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Dreamcard

About to start TRT next week

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Hello guys, I decided to start TRT next week as I can't solve my libido and erection problems for a very long time now. 
I will post my diet, supplementation here and what I tried so far and it didnt help. If you have any other suggestion before I pull the trigger next week I'm willing to hear. Pllease excuse my long post!

PDE5 inhibitors couldn't help, I tried pt 141 (bremelanotide) as well with no effect. I supplement regularly high doses of aswagandha, yohimbine, vitamin D, magnesium oxide, vit b complex and vit c, eat a calorie surplus diet with lots of fat (less pufa), don't smoke/drink and don't do drugs. 
My protein and fat sources are whole eggs, whey protein,  beef, chicken fillet, tuna fish, cottage cheese, avocados, whole coconut, olive oil, pumpkin and sesame seeds, peanut butter, my carb sources are fruits in the morning and around the gym (orange, apple, ginger, bananas), I eat a lot of fiber (broccoli, spinach, carrots, cabbage), brown rice, whole grains. 

I'm 30y old, natty all my life, train since my 16's. 6"2 (190cm) and about 230lb (104kg) atm. I train 6 times weekly and do HIIT cardio (boxing and rope jumping) on my rest days.
I don't feel any fatigue or lack of motivation, I pack muscle and loose weight easily, literally I have no signs of low T except for libido and poor erections. 
This is my form atm, I'm few pounds above my ideal weight but not obese definitely (pic in the end of text).

 

This is why I delayed TRT for so long, but it looks impossible for me to fix it naturally.
I think my problems with libido/erections started few years ago when I was on keto diet for far too long - entire summer. I literally didn't eat any carbs at all, except on cheat meals days, every 10 days.
My form was amazing back then, but I was extremely fatigued, there was no life or joy in me. I was like a skeleton. 
Might be wrong, but think it was the time when everything started. Guess I fecked up my hormones big time then forever.

These are my latest results:

Testosterone : 12,70 nmol/L   (5.54-25.20)
Free Testosterone: 12.10 pg/mL   (7-22.7)
Estradiol : 36.4 pg/ml (0-56)
SHBG : 22 (13-71)
FSH : 5.7 (0.7 - 11)
LH : 2.69 (0.8 - 7.6)
Albumin : 47 (35-50)
Prolactin :  284 (53-360)
T3 total : 1.4 (1.3-2.6)
s-TSH : 3.670 (0.400 - 4000)
T3 total : 1.4 

Cholesterol and lipids are in range so I didn't post them here. 
I intend to check DHT as well as I never done it and I read on this very forum DHT can be responsible for weak erections and low libido in general.
My thyroid hormones and prolactin were much lower at one point (TSH close to 1.000) and prolactin around 60 when I was on T4 hormone and bromocriptine, but I didn't feel any relief with with better ranges so I dropped them (In fact, I felt worse back then). 
Of course, I will repeat my blood work before I start TRT.

I already mentioned that I live in one south-eastern shithole country in the Europe - So far I have changed 4 endocrinologists and 3 or 4 urologists and none of them wanted even to discuss my reasons for TRT. They all glance at my results, telling me 'They are in range or within the range' and that I'm in fantastic shape and the problem is in my head.
I have also visited cardiologist to check my heart and it is good.
Did my pituitary and thyroid screening 2 or 3 times and they are fine.
My prostate, kidneys and testicle screening showing they are fine as well.
My latest urologist urged me to visit psychiatrist so I went there as well.
He prescribed me SSRI (Wellbutrin) which is not supposed to cause further ED problems, but I don't feel much better on it after 2 weeks, I feel even more lethargic.
On my own, I took 1/4 of arimidex twice weekly and I think I felt better for a moment - At least my erections were better and my mood improved. After a while I dropped an AI, as it would only worsen my situation long-term.
2 weeks ago, I introduced 12.5mg of clomid EOD and recently I upped a dose to 25mg each day but I don't feel any difference.

I also bought proviron as I read it can boost libido and erections significantly but I decided against it as I'm afraid it will supress my hpta even further.

Now, I'm not very familiar with TRT and only recently I started reading about it.
If I decide to go with it, I would really like to maintain my fertility. 
I'v been thinking to go with HCG 2x250iu twice weekly.
As for testosterone, I will need to go underground for it as I won't get it in the pharmacy but source is quite reliable, as it is good friend of mine.
I have a choice of cypionate and enenanthate. 
I was thinking to start with lowest dosage of 80-100 mg of testosterone weekly.
Anyway, the biggest doubt I have is the way I want to administer injections -
I would opt for daily subq injections, as I read testosterone is the most stable this way and I would probably need no AI this way?
So, 15mg daily.
The other solution is 40-50mg twice weekly.
What would be your pick for starters?
As I mentioned, I cannot discuss this with any endo as they would think I'm crazy for wanting TRT.
 


 

slik.JPG

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Your gonna get flamed on here now buddy with them levels, yes they are within range but I sympathise with your frustrations.

You will probably be told there’s nothing wrong with your levels and it’s all psychological.

I hope you do get some improvements soon, I’ve recently just started nhs prescribed trt at 1g nebido every 12 weeks, my uncle has self prescribed his own trt for the past 4 years with 125mg per week test enanthate and feels great, I would listen to the professionals though if I’m honest dude, they do know their stuff 9 times out of 10.

Good luck.

Danny.

 

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22 hours ago, Shergar said:

Your gonna get flamed on here now buddy with them levels, yes they are within range but I sympathise with your frustrations.

You will probably be told there’s nothing wrong with your levels and it’s all psychological.

I hope you do get some improvements soon, I’ve recently just started nhs prescribed trt at 1g nebido every 12 weeks, my uncle has self prescribed his own trt for the past 4 years with 125mg per week test enanthate and feels great, I would listen to the professionals though if I’m honest dude, they do know their stuff 9 times out of 10.

Good luck.

Danny.

 

Thanks for support mate! I know they know their stuff but they looks so uninterested, you wouldn't believe.  I go to  private clinics and pay big bucks from my own pocket for them to be so arrogant. Last urologist didn't even care to check my woody, he just glanced over me and my results, and said 'I advice you to visit sexual psychotherapist'.  Only in stone-age Europe you have such doctors. 

I think I will start with even lower dosages, like 2x50mg weekly or 12.5mg daily subq as I heard testo is more stable this way and AI is usually not needed . Awaiting more replies :)

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You are making a big mistake.

Your levels are in range

You have a good physique 

Do you really think that injecting 80 to 100 mg of testosterone will make any difference to how you feel

On 2/22/2020 at 11:02 AM, Dreamcard said:

He prescribed me SSRI

Known to cause issues with sex drive. Even otc hay fever medications that are similar to SSRI cause issues 

You should try these:

 

3818C936-944D-489D-B792-7E1BD91B767F.jpeg

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@Sasnak

My mistake, it is NDRI (Wellbutrin) not SSRI. 

He prescribed me as it is not supposed to cause further ED problem comparing to other antidepressants.

But I think I will stop using it as I don't feel any different nor I was depressed before it. 

@faipdeooiad

I don't want to argue mate I just wish to solve my problem. I hope you never experience impotency in your late twenties like I did for a long time now.

And are you aware  that clinics in the USA recommend TRT for people around 12 nmol?

So it's the very same medical expertise recommending T therapy.

My T levels fluctuate around 12-15nmol as you can see. 

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25 minutes ago, Dreamcard said:

@Sasnak

My mistake, it is NDRI (Wellbutrin) not SSRI. 

He prescribed me as it is not supposed to cause further ED problem comparing to other antidepressants.

But I think I will stop using it as I don't feel any different nor I was depressed before it. 

@faipdeooiad

I don't want to argue mate I just wish to solve my problem. I hope you never experience impotency in your late twenties like I did for a long time now.

And are you aware  that clinics in the USA recommend TRT for people around 12 nmol?

So it's the very same medical expertise recommending T therapy.

My T levels fluctuate around 12-15nmol as you can see. 

You must understand, in US its business, they make lots of money from over prescribing TRT meds

It’s your body of course, you do what you like, give it 3 months and see if any improvements, but I get the feeling you’re going to be disappointed 

Wish you all the best regardless

I’m sure we’ve spoken recently and you were trying ai or clomid therapy, I don’t think you’ve given it enough time if so 

You are a perfect candidate for low dose clomid, you have low SHBG, low LH and low-mid range test, clomid would be my first port of call

Have you considered your fertility?

If you’ve tried this and your numbers have improved, but symptoms haven’t, then you’re probably mis diagnosing 

 

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17 minutes ago, Dreamcard said:

And are you aware  that clinics in the USA recommend TRT for people around 12 nmol?

That’s because people are paying. They want your money. My test was lower than yours. I didn’t need trt. They will prescribe trt whether you need it or not. Many private U.K. providers do the same. Malpractice and they should be shut down.

Whilst I’ve not crunched the numbers I doubt that 80mg will put you at the level you are at now.

You really need to wake up.

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I also think your urologist is right in prescribing Wellbutrin, as I believe your issues are neurotransmitter related and not hormone related at all 

Again though, you’re so impatient! 2 weeks isn’t enough time for it to fully work, it needs 6 weeks 

Your head is in so much of a mess, you’re just chucking protocol after protocol at it and hoping for the best!

None of it will work in just 2 weeks

My advice. Leave everything alone, apart from the Wellbutrin, give it 6 weeks then reassess 

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1 hour ago, CarrotTop said:

I’m sure we’ve spoken recently and you were trying ai or clomid therapy, I don’t think you’ve given it enough time

↑ This, not enough time...

@Dreamcard I first suggested clomid then AI approx one month ago (19/01) so there is no way you have given the AI sufficient time to work before moving onto the clomid. I gave the protocol of 25mg twice a week and @CarrotTop later advised 12.5 EOD, either way you've jumped onto this very quick and exceeded the dosage as doing 25mg a day.

I understand your frustrations mate, but you really need to give things time to work and settle in. You've been on the doctors suggestion of AD's for a couple of weeks and already dismissing them, everything needs time to work, so please let it.

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1 hour ago, Seppuku71 said:

@Dreamcard

Might be a  good time to point something  out to you  - Everyone who's replied to you so far saying it's not worth it, is either on prescribed trt or self medicating trt. Make of that what you will, 

That’s right - we’re trying to keep all the testosterone for ourselves to make sure we’re the biggest head-getters in the gym. 
 

Hands off my test

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Alright guys, I will postpone TRT then and continue with clomid therapy. Tomorrow I'm going to check my progesterone level as I have never done it before. Thank you all for replies, it's really appreciated.

@TERBO @CarrotTop

As for the clomid, I read some studies that subjects were treated with 50mg daily at the very least, this is why I upped dosage.  Does it make any sense to get back to 12.5 eod now, or stay 25mg eod for prolonged period?

 

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29 minutes ago, Dreamcard said:

Alright guys, I will postpone TRT then and continue with clomid therapy. Tomorrow I'm going to check my progesterone level as I have never done it before. Thank you all for replies, it's really appreciated.

@TERBO @CarrotTop

As for the clomid, I read some studies that subjects were treated with 50mg daily at the very least, this is why I upped dosage.  Does it make any sense to get back to 12.5 eod now, or stay 25mg eod for prolonged period?

 

Like I said above, stay on the Wellbutrin 

and if you’re going to continue the clomid, then you want to use the lowest dose possible imo

then retest in 4-6 weeks 

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Even if you hit it hard with certain diets, if given enough time the body's own endocrine system recovers itself. I think. 

Doubt you could have done any permanent damage considering you were natty. 

How long have you had these symptoms now? And do you have issues with your stomach  / digestion? 

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7 hours ago, FatOld said:

Even if you hit it hard with certain diets, if given enough time the body's own endocrine system recovers itself. I think. 

Doubt you could have done any permanent damage considering you were natty. 

How long have you had these symptoms now? And do you have issues with your stomach  / digestion? 

For far too long, years I'd say, but I'm more and more certain with each day that it might be psychological with me in the end. I don't have any issue with stomach and digestion.

What happened 5 days ago, I tried to reach my ex after several months. I have texted and called her but she did not answer. I wanted to cure my self before reaching her again  as we knew each other for years before we started dating.  She left me because of my impotency as I stated above and I decided to text her few days ago as I thought I felt better and after several months, I woke up knowing I can't spend another day without her. So I texted and called her daily and she didn't answer. 3 days ago her sister asked to see me and she told me she is in love with someone else for a month and she really loves that guy. I will never forget how much I trusted her when she was telling me we have something special and eternal, for life. 

I can't explain you what kind of wreck I'm at the moment. I lost more than 6kg (15+pounds) in 3 days, I have no appetite (before I could never satisfy my hunger and now light fruit meals makes me almost throw up), I'm restless and can't sleep (I sleep for an hour then jump out the bed, all wet) or stay in one place. I take xanax during the day to try and stay calm, friends can't help me as well. I decided to change town and do some shitty job because I can't stay in the same city where she is. 

I'm afraid I fecked up myself beyond any reparation now and my symptoms are worse then ever. 

I'm sorry I had to open myself somewhere, I know it's not the right place.

 

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3 hours ago, Dreamcard said:

I'm sorry I had to open myself somewhere, I know it's not the right place.

Best advice mate is to put yourself first, it's difficult but you need to move on which means no contact, stalking etc as it's just going to hurt you more.

The hard truth is forget what she said, it was meant at the time but means nothing now, and in your current state of mind your issue isn't going to get any better.

Messing about with hormones, taking xanax, eating poorly etc is going to make you feel worse, so I would drop everything except the Wellbutrin and concentrate on you.

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When you're unhappy, you won't recover. Be careful that you don't slide into depression. Maybe you're already there? 

Depression is not just psychological. If you are unhappy for a long period of time (sounds like you are), then the serotonin levels in your brain are affected. This impacts your mood. So you go from psychological unhappiness to physical symptoms. As hard as it is, you need to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. You may not always see it because the treacherous thing about depression is that you don't always realise you're in that dark place until it's too late. Death in the family have a similar effect, heart break, you name it. 

@TERBO is spot on, you must work on yourself, don't allow yourself to waste away. Avoid hormones for the moment, they will only imbalance your own hormone system. Take the time and look after yourself. Including your meals. Reduce them if you can't eat but don't skip meals and make sure you get all essential nutrients. 

Work on your confidence as well. Go on Tinder, show of your body there will be plenty of birds that will react to you. You don't have to take it anywhere but the confidence boost will do you good.

BTW: Does viagra work for you? 

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@TERBO @CarrotTop

I repeated my blood test today for thyorid and total testo (need to wait for dht results 10-14 days). As you guys know, I was only on clomid 12.5mg eod for last 17 days (I upped dosage to 25mg eod at one point but now I'm back to 12.5 eod as you suggested) and my testosterone jumped. Is it possible that clomid at such low dosages and after such a short time had this kind of impact? Now,  where do I go from here, how should I cycle clomid? Take this dosage for a month then take a 7 days break or differently?
Also I stopped taking thyroxin for almost 2 months and I only take aswagandha for thyroid and tsh and rt3 also improved a bit so I guess I don’t need t4 hormone either.
Really think results could be even better if I did tests few days ago as last couple of days were agonizing and incredible stressful because of my ex and s**t, I really thought my results would be a disaster.
Also, this is the first time after couple of years I’m taking gym-break (5 days of complete rest) without doing any hiit cardio or boxing on rest days before my tests, so it might have some effect as I went completely rested with 8-9 hrs of sleep (I usually sleep 5-6hrs). Being a little bit depressed makes me sleep more so I guess it had some impact as well.
The only problem is, I don’t feel any hornier with higher testo atm so I guess trt wouldn’t solve it either so I will postpone it atm as well. I guess it could be a mental thing after all then :)

And once again thank you all for your support and help! Without you I would already be on TRT and probably in bigger trouble now! 

 

In table, it says (Males 20-49 ranges are 2.49-8.36). 

 

 

IMG_0397.jpg

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How did you get trt with 12.7nmol test. I've just done mine with medilabs and it's 10.1. You have big muscles. I once had lean gains when I was 25 or so but now I'm 32, I'm fat and can't gain any muscle without gear. I can't afford £100 a mi th though for full-on private. If the NHS doesn't help me I might just do the odd test cycle every now and then 250mg a week or something. 

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1 hour ago, assface said:

How did you get trt with 12.7nmol test. I've just done mine with medilabs and it's 10.1. You have big muscles. I once had lean gains when I was 25 or so but now I'm 32, I'm fat and can't gain any muscle without gear. I can't afford £100 a mi th though for full-on private. If the NHS doesn't help me I might just do the odd test cycle every now and then 250mg a week or something. 

I'm not on TRT mate. You can't get prescribed TRT in my country with this level neither, I intended to go underground but postponed my decision.

I'm currently on clomid and T improved as you can see.

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