're running winstrol at the same time, i'd probably not even bother with masteron. if you want to have some on hand to try, use mast prop and pin like 50mg with the tren ace.

winstrol and masteron both reduce estrogen like symptoms for me, so if you're on both and low test, you might feel like dog s**t.

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6 hours ago, Ironman TS said:

Thoughts on Mast dosage/ratio vs Tren to offset sides lads?

I’ve always found you don’t need a lot of mast to help. I usually stick with half my test dose for mast. 

 

So for 500mg of test that’s 250mg of mast. 

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8 hours ago, Tricky said:

I said before due to sleep, reflux and sex drive issues I wasn’t going to run tren but I’ve considered one final push this tile low test and high tren. Question is how low test can I go. Should I use tren A? i will be using triumph when they launch the new range as I’ve been on their stuff several years and no issues so I’ve no reason to doubt the new stuff. 
 

150mg test e? 
 

350mg tren A (0.5ml eod) or 400mg tren e? 
 

I will run 50mg winny throughout. Is mast needed and beneficial if so what dose? 
 

I will be in a deficit and cutting while I expect to add some LBM and strength due to period of inactivity 

It's not about the ratio mate...not IMO anyway

The 150mg test you're planning is ideal. This means no need for an ai, so most likely no issue with libido

The one big thing you're missing tho is mast. In my experience, although winnie is a dht, mast works better for minimising tren sides...although the winnie ontop of that will help even more

I'd recommend 150 test e/350 mast e/350 tren ace (which would be 100mg eod mate not 50mg)

Along with the winnie you'd actually be running the exact doses that I used on my most side effect free tren cycle...which was 1ml TM rip250 eod and 50mg TM winnie ed

Although iirc I used 50mg prov ed as well

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19 minutes ago, stuey99 said:

It's not about the ratio mate...not IMO anyway

The 150mg test you're planning is ideal. This means no need for an ai, so most likely no issue with libido

The one big thing you're missing tho is mast. In my experience, although winnie is a dht, mast works better for minimising tren sides...although the winnie ontop of that will help even more

I'd recommend 150 test e/350 mast e/350 tren ace (which would be 100mg eod mate not 50mg)

Along with the winnie you'd actually be running the exact doses that I used on my most side effect free tren cycle...which was 1ml TM rip250 eod and 50mg TM winnie ed

Although iirc I used 50mg prov ed as well

I’ve been on 175mg test all year no AI and no issues with libido. So I’m sure dropping to 150mg won’t change that. I will incorporate mast along with the winny and tren A if after few weeks I have issues that are counterproductive I’ll drop the tren A. I had thought of t3 and clen but I cannot seem to source clen and t3 increases my hunger so might have to go without this cut 

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8 minutes ago, Tricky said:

I’ve been on 175mg test all year no AI and no issues with libido. So I’m sure dropping to 150mg won’t change that. I will incorporate mast along with the winny and tren A if after few weeks I have issues that are counterproductive I’ll drop the tren A. I had thought of t3 and clen but I cannot seem to source clen and t3 increases my hunger so might have to go without this cut 

If ya wanna be cautious mate, start at 70mg eod and if you're ok after a couple weeks increase

Tbh, you're cutting, so even 245mg a week is decent

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Currently running 500mg sustanon and 450mg tren A, along with .5 caber (original Dostinex) 2 twice a week.

Libido is pretty much out of control, strength is increasing steadily as I'm gradually reducing calories due to cutting.

Bf seems to be reducing although my weight is stabilising at dead on 18 stone....see, i always knew it was possible to turn fat into  muscle!!!

Sleep is becoming an issue as is my general mood, so ill be reducing the tree to 300mg this week.

This is by far the lightest cycle I've run in many many years and I'm actually really impressed with the results. 

Im starting to think you guys werent lying when you said 'less' is 'more'.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, js77 said:

Currently running 500mg sustanon and 450mg tren A, along with .5 caber (original Dostinex) 2 twice a week.

Libido is pretty much out of control, strength is increasing steadily as I'm gradually reducing calories due to cutting.

Bf seems to be reducing although my weight is stabilising at dead on 18 stone....see, i always knew it was possible to turn fat into  muscle!!!

Sleep is becoming an issue as is my general mood, so ill be reducing the tree to 300mg this week.

This is by far the lightest cycle I've run in many many years and I'm actually really impressed with the results. 

Im starting to think you guys werent lying when you said 'less' is 'more'.

 

 

300mg tren with a decent nights sleep will be WAY more effective than 450mg with a s**t nights sleep mate

Keep an eye on the caber tho bro. Very few will need the dose you're running. Most need half that at most. Just thought it was worth mentioning, especially as you're reducing the tren dose.

IMO any increase in negative sides from here on in will most likely be because you're running too much caber

 

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8 minutes ago, stuey99 said:

300mg tren with a decent nights sleep will be WAY more effective than 450mg with a s**t nights sleep mate

Keep an eye on the caber tho bro. Very few will need the dose you're running. Most need half that at most. Just thought it was worth mentioning, especially as you're reducing the tren dose.

IMO any increase in negative sides from here on in will most likely be because you're running too much caber

 

Ill 100% reduce the tren.....i can't believe I'm actually discussing reducing doses!!.....is this what happens when you get old?

I had no idea about the Caber. I lactate like an absolute cvnt and that dose seems to be the only thing that stops it. It doesnt seem to matter what I'm running either. I can literally spray it across the room!

As i said my libido is sky high, so what negative effect do you think the Caber could be potentially cause? 

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15 minutes ago, js77 said:

Ill 100% reduce the tren.....i can't believe I'm actually discussing reducing doses!!.....is this what happens when you get old?

I had no idea about the Caber. I lactate like an absolute cvnt and that dose seems to be the only thing that stops it. It doesnt seem to matter what I'm running either. I can literally spray it across the room!

As i said my libido is sky high, so what negative effect do you think the Caber could be potentially cause? 

It's what happens when you realise diet and sleep are more beneficial than high doses mate (I believe I may have mentioned this once or twice in the past lol)

As long as libido is good, I wouldn't worry...although I suspect you'd prob do just as well on 0.25mg twice a week. But if its not broke dont fix it

If you drop to 300mg tren and caber dose is too high you'll possibly just start feeling a bit s**t and libido may suffer. Like I said, if you're reducing tren, any decrease in mood or libido from then will IMO be because you're taking too much caber for that dose of tren

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14 hours ago, stuey99 said:

It's what happens when you realise diet and sleep are more beneficial than high doses mate (I believe I may have mentioned this once or twice in the past lol)

As long as libido is good, I wouldn't worry...although I suspect you'd prob do just as well on 0.25mg twice a week. But if its not broke dont fix it

If you drop to 300mg tren and caber dose is too high you'll possibly just start feeling a bit s**t and libido may suffer. Like I said, if you're reducing tren, any decrease in mood or libido from then will IMO be because you're taking too much caber for that dose of tren

So you think it’s just simply about getting the balance right with the tren and Caber?

The the difference with caber and an ai, in ONE respect, is that it’s a dopamine agonist, so one of its side effects is ‘hyper-sexuality’. This effect will happen whether prolactin levels are high or not, so I’m not sure the reduction of tren will reduce libido when usingvcaber...in fact I think it actually may increase libido.

An ai on the other hand will make pretty much anyone want to end their life if E is already low.

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9 minutes ago, js77 said:

So you think it’s just simply about getting the balance right with the tren and Caber?

The the difference with caber and an ai, in ONE respect, is that it’s a dopamine agonist, so one of its side effects is ‘hyper-sexuality’. This effect will happen whether prolactin levels are high or not, so I’m not sure the reduction of tren will reduce libido when usingvcaber...in fact I think it actually may increase libido.

An ai on the other hand will make pretty much anyone want to end their life if E is already low.

An effect of tren is hyper sexuality, not caber. Caber merely controls prolactin, and if prolactin is too high or too low then libido will more than likely take a hit

Low prolactin is just as bad as high prolactin (im most cases)

Caber should really only be necessary if estrogen is cobtrolled properly...although again, there will be exceptions

For most, the answer is to keep estrogen in range on a tren cycle,  negating the need for Caber, as prolactin generally only rises in a high estrogen envoronment

There are however some guys who do better running a lower dose ai, allowing estrogen to rise a little, and then controlling any resulting rise in prolactin with a low dose of Caber 

This is the balancing act, and although the rule of thumb is the first approach, we all respond differently...and there is of course the fortunate few who'll be fine on no AI and no caber at all

But yes, generally if someone does need caber, they will most likely need less if they reduce their tren dosage

0.5mg caber twice a week, despite being the dosage parroted all over the internet, will be too much for most users. A more common and realistic dose would usually be 0.25mg caber once or twice a week (if it's needed at all)

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2 hours ago, stuey99 said:

An effect of tren is hyper sexuality, not caber. Caber merely controls prolactin, and if prolactin is too high or too low then libido will more than likely take a hit

Low prolactin is just as bad as high prolactin (im most cases)

Caber should really only be necessary if estrogen is cobtrolled properly...although again, there will be exceptions

For most, the answer is to keep estrogen in range on a tren cycle,  negating the need for Caber, as prolactin generally only rises in a high estrogen envoronment

There are however some guys who do better running a lower dose ai, allowing estrogen to rise a little, and then controlling any resulting rise in prolactin with a low dose of Caber 

This is the balancing act, and although the rule of thumb is the first approach, we all respond differently...and there is of course the fortunate few who'll be fine on no AI and no caber at all

But yes, generally if someone does need caber, they will most likely need less if they reduce their tren dosage

0.5mg caber twice a week, despite being the dosage parroted all over the internet, will be too much for most users. A more common and realistic dose would usually be 0.25mg caber once or twice a week (if it's needed at all)

100% with you on the tren...its far more androgenic than test so libido could be massively increased as long as E is kept in check.

I get Teva and Pfizer caber on script and one of the stated contraindications is hypersexuality, which is due to its dopamine agonist property. Its given to people with Parkinsons and apparently its a common  site to see old boys in their 90's shuffling around their old people home with a raging harden......my ex-father-in-law was on this med ( he was tranny and I'm being 100% serious...we even found a tube of Vagisil in amongst his makeup when we cleared his house) was constantly being told off for wanking in front of nurses...

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44 minutes ago, js77 said:

100% with you on the tren...its far more androgenic than test so libido could be massively increased as long as E is kept in check.

I get Teva and Pfizer caber on script and one of the stated contraindications is hypersexuality, which is due to its dopamine agonist property. Its given to people with Parkinsons and apparently its a common  site to see old boys in their 90's shuffling around their old people home with a raging harden......my ex-father-in-law was on this med ( he was tranny and I'm being 100% serious...we even found a tube of Vagisil in amongst his makeup when we cleared his house) was constantly being told off for wanking in front of nurses...

Yes, but if you take more than you need and crash prolactin, the effects will be about as far from hylersexuality as you can get mate...trust me

And trannies tend to be hypersexual anyway (erm...so I'm told lol)

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