Jump to content
BAbrams

Settle for Testo or find Cypionate?

Recommended Posts

Hi there, 

I am a 27 year old male and have been on TRT for the last 9 or so months over in the US. I recently relocated to the UK (London) and had run into some trouble with continuing my treatment. I had been on Testosterone Cypionate and was responding very well.  However, the urologist i saw in the UK said that cypionate wasn't available in the UK and I could either use gels or long acting injections. The Docs in America always told me to forget Gels, and a lot of online reading has supported this claim (the the Dr is a fan). I know it is possible to get Cyp from third party providers (Optimale, Balance My Hormone) but I wonder how trustworthy they are, and how much extra money they are taking?

So now I am on Testogel, and quite frankly I think I am facing a psychological barrier owing to my American indoctrination.  

Do you think the Gels to be significantly inferior to Cyp? Is it real so bad? My biggest fear is giving the gels a few weeks or a month to work only to return to some kind of injection, by which stage I will have to wait around 8 weeks for any symptoms to disappear.  

(I know it is possible to get propionate and other short acting shots  in London but I haven't really considered this).  

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BAbrams said:

Hi there, 

I am a 27 year old male and have been on TRT for the last 9 or so months over in the US. I recently relocated to the UK (London) and had run into some trouble with continuing my treatment. I had been on Testosterone Cypionate and was responding very well.  However, the urologist i saw in the UK said that cypionate wasn't available in the UK and I could either use gels or long acting injections. The Docs in America always told me to forget Gels, and a lot of online reading has supported this claim (the the Dr is a fan). I know it is possible to get Cyp from third party providers (Optimale, Balance My Hormone) but I wonder how trustworthy they are, and how much extra money they are taking?

So now I am on Testogel, and quite frankly I think I am facing a psychological barrier owing to my American indoctrination.  

Do you think the Gels to be significantly inferior to Cyp? Is it real so bad? My biggest fear is giving the gels a few weeks or a month to work only to return to some kind of injection, by which stage I will have to wait around 8 weeks for any symptoms to disappear.  

(I know it is possible to get propionate and other short acting shots  in London but I haven't really considered this).  

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! 

 

Cyp and Test E are pretty similar compounds so why wouldn’t you look at switching protocol to that, arguably that’s going to be best for you in regards to stability I would say. You're very unlikely to get offered test E on the NHS unless your levels are extremely low. Consensus is NHS aren’t great in regards to TRT treatment in general. 
 

If you read through some of the other threads in this TRT section you’ll read all about what people here in the UK are doing. The men’s health clinic, leger clinic, balance my hormones, optimale - all reputable TRT providers. Difference is in service and cost. 
 

I’ve no experience with gels myself but My TRT doctor didn’t recommend them from the start and stated they’re inferior to injectables. Based on what I’ve read/learnt/seen on here I’d agree with that but like I said I have no experience with them myself. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s probably unlikely that you’d notice a difference between Enanthate, Cypionate or Sustanon. The NHS would generally prescribe Nebido but it’s far from optimal for many reasons that I won’t go into here. 

I’ve read that the lack of availability of testosterone esters in the U.K. is down to pharmaceutical licensing but I’ve never really researched the full ins and outs of it.

Ultimately the NHS route is time consuming and limited. Private companies such as BMH practice daylight robbery. Far too many fakes around to trust illicit suppliers of pharmaceutical teat. 

That leaves UGL products and there are plenty to choose from that are reputable. Sort you own bloods out with a private provider. It all depends on how risk averse you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sasnak said:

It’s probably unlikely that you’d notice a difference between Enanthate, Cypionate or Sustanon. The NHS would generally prescribe Nebido but it’s far from optimal for many reasons that I won’t go into here. 

I’ve read that the lack of availability of testosterone esters in the U.K. is down to pharmaceutical licensing but I’ve never really researched the full ins and outs of it.

Ultimately the NHS route is time consuming and limited. Private companies such as BMH practice daylight robbery. Far too many fakes around to trust illicit suppliers of pharmaceutical teat. 

That leaves UGL products and there are plenty to choose from that are reputable. Sort you own bloods out with a private provider. It all depends on how risk averse you are.

Thanks for this. I was under the impression that the NHS wouldn't help in the slightest. My test. was around 2.45 when I got it tested before starting the meds. i wonder if that's considered low enough. (I cant remember if that was free or total, and it was done in the US...Anyway!) 

Perhaps psychologically speaking if i was going the UGL route, i'd rather do it with a private company...which in itself seems a bit sketchy.

I will try and get the doc to switch to Enthate/Sustanon if i can. Tbh I am glad that these options exist, he had made it sound like it was either gels or the long term shot which I didn't want.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pez189 said:

Cyp and Test E are pretty similar compounds so why wouldn’t you look at switching protocol to that, arguably that’s going to be best for you in regards to stability I would say. You're very unlikely to get offered test E on the NHS unless your levels are extremely low. Consensus is NHS aren’t great in regards to TRT treatment in general. 
 

If you read through some of the other threads in this TRT section you’ll read all about what people here in the UK are doing. The men’s health clinic, leger clinic, balance my hormones, optimale - all reputable TRT providers. Difference is in service and cost. 
 

I’ve no experience with gels myself but My TRT doctor didn’t recommend them from the start and stated they’re inferior to injectables. Based on what I’ve read/learnt/seen on here I’d agree with that but like I said I have no experience with them myself. 

Thank you for this! I will try and get the doc to proscribe Test E! Would the dosing frequency be the same? I was looking into Balance my Hormones and Optimal but it dawned on me that they may well not be reputable. I had seen little online related to user experience of the companies (aside from a few google reviews). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, BAbrams said:

Hi there, 

I am a 27 year old male and have been on TRT for the last 9 or so months over in the US. I recently relocated to the UK (London) and had run into some trouble with continuing my treatment. I had been on Testosterone Cypionate and was responding very well.  However, the urologist i saw in the UK said that cypionate wasn't available in the UK and I could either use gels or long acting injections. The Docs in America always told me to forget Gels, and a lot of online reading has supported this claim (the the Dr is a fan). I know it is possible to get Cyp from third party providers (Optimale, Balance My Hormone) but I wonder how trustworthy they are, and how much extra money they are taking?

So now I am on Testogel, and quite frankly I think I am facing a psychological barrier owing to my American indoctrination.  

Do you think the Gels to be significantly inferior to Cyp? Is it real so bad? My biggest fear is giving the gels a few weeks or a month to work only to return to some kind of injection, by which stage I will have to wait around 8 weeks for any symptoms to disappear.  

(I know it is possible to get propionate and other short acting shots  in London but I haven't really considered this).  

Any insight would be greatly appreciated! 

 

 

Just switch to Enanthate. There's no real-world difference in the pharmacokinetics between it and cypionate.

5ed00fe730656_TestEvsC.thumb.png.3c5bcdccc4bc98c563cf7207d7a20e25.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went private with "The Mens Health Clinic" in Poole after getting fed up with being treated as an idiot even tho I seemed to be more up to date that the NHS endo I saw..... 

Dr Rob is the mutts nuts mate ! He treats you like a human being and is willing to treat everyone as an individual AND he can prescribe Cypionate.... If you can afford to go private I cannot recommend him highly enough - actually it's not as expensive as you might think tho higher than the NHS lol 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, paul_in_slough said:

I went private with "The Mens Health Clinic" in Poole after getting fed up with being treated as an idiot even tho I seemed to be more up to date that the NHS endo I saw..... 

Dr Rob is the mutts nuts mate ! He treats you like a human being and is willing to treat everyone as an individual AND he can prescribe Cypionate.... If you can afford to go private I cannot recommend him highly enough - actually it's not as expensive as you might think tho higher than the NHS lol 

I wish I could go there....I spoke to them and the Doc wants a face-to-face consult but I cant get there form London at the moment :( They seem pretty awesome though! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/06/2020 at 9:39 PM, BAbrams said:

Thank you for this! I will try and get the doc to proscribe Test E! Would the dosing frequency be the same? I was looking into Balance my Hormones and Optimal but it dawned on me that they may well not be reputable. I had seen little online related to user experience of the companies (aside from a few google reviews). 

I have no idea haha. You’d have to get bloodwork done to see where you’re at and discuss that with your doctor at whichever clinic you decide to go with.  Both of those companies are legit clinics, both are pricey AF though. TMHC have a great reputation, still pricey though. Some clinics have changed how they’re doing consultations because of covid etc, surprised they haven’t  

There’s lots of talk on here, in the TRT section and on other forums regarding UK clinics. You’re unlikely to see reviews just on google. I’m very happy with my clinic, I’ve never left a review anywhere for example, maybe I should. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are quite a few options available in the UK as far as private companies are concerned , as others have mentioned above.  

As said the  NHS route is a waste of time unless your test is literally through the floor. And even then there will be many hoops you will need to jump through the get a prescription. 

At the end of the day it comes down to two things, how far are you willing to travel for your initial consultation and how much you are you willing to spend. 

All clinics will require a initial consultation which involves a one on one consult including a blood test. 

A good clinic will tailor the TRT therapy to your individual situation, and monitor you periodically. You will usually be provided with a script that will last 12 months and be expected to have your bloods monitored every 6 months. 

Private clinics will provide you with pharmaceutical compounds. The most commonly prescribed in the UK are Sustanon or Test Enathate. And as of late, Test Cypionate through the Men’s Health Clinic. 

If you have been using Test Cypionate then Enathate is your next best option. Both are virtually the same as far as Ester with the only real difference being the carrier oil. 

You will not really notice a difference in changing compounds.   

Sustanon while a great compound, will most likely create issues with mood due to half lives of the 4 esters. Resulting in highs and lows regarding mood / plasma levels . 

Speaking personally, I have been on TRT for 14 years, and have found that both Cypionate / Enathate work best for my body and the way I respond to it. 

That being said everyone is different. Some respond better to Nebido, some Sustanon, some TestoGel and so on.  

Only you will know what works best for you. Your blood work  will provide you with a true understanding of what will work best for you regarding a TRT dose  & injection frequency . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Seppuku71 said:

Diy ugl?

For the first 12 years yes. Bloods every 6 months and monitoring it myself. The last 2 years I have been going through a TRT clinic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, J78 said:

For the first 12 years yes. Bloods every 6 months and monitoring it myself. The last 2 years I have been going through a TRT clinic. 

Interesting.  What made you want to use a clinic after already sourcing your own etc for so long?  And 14 years on, do you think trt has been good for you?  Hope you don't mind the questions, i've been considering trt now for years and i just like to hear peoples experiences with it, ie what it's done for them etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, J78 said:

For the first 12 years yes. Bloods every 6 months and monitoring it myself. The last 2 years I have been going through a TRT clinic. 

Yeah I’m also interested to hear why you did this as most people do it the other way around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, BAbrams said:

I wish I could go there....I spoke to them and the Doc wants a face-to-face consult but I cant get there form London at the moment :( They seem pretty awesome though! 

@ BABrams I live in Windsor chap just outside London and it was about 90mins at the spd limit - he's a young chap with a good sense of humour & pretty much the best Doc I've seen so it's worth popping down esp now when the roads are quieter if you can.....

@ Pez189 I think it work out at about £100/mth for HCG & Test - its the "becoming a member" bit that costs the money, but once its over cost drops

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, paul_in_slough said:

@ Pez189 I think it work out at about £100/mth for HCG & Test - its the "becoming a member" bit that costs the money, but once its over cost drops

Yeah those initial consultation Fees and then ongoing blood test costs always put me off. Each to their own but money’s a big factor for this stuff.  I’m paying about £25 month, all in for my TRT. Not currently doing HCG but even if I was it wouldn’t Be anywhere near £100 month. As I’ve said before, they might be the best clinic around but you certainly Have to pay for it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Pez189 said:

Yeah those initial consultation Fees and then ongoing blood test costs always put me off. Each to their own but money’s a big factor for this stuff.  I’m paying about £25 month, all in for my TRT. Not currently doing HCG but even if I was it wouldn’t Be anywhere near £100 month. As I’ve said before, they might be the best clinic around but you certainly Have to pay for it. 

Tell me about it.... I'm doing ot every month to pay for it and would love to pay what you are, but gyms are closed & sourcing a good reliable source of T is hard....

I'm planning on emigrating once my house gets sold and it's available in good chemists in Thailand so i'll be sweet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Seppuku71 said:

Interesting.  What made you want to use a clinic after already sourcing your own etc for so long?  And 14 years on, do you think trt has been good for you?  Hope you don't mind the questions, i've been considering trt now for years and i just like to hear peoples experiences with it, ie what it's done for them etc.

 

16 hours ago, Pez189 said:

Yeah I’m also interested to hear why you did this as most people do it the other way around. 

It was a personal decision because of a couple of reasons. Firstly when I turned 40 I decided there were a few additional steps I wanted to take on top of my usual routine to make sure I was continuing to go in the right direction regarding my TRT & health.  1- See a specialist regarding my TRT protocol 2 - See a cardiologist and get a EchoCardiogram, 3 -  Get a chest X-ray, 4 - Have a complete review of my blood panel including a PLAC test, 5  - Get a Cardiac Calcium Score done. I wanted to have a expert opinion on where I’ve come from and where I’m  going, so to speak. It wasn’t due to health issues that I went to see a specialist.  Secondly as I’m sure most of you know, getting correctly dosed UGL gear is a challenge within itself. Some will be bang on some will be a little over ( very rare ) and some under dosed. While this isn’t so much of a issue during a blast, it is far more important when maintaining precise TRT levels. Also regarding the ever changing situation  in this country with legalities etc I wanted to make sure I would always have a legitimate source of Test for my TRT. Even though I actually still currently have 2 yrs worth of SG Cyp in reserve. One can never be too prepared. 
Fortunately all my tests came back normal. The calcium test this December is just being done out of curiosity for myself. It wasn’t recommended by the Cardiologist. As you have probably realised by now I have a bit of ocd regarding my health. 
I’ve been lifting now for 25 yrs and don’t intend to stop. It’s just as I’m getting older I’m a little wiser and a lot more cautious. 
Do I regret starting AAS use earlier in my life which in turn led to a lifelong commitment to TRT .... yes. But like a lot of things in life, it is what it is, and we are where we are. I don’t have a Delorean to go back in time unfortunately. Fortunately so far I’ve been very lucky and can only contribute that to  strict eating plan over the last few decades, time on = time off & no overly excessive dosages, good genetics, a myriad of vitamins, monitoring my health  and  exercise everyday with cardio,
What would my advice be for someone considering starting TRT...... Think it through very carefully.  Do you really need it? Are the effects of low test affecting your life, mood, wellbeing, sex life etc. What are your health markers like. Or do you require it like myself because of the years of  prior AAS use resulting in hypogonadism ? It is a lifelong commitment and needs to be coupled with a healthy diet, regular exercise and preferably no smoking, drinking or rec drug use for ultimate longevity.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, J78 said:

 

It was a personal decision because of a couple of reasons. Firstly when I turned 40 I decided there were a few additional steps I wanted to take on top of my usual routine to make sure I was continuing to go in the right direction regarding my TRT & health.  1- See a specialist regarding my TRT protocol 2 - See a cardiologist and get a EchoCardiogram, 3 -  Get a chest X-ray, 4 - Have a complete review of my blood panel including a PLAC test, 5  - Get a  Calcium Test.    I wanted to have a Expert opinion on where I’ve come from and where I’m  going so to speak. It wasn’t due to health issues that I went to see a specialist.  Secondly as most of you I’m sure know, getting correctly dosed UGL gear is a challenge within itself. Some will be bang on some will be a little over ( very rare ) and some under dosed. While this isn’t so much of a issue during a blast, it is far more important when maintaining precise TRT levels. Also regarding the ever changing situation  in this country with legalities etc I wanted to make sure I would always have a legitimate source of Test for my TRT. Even though I actually still have 2 yrs worth of SG Cyp in reserve. 
All my test me came back normal. The calcium test this December is just being done out of curiosity for myself. It wasn’t recommended. As you have probably realised by now I have a bit of ocd regarding my health. 
I’ve been lifting now for 25 yrs and don’t intend to stop. It’s just as I’m getting older I’m a little wiser and a lot more cautious. 
Do I regret starting AAS use earlier in my life which in turn led to a lifelong commitment to TRT .... yes. But like a lot of things in life, it is what it is, and we are where we are. I don’t have a Delorean to go back in time unfortunately. Fortunately so far I’ve been very lucky and can only contribute that to  strict eating plan over the last few decades, time on = time off, no excessive dosages. good genetics, myriads of vitamins, monitoring my health  and constant exercise with cardio,
What would my advice be for someone considering starting TRT...... Think it through very carefully.  Do you really need it? Are the effects of low test affecting your life, mood, wellbeing, sex life etc. What are your health markers like. Or do you require it like myself because of the years of  prior AAS use resulting in hypogonadism ? It is a lifelong commitment and needs to be coupled with a healthy diet, regular exercise and preferably no smoking, drinking or rec drug use for ultimate longevity.  

Thank you, that was a very interesting read.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2020 at 12:21 PM, J78 said:

There are quite a few options available in the UK as far as private companies are concerned , as others have mentioned above.  

As said the  NHS route is a waste of time unless your test is literally through the floor. And even then there will be many hoops you will need to jump through the get a prescription. 

At the end of the day it comes down to two things, how far are you willing to travel for your initial consultation and how much you are you willing to spend. 

All clinics will require a initial consultation which involves a one on one consult including a blood test. 

A good clinic will tailor the TRT therapy to your individual situation, and monitor you periodically. You will usually be provided with a script that will last 12 months and be expected to have your bloods monitored every 6 months. 

Private clinics will provide you with pharmaceutical compounds. The most commonly prescribed in the UK are Sustanon or Test Enathate. And as of late, Test Cypionate through the Men’s Health Clinic. 

If you have been using Test Cypionate then Enathate is your next best option. Both are virtually the same as far as Ester with the only real difference being the carrier oil. 

You will not really notice a difference in changing compounds.   

Sustanon while a great compound, will most likely create issues with mood due to half lives of the 4 esters. Resulting in highs and lows regarding mood / plasma levels . 

Speaking personally, I have been on TRT for 14 years, and have found that both Cypionate / Enathate work best for my body and the way I respond to it. 

That being said everyone is different. Some respond better to Nebido, some Sustanon, some TestoGel and so on.  

Only you will know what works best for you. Your blood work  will provide you with a true understanding of what will work best for you regarding a TRT dose  & injection frequency . 

Appreciate the clarity here - thanks so much for this! I find it interesting that you say some people actually respond better to TestoGes; I have only really heard negative things being saied abot  it! Ethanate sounds like it will be a good bet then! Glad you found a regime that works for you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, BAbrams said:

Appreciate the clarity here - thanks so much for this! I find it interesting that you say some people actually respond better to TestoGes; I have only really heard negative things being saied abot  it! Ethanate sounds like it will be a good bet then! Glad you found a regime that works for you!

It is a small minority that have success with Testogel. In counties like Australia where I’m originally from it’s all that’s available for TRT. 
My brother for example gets on very well with it, where as I even though I’m from the same gene pool cannot get on with it at all. Where all different. 
It’s taken many years of research and trial and error for me to find a protocol that works for me. Each individuals response will be different due to there genetic makeup. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2020 at 8:30 PM, J78 said:

It is a small minority that have success with Testogel. In counties like Australia where I’m originally from it’s all that’s available for TRT. 
My brother for example gets on very well with it, where as I even though I’m from the same gene pool cannot get on with it at all. Where all different. 
It’s taken many years of research and trial and error for me to find a protocol that works for me. Each individuals response will be different due to there genetic makeup. 
 

I wonder if it comes down to how it is applied too? I actually want to make a topic about this; but I wonder if some people have a way of applying the cream such that more gets absorbed, irrespective of the genetics etc. Did you ever try applying lotion an hour after you applied the cream/does the brother?I am finding that I get a fair bit of white patches/streaks too which isnt ideal :/ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, BAbrams said:

I wonder if it comes down to how it is applied too? I actually want to make a topic about this; but I wonder if some people have a way of applying the cream such that more gets absorbed, irrespective of the genetics etc. Did you ever try applying lotion an hour after you applied the cream/does the brother?I am finding that I get a fair bit of white patches/streaks too which isnt ideal :/ 

Everyone will metabolise Testosterone differently. I used to apply it to my upper arm / shoulder on dry clean skin after a shower. Clean dry skin helps absorption.  My brothers application process  was the same. I didn’t like Testogel because it had  to be applied daily. I preferred using Enathate or Cyp and  injecting it every 5 days. 
I never experienced  any white patches / streaks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×