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JohhnyC

Did anyone try short term trading?

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Now being UKM I know this will attract all the bull-shitters claiming they sit on a beach making millions, so leaving that aside, has anyone tried this for a living or a serious hobby?

(Not talking about investing , i.e. buying stock in expectation they will grow )

Its hard to get to the bottom of the all the crap by youtube hipsters claiming they have some strategy and you can buy it for 100 quid, or people trying to sound smart rhyming off pointless catchphrases like "by the dip", "don't catch a falling knife", "set up a trading plan" without any concrete details or proof  . Its like saying " If you want to learn to fly a plane, make sure you don't crash into a mountain"

Real feedback most appreciated  dudes

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

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1 hour ago, BLUE(UK) said:

@IronJohnDoe is doing well, I’m sure he can explain it. 

Man, I’m no guru and to be fair call me selfish but I do strongly believe that if you have a system that works you wouldn’t really share it or teach it for a few bucks like this self proclaimed “social medias gurus” 

I mean why in hell would you share or teach for a few bucks a system that if it works for you could make you between 10 to 100 times more than you’d ever achieve by charging for teaching it?

I’m no millionaire or billionaire (yet) but during this pandemic where I lost my job and government washed his balls about it

(I’m talking about Spanish government a utter shame really)

I managed to pay my rent and bills and keep investing, soon I’ll expand that and yes, I do have my own system

(providing that NO system is 100% guarantee you money)

and so far is working most of the times, but I didn’t got any free meals

(I’m NOT having a go at OP just saying)

I did enter in a couple of platforms which actually allow you to play with also fake money so to familiarise yourself with it and then just researched big names and their systems and key words so to understand at least the basic terminology that helped further my research, to top it off I had a friend that was already doing it but I came at him with specifics questions that were born from a lot of hours of personal research, therefore he didn’t mind helping me.

Then I like commodities for the daily bucks but I’ve started to look at some companies and the impacts that the news and generally what happens in the world politically can have on their stock values which in my experience takes a little longer to gain from BUT the money return can be considerably more.

I guess OP is referring to buying and selling commodities multiples times a day in order to make decent daily returns which is good to keep you afloat but again in my experience stock buying for longer terms can provide you with way larger amounts, I like to do both.

Of course as soon as I said it some of the “sad no life crew” started claiming that I’ve never played in the stock market neither traded commodities based on their word but is ok as long as my landlady “believes” the “magical” rent money that I transfer her monthly thanks to learning a bit of that and my bank too I’m pretty happy with it and of course the “bashing crew” can join in too and express their delusion claiming that I don’t lift, I don’t trade and whatever else they need to feel good about their sad life.

 

A bit bitter today, I see...:rolleyes:

 

P.S. To be fair world news can help to trying predict the waves of commodities too not just companies shares, although without a system I don’t think it will suffice

 

Peace.

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I do it, but like any job, you have to study a lot.  Of course you can listen to other people and put your money in their hands, but a good one will be expensive, and a cheap one will just lose your money.

It's not easy, and not a get rich quick thing.

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eToro is decent for noobies 

Copy function allows you to automatically replicate trades of successful traders. The system works fairly well.

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thanks guys, 

I worked in the trading floor for 15+ years and (or was)I regulated by FCA to do controlled functions (i.e. clients portfolios), Passed exams.  I am pretty strong on quantitative finance , portfolio optimization, derivatives, hedging etc Fundamental analysis I could improve on admittedly 

As for short term equity trading I am not entirely convinced but open minded but would like to see real feedback.   No one wants to ever admit they lost cash and wasted year trying it and quit.

Its seems like a lot is stacked against you, from commissions, spreads, margin,  especially on options and derivatives. 

 

@IronJohnDoe

Cheers man, agree on your thoughts, you can join mentor programs from real traders from banks who do check out  (I recognize the names from my time) but they charge around 15k for a few Skype lessons and the odd look in at your portfolio to see if you are making errors so not cheap. 

Honesty hour boys, can you make money at it.? No shame in saying you don't, Most of us in banking all  copped it big time when the markets in 2008 and that was including the Traders. My boss lost 500K that year  from banking stocks, he came from Merrill Lynch, I lost about 60k myself, Banks portfolios got f**ked aswell, I remember well when the traders were asked to liquidate their portfolios due to margin calls ,trading floor was silent.

3 hours ago, IronJohnDoe said:

I guess OP is referring to buying and selling commodities multiples times a day in order to make decent daily returns which is good to keep you afloat but again in my experience stock buying for longer terms can provide you with way larger amounts, I like to do both.

 

Not daily trading. I think that's a mugs game and certainly all the decent gurus suggest its.  I mean 10-20 trades a month , short term holdings, looking at correlation, volatility ,15 stocks portfolio 

I am hit or miss thus far to be honest but not at it long enough to develop a decent pattern 

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4 hours ago, JohhnyC said:

thanks guys, 

I worked in the trading floor for 15+ years and (or was)I regulated by FCA to do controlled functions (i.e. clients portfolios), Passed exams.  I am pretty strong on quantitative finance , portfolio optimization, derivatives, hedging etc Fundamental analysis I could improve on admittedly 

As for short term equity trading I am not entirely convinced but open minded but would like to see real feedback.   No one wants to ever admit they lost cash and wasted year trying it and quit.

Its seems like a lot is stacked against you, from commissions, spreads, margin,  especially on options and derivatives. 

 

@IronJohnDoe

Cheers man, agree on your thoughts, you can join mentor programs from real traders from banks who do check out  (I recognize the names from my time) but they charge around 15k for a few Skype lessons and the odd look in at your portfolio to see if you are making errors so not cheap. 

Honesty hour boys, can you make money at it.? No shame in saying you don't, Most of us in banking all  copped it big time when the markets in 2008 and that was including the Traders. My boss lost 500K that year  from banking stocks, he came from Merrill Lynch, I lost about 60k myself, Banks portfolios got f**ked aswell, I remember well when the traders were asked to liquidate their portfolios due to margin calls ,trading floor was silent.

 

Not daily trading. I think that's a mugs game and certainly all the decent gurus suggest its.  I mean 10-20 trades a month , short term holdings, looking at correlation, volatility ,15 stocks portfolio 

I am hit or miss thus far to be honest but not at it long enough to develop a decent pattern 

eToro is nice as mentioned even just for the news alerts, I’d suggest you personally to have some news apps that gives you alerts on news such as investing.com (I check often their economic calendar I found it very useful) also yahoo finance and there are more. I personally used +500 and I find myself good with it, money? Yes I’m making something but nothing to write home about, my focus is more the “mug game” (I like how you called it srs although I did developed a system to turn it from a mug game to a analysed strategy with a reduced losses percentage) and I buy while a commodity is rising from a low point trying to sell while is going up, of course I do have contingencies if it goes down again after I bought but that would be my system and I wouldn’t go into specifics.

I also look at certain companies that get (pretty much every year so is almost a circle that repeat itself) influenced heavily from US-EU-Russia-China politicals armwrestling,

I hold their stock for a longer period of time and then sell at (hopefully) the considerably elevated turnover that they generally do at a certain time of the year, again I could go more specific, but you’d appreciate that I’d rather stay vague as I’m seriously trying to make more than just a living from that.

I’m close to have some investors that are happy to put capitals and lock it for a set period of time for a set % on the amount invested in a year window.

I (at the moment) am making enough for paying my bills (rent, phone, metro card, gym, barber, going out without going crazy but life in Spain is cheap about that) so a decent start but again, I’m not talking millions for the moment (although I wish hahaha) 

IMO the risks are elevated during this instability, but also the profits and with certain commodities falling down historical minimals there are plenty of windows of opportunity, although I think that is not anymore the invest put a price alert and do something else, unfortunately due to many disastrous days in the market, IMO is more dynamic meaning that you gotta be looking at it actively and ready to sell for damage control in case of a heavy drop.

I had some losses, but it was at the start due to a lack of a system and a lack of experience knowledge.

EDIT: On my first run I was earning and then I’ve lost my entire equity in a 21hours greed battle (not enough margin) that I could have still close even but I was greedy and got punished with it. I nearly convinced myself to drop everything, but I instead did more research, played with fake money (+500 gives you a demo platform with 40k of fake money to play with) I developed a system, waited for some cash and then started again, now I still have some days that closes in the red (you can’t earn every single day) but overall is going decently.

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https://chatwithtraders.com/podcast/

Check out these podcasts. Don't know what the later ones are like but the first few, he interviews successful traders from different ilks. Swing, Scalp, Penny Stocks etc. Even has one interviewing the guy who first game up with card counting in casinos. (that one's not about trading but very interesting story)

Tells the stories of how people got into it what they failed on and how they improved. Most of the stories follow a fairly similar story. Got into it, in a bull market thought they were the s**t because they made money, then screwed it all up before learning how to actually trade. 

As someone has already said I'd ignore the youtube videos showing there systems, as why are they trying to sell a successful system when they could just make money doing that instead, if everyone copies your style, you margins will get less. I would use youtube to look at one's just explaining how to read certain indicators, not the ones telling you which one's to use. Also worth looking up a book by John J Murphy, you'll be able to find an e copy.

I assume you're already aware of tradingview website?

 

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12 hours ago, Denied said:

Got into it, in a bull market thought they were the s**t because they made money, then screwed it all up before learning how to actually trade. 

Geez that’s pretty much my story too:lol:, I love how you summarised it in one sentence, tried, thought I’m the s**t, screwed up, learnt, started for real.

I’ll have a look at the link, seems interesting

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@IronJohnDoe

cheers man, yeah I don't mean that day trading is a mugs game end of, its more that its unwise for the inexperienced to start messing around with it as you have to think fast and be sitting in front of you computer all day. I  have come across a lot of folks that tried it and every one lost a lot, then start chasing after losses and compounded the problem . I think its for the experienced traders only

I was OK thus far but my losses have been silly and basically due to lack of discipline and emotional trading . .  Mind you  my portfolios is basically investing rather than trading however I want to run about 30% of it on actually trading (days to weeks, i.e. swing trades), using no more that  2% on any one position using trailing stops and modest profit targets

My plan is to portfolio optimization for long term investing with infrequent re-balencing. I use Matlab for that 

Trading: fundamental and technical analysis. I have come around to the idea that TA is an important  tool and shouldn't be dismissed, especially after  reading Dr. Alexander Elder book, "The new trading for a living". Its a pretty good book and has some excellent advice. H'es pretty clear its not an easy job and you have to study and work hard at it/

Some opportunities seem to be ripe like zoom. Its got an P/E ratio of 2000, compared to Amazon of 114. To me that's represents a big shorting opportunity.

Q: Whats the best dealers for shorting stocks anyway? CFD /  spread bet. I use IG but  like dealers I can find, their overnight charges are BS and really eat into profits over weeks 

 

On 25/05/2020 at 1:08 AM, Denied said:

https://chatwithtraders.com/podcast/

Check out these podcasts. Don't know what the later ones are like but the first few, he interviews successful traders from different ilks. Swing, Scalp, Penny Stocks etc. Even has one interviewing the guy who first game up with card counting in casinos. (that one's not about trading but very interesting story)

Tells the stories of how people got into it what they failed on and how they improved. Most of the stories follow a fairly similar story. Got into it, in a bull market thought they were the s**t because they made money, then screwed it all up before learning how to actually trade. 

As someone has already said I'd ignore the youtube videos showing there systems, as why are they trying to sell a successful system when they could just make money doing that instead, if everyone copies your style, you margins will get less. I would use youtube to look at one's just explaining how to read certain indicators, not the ones telling you which one's to use. Also worth looking up a book by John J Murphy, you'll be able to find an e copy.

I assume you're already aware of tradingview website?

 

cheers man. websites I use are Marketwatch.com  (for company info), tipranks.com (for potential opportunities ).  I have trading view bookmarked but not spend much time at it. The problem I find with most of this stuff is that there are a million signals showing opportunities but when they don't pan out they are quickly forgotten about and everyone looks to the next one

Will look for a copy of John J Murphy book, 

 

My aim is very modest, that is simply to break even by the end of the year, but learned a whole lot. 

 

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