Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
swole troll

Genetics reign supreme

Recommended Posts

I've touched on this subject before in the "Stop looking for the secret... It's not that difficult" thread but saw a recent post regarding why a certain poster wasn't looking the way his favorite instagrammers looked and thought I'd touch on the subject of genetics again. 

Why don't you look like your favorite bodybuilder, mens physique, magazine model, instagrammer ect 

lighting? angles? pump? drugs? 
in a lot of cases most are tweaking all of these variables in their favor (many over doing) and still coming up short

the reason being is genetics. And unfortunately the card you've been dealt isn't always the one you desired (rarely is in some form or another)  

"You can't coach a St. Bernard to win against a Greyhound on the racetrack"

that is no matter how hard you try, disregard your health, disregard every other aspect of your life and focus exclusively on your goals you will only excel as far as your genetics allow.

Hell I'm a prime example of this. Highly passionate about powerlifting, cursed with long femurs, long torso and disproportionately short arms, arguably the worse possible proportions for powerlifting but this doesn't stop me trying to be the best I can at it because I just enjoy progressing and knowing that every PB I hit is the strongest I've ever been at that lift.

Genetic short coming is no reason to not give it your all as even if you had the genetics you think you desire there is no happily ever after with lifting

I've not met a single person that said they were 100% content;

you bench 2 plates, you want to bench 3
you reach 10% body fat, you want to reach 8% 
you weigh 220lb with abs, you want to weigh 240lb with abs

so just learn to enjoy the journey as you will be improving year on year if you do everything right.

Alternatively just quit so then you have a weak mind to match your s**t genetics :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Entirely disagree.

Specific look? Sure, that's individual (although many individuals will have that exact look).

Effort, dedication, diet and training.

The "level" is attainable for pretty much everyone.

Will all of us look like Arnold? No.

Can all of us achieve similar results? Yes (but unlikely as it takes a level of effort and obsession most are too lazy for).

Saying genetics is such a bro thing to say, sorry bro, as we don't have any clue of how genetics actually impact it.

We've mapped the human genome, but we're still pretty much blind when it comes to genetics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, simonboyle said:

Entirely disagree.

Specific look? Sure, that's individual (although many individuals will have that exact look).

Effort, dedication, diet and training.

The "level" is attainable for pretty much everyone.

Will all of us look like Arnold? No.

Can all of us achieve similar results? Yes (but unlikely as it takes a level of effort and obsession most are too lazy for).

Saying genetics is such a bro thing to say, sorry bro, as we don't have any clue of how genetics actually impact it.

We've mapped the human genome, but we're still pretty much blind when it comes to genetics.

genetics meaning genetically different

it's a sweeping term yes but anyone that believe's 'you can achieve anything you want so long as you put in your best effort' is a fool 

this is what separates the elite from the rest, that's why there is winners in the Olympia, professional football players, NFL ect 

millions are trying their hardest, very few are succeeding and through no lack of effort, drugs or sacrifice.

At the elite level they're all trying their damnedest as are many of the amateurs and still not achieving their goals 
and your explanation is effort, dedication, diet and training? sorry bro but you're either clutching onto false hope or just wrong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, swole troll said:

genetics meaning genetically different

it's a sweeping term yes but anyone that believe's 'you can achieve anything you want so long as you put in your best effort' is a fool 

this is what separates the elite from the rest, that's why there is winners in the Olympia, professional football players, NFL ect 

millions are trying their hardest, very few are succeeding and through no lack of effort, drugs or sacrifice.

At the elite level they're all trying their damnedest as are many of the amateurs and still not achieving their goals 
and your explanation is effort, dedication, diet and training? sorry bro but you're either clutching onto false hope or just wrong

Then that I agree with.

Just sick of the "genetics bro".

Totally agree.

I'll never be an NBA superstar.

I'll never be 7'2" either.

And yes.

Can they achieve the best? No. The best of the best are very limited.

But that doesn't apply to the majority and is just used as an excuse.

And how will they ever know if they are that 1% unless they put in the time effort dedication, diet and training.

No one can tell in advance. So saying it's the limiting factor is partly true. But none of us can ever tell unless we do what those 1% do and put in the same time and effort.

And as to the NFL etc, true, but then you have to also account for the non genetically great, the walk one, the ones who put the effort and time in and became some of the best.

Steven Nash (congenital spine defect, became one of the greatest point guards in the NBA, through work ethic and dedication, can't say he was genetically elite, as he clearly wasn't) Buggsy Mogues? 

See how saying "genetics" isn't the entire answer.

How do you determine, without breaking down the genetic code of each individual which ones are there because of the work and obsession and which ones are there due to inherent talent?

You can't 

And there's plenty of examples, like the ones above, to disprove or at least counter the "genetics" argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, swole troll said:

genetics meaning genetically different

it's a sweeping term yes but anyone that believe's 'you can achieve anything you want so long as you put in your best effort' is a fool 

this is what separates the elite from the rest, that's why there is winners in the Olympia, professional football players, NFL ect 

millions are trying their hardest, very few are succeeding and through no lack of effort, drugs or sacrifice.

At the elite level they're all trying their damnedest as are many of the amateurs and still not achieving their goals 
and your explanation is effort, dedication, diet and training? sorry bro but you're either clutching onto false hope or just wrong

And no, they're really not.

There are no shortage of failure stories at the elite level due to laziness and lack of drive, matched by the amount of stories of those who lacked the needed "genetics" but succeeded through obsession and effort, and not taking no for an answer.

YouTube "NFL walk ons" for a counter point to your posts.

I'm not saying everyone can be anything they want, that's dumb. But saying genetics alone determine it isn't true either.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

23 minutes ago, simonboyle said:

Then that I agree with.

Just sick of the "genetics bro".

Totally agree.

I'll never be an NBA superstar.

I'll never be 7'2" either.

And yes.

Can they achieve the best? No. The best of the best are very limited.

But that doesn't apply to the majority and is just used as an excuse.

And how will they ever know if they are that 1% unless they put in the time effort dedication, diet and training.

No one can tell in advance. So saying it's the limiting factor is partly true. But none of us can ever tell unless we do what those 1% do and put in the same time and effort.

And as to the NFL etc, true, but then you have to also account for the non genetically great, the walk one, the ones who put the effort and time in and became some of the best.

Steven Nash (congenital spine defect, became one of the greatest point guards in the NBA, through work ethic and dedication, can't say he was genetically elite, as he clearly wasn't) Buggsy Mogues? 

See how saying "genetics" isn't the entire answer.

How do you determine, without breaking down the genetic code of each individual which ones are there because of the work and obsession and which ones are there due to inherent talent?

You can't 

And there's plenty of examples, like the ones above, to disprove or at least counter the "genetics" argument.

it's clear there's been some misunderstanding on both our parts.

to clarify I do agree with you that there are people that play the genetics card and or take a boat load of drugs to try and make up for their lacking efforts in other areas of development

however (and this is open to debate) I do believe there is a large portion of seemingly dedicated gym goers that really are giving it their all (bar quitting their job and sleeping all day between workouts) eating well balanced and goal oriented to the clock, training their balls off and knowing when to hold back, taking PEDs (often erring on the side of too much) yet still arn't as impressive looking as their input year after year after year 

I know several people like this in real life like this that I've spoken to at length and they really give it as much as they can yet still don't carry a look twice physique when in a hoody despite wanting that freak factor more than anything and putting in the graft. 

their muscle inserts, muscle belly fullness, ability to synthesis new tissue, MPS response to training is clearly not equal to others I've known that eat pretty s**t / just hit their protein, train hard and haphazardly take a bit of gear and explode with full and aesthetic muscles 

for some, all the will in the world wont make up for that kind of genetic response to either or training, nutrition, PEDs.

I did try and caveat ITT and that other thread I commented in that genetics on the whole should be put completely out of mind unless it is to remind yourself that you ARE improving year after year provided you keep putting in the effort, some are just more genetically gifted than others and respond better to all aspects of strength and hypertrophy adaption.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, swole troll said:

 

it's clear there's been some misunderstanding on both our parts.

to clarify I do agree with you that there are people that play the genetics card and or take a boat load of drugs to try and make up for their lacking efforts in other areas of development

however (and this is open to debate) I do believe there is a large portion of seemingly dedicated gym goers that really are giving it their all (bar quitting their job and sleeping all day between workouts) eating well balanced and goal oriented to the clock, training their balls off and knowing when to hold back, taking PEDs (often erring on the side of too much) yet still arn't as impressive looking as their input year after year after year 

I know several people like this in real life like this that I've spoken to at length and they really give it as much as they can yet still don't carry a look twice physique when in a hoody despite wanting that freak factor more than anything and putting in the graft. 

their muscle inserts, muscle belly fullness, ability to synthesis new tissue, MPS response to training is clearly not equal to others I've known that eat pretty s**t / just hit their protein, train hard and haphazardly take a bit of gear and explode with full and aesthetic muscles 

for some, all the will in the world wont make up for that kind of genetic response to either or training, nutrition, PEDs.

I did try and caveat ITT and that other thread I commented in that genetics on the whole should be put completely out of mind unless it is to remind yourself that you ARE improving year after year provided you keep putting in the effort, some are just more genetically gifted than others and respond better to all aspects of strength and hypertrophy adaption.  

 

I'd agree. But I'd suggest that those that you believe that are giving their all probably aren't.

Same way that overweight people claim they've tried every diet and don't eat a lot.

People lie. And most take gear expecting it to do the work for them.

I'm of the opinion those people, if taken out of their lives and put in a study type environment, without the option of slacking etc, would hit those goals quickly.

The studies would support this too.

Every study on PEDs in a controlled environment show this. They may not all get exactly the same results, but they're within a margin of error.

And people can look like they're putting the effort in, but without seeing their day to day life, seeing their calories and macros, and actually seeing their training progress (increasing overload, intensity etc) it's not really valid.

You must know as well as I do plenty of people on gear who stil leat the samez haven't increased intensity or weights or anything, yet complain the gears crap etc.

 

And it's all a discussion, mate.

Were all better for discussing our views.

I'm enjoying it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't basic genetics account for why when young school age some people are just better physically. They run faster jump higher ext. In the same way some are better academically and can do math or spell easier? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sean m said:

Wouldn't basic genetics account for why when young school age some people are just better physically. They run faster jump higher ext. In the same way some are better academically and can do math or spell easier? 

as discussed it's a sweeping statement but it just means the stars have aligned for that individual to excel at their chosen endevor 

and just because someone is the top of their game it doesn't mean they had an apparent advantage from the start 

for instance this is Dorian Yates at 13 

0JYsvMK.jpg

hardly looks like someone you'd tell "you should get into bodybuilding, you'll go far" 

but just in the case of bodybuilding the term 'genetics' is mostly covering 

ability to digest and utilize large amounts of food 
speed of which you are able to synthesize new muscle 
drug tolerance from both a health perspective and side effects like gyno, acne, bloat ect 
strength levels and response to training
muscle bellies and insertions 

arguably work ethic but this is largely just down to your willingness and desire
and most come up short, hindered by some or all of the above. 

this isn't to say you can't improve or go really far from your start point 
it's just that what separates the norms from the genetic supreme is the bodily response to that effort / stimulus.

if you simply cannot eat 5-6-7-8000 calories without being unable to digest it or vomiting then you are held back genetically by this attribute 

if you gain a poor ratio of muscle to fat then it's this attribute hindering your yearly muscle gain (casing point, Luke Sandoe has only been training for 10 years) 

if you take thousands of mg of gear and your BP goes through the roof and you get crippling bloat that hinders your training and sleep / recovery then this is a genetic hindrance for being competitive at the elite level 

and so on 

it's just a limiter that stops you being on the Olympia stage or WSM podium despite all the will and effort in the world and it has become quite in vogue to claim everyone is half assing it but this really isn't the case

most are giving it damn near their all within the limitations of paying their bills and supporting their family yet still don't look as freakish as one might expect but again genetics are what dictate the return on investment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He looks better at 13 than a lot on here after a test, tren & dbol cycle!

On a serious note though you're right, he doesn't look like a freak by any means, especially when you compare to others in a similar era who in the mid teens were built like adults. 

There is some variation, but there's no denying  there are always exceptions to the rules who are just blessed - two current examples in my book are Calum Von Moger who spends his days eating junk and minimal calories, a lot of the time training at 80% (from people who know him) but clearly responds to AAS coupled with good genetics (granted as a human he's a bit of a sausage)

The other side of the coin is 'Andrew Jacked' he has everything sorted and has been training for years, but genetically he is pretty much perfect and even without gear would be bigger than most using AAS with everything in check. 

As you have alluded to many times in the past though ST, majority of people don't get anywhere near their genetic limits before trying AAS let alone a consistent diet and training routine - therefore never really find out how far their bodies can go - most people say they struggle to consume 3,000 calories and whinge about eating and their lifts stalling all the time , but then the very next conversation they are talking about upping drugs, it has taken me nearly two years to decipher what protein, carb and fat sources work for me in terms of digestion which has easily allowed me to consume another 1,000 calories daily from whole foods rather than just saying 'I get bloated, must be allergic to this and that, damn it I can't eat large amounts of foods'

Either way there's no denying that genetics are what separate the good from the very best, but also no denying that the majority of people don't get to their genetic potential through a lack of education and application and therefore give up and use it as an excuse and that many could do a lot, lot better with everything else in hand but that takes time, a lot of it and in this day and age that's not an option so it seems. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×