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swole troll

That's not a cruise

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"That's not a cruise, that's a cycle" 

the amount of times I've heard this proclaimed by steroid users as gospel based on no actual literature is far too frequent 

the definition of abuse of medication is any use of said medication outside of a prescribed setting (including exogenous hormones) 

so whether you take 50, 100, 125, 250, 500 or 1000mg of testosterone that wasn't prescribed to you at any time of the year you are abusing AAS no matter what your unqualified definition is.

No doctor would ask for the dosing to define whether or not it was a self administered cruise or cycle, they would simply say you were abusing steroids

reason being is 'cruise' is just a term made up by steroid users to describe an arbitrary dose of steroids lower than the dosage used for a more increased rate of performance enhancement (blast or cycle)

the idea behind a cruise is to strike a balance based on that individual's risk vs reward assessment of blood work and health markers returning to a more acceptable level whilst maintaining maximal progress.

Testosterone replacement therapy or TRT on the other hand is a medical practice by which a medical professional replaces your clinically low testosterone levels with exogenous testosterone in order to bring you back within the reference range which here in the UK is somewhere between 8nmol and 30nmol (slight variation between clinics) 

this is completely unrelated to a cycle, a blast, a cruise or any other recreational steroid user terminology.

until I see some sort of formal literature I will always hear cruise simply as a form of lesser abuse 

there is IFBB pros and elite level powerlifters running 3-4-5 grams of gear on a cycle and dropping to anywhere from 500mg to as high as 2000mg between these cycles (I know of one that does blast on 6g and cruise on 2g) at what point in their drug abusing path did their cruise tick over from a cruise to a cycle? 

honestly it's just semantics 
like claiming someone's joint containing more cannabis than the other guy's is no longer a joint but now some other nonsensical made up drug user term.

Here is some definitions that I'd think we all agree on:

Cycle or blast - a period of time whereby synthetic hormones are administered outside of a clinical setting in supraphysiologcal dosages in order to gain a performance and physique enhancing effect.

Cruise - a period of time whereby synthetic hormones are administered outside of the clinical setting in order to better improve health and blood markers whilst maintaining maximal muscle mass and performance achieved by the previous cycle or blast.

Testosterone replacement therapy or TRT -  a medical practice whereby someone suffering from hypogonadism is prescribed a replacement dose of synthetic testosterone in order to bring their levels back within the reference range.

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Totally agree with the above. You cannot pin say 0.4 mil and say it’s trt either. The only way to tell your own personal requirements is through blood work. Most people’s definition of a trt dose would probably still put them well above the top of the range, mine included.

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Agree to a point, but what about people who have a genuine need for trt and don’t get the help they need? 

It does happen....

if they self admin a trt dose backed up with blood work, are they still abusing steroids?

Or have they just saved them self a year or two of hassle, with no libido, motivation etc trying to go through a system that has very little sympathy or knowledge of male hormones...

The nhs is so behind the times with male hormones

If you do get treated in the system, what do you get? Replacement dose of test only, nothing else. 

What about fertility?

And before the “nhs is fine” brigade jump on me (you know who you are!) think how many of you people add your own little spin on their nhs protocol, like adding in hcg for example, so you may be able to do the basics in life, like reproduce! 

 

I get your sentiment mate, and it does need saying, but I just don’t agree that taking a self prescribed trt dose is abuse, especially if you have the knowledge to do it yourself and cba dealing with what is a very difficult system (for some) to get treated in 

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56 minutes ago, CarrotTop said:

Agree to a point, but what about people who have a genuine need for trt and don’t get the help they need? 

It does happen....

if they self admin a trt dose backed up with blood work, are they still abusing steroids?

Or have they just saved them self a year or two of hassle, with no libido, motivation etc trying to go through a system that has very little sympathy or knowledge of male hormones...

The nhs is so behind the times with male hormones

If you do get treated in the system, what do you get? Replacement dose of test only, nothing else. 

What about fertility?

And before the “nhs is fine” brigade jump on me (you know who you are!) think how many of you people add your own little spin on their nhs protocol, like adding in hcg for example, so you may be able to do the basics in life, like reproduce! 

 

I get your sentiment mate, and it does need saying, but I just don’t agree that taking a self prescribed trt dose is abuse, especially if you have the knowledge to do it yourself and cba dealing with what is a very difficult system (for some) to get treated in 

Have you even read the post?

If someone self administered testosterone after getting a blood test that said his test was low then that’s not abusing steroids is it? 

Said person needs TRT.

 

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I get that if you don't agree with the care you're receiving or likely to receive on the NHS, then self-administering testosterone to bring yourself close to the mean of the bell curve is, arguably sensible. But it's not TRT.

In the strictest possible sense, no one can contest what the @swole troll has said. It's incontrovertible. The keyword here fellas is, "therapy". You might (with or without blasts) self-prescribe and administer testosterone (as I have done the past 5 years), but that does not constitute therapy any more than talking to your friend about your mental health problems is (regardless of whether it fixes the problem).

I like Broderick Chavez's definition of "STRT" - Sports TRT (it occurs to me that one could easily substitute the sports for "supraphysiological" or "self-administered"). That is, it's a supraphysiological (in an individual context, and it has to be, otherwise why would you do it?) replacement dose for those who wish to excel in an athletic environment. He puts this at 2-3mg/kg BW of androgens weekly, context-dependent.

I favour this definition. That said, you could also just call it a "cruise" - because that's what it is.

So:

  • TRT - therapy, prescribed by a licensed medical professional (commonly--rightly or wrongly--targeting the mean of the normal distribution for testosterone levels).
  • STRT/Cruise - the minimum effective supraphysiological dose for at least the maintenance of athletic performance.
  • Blast/Cycle - anything else.

 

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2 hours ago, swole troll said:

"That's not a cruise, that's a cycle" 

the amount of times I've heard this proclaimed by steroid users as gospel based on no actual literature is far too frequent 

the definition of abuse of medication is any use of said medication outside of a prescribed setting (including exogenous hormones) 

so whether you take 50, 100, 125, 250, 500 or 1000mg of testosterone that wasn't prescribed to you at any time of the year you are abusing AAS no matter what your unqualified definition is.

No doctor would ask for the dosing to define whether or not it was a self administered cruise or cycle, they would simply say you were abusing steroids

reason being is 'cruise' is just a term made up by steroid users to describe an arbitrary dose of steroids lower than the dosage used for a more increased rate of performance enhancement (blast or cycle)

the idea behind a cruise is to strike a balance based on that individual's risk vs reward assessment of blood work and health markers returning to a more acceptable level whilst maintaining maximal progress.

Testosterone replacement therapy or TRT on the other hand is a medical practice by which a medical professional replaces your clinically low testosterone levels with exogenous testosterone in order to bring you back within the reference range which here in the UK is somewhere between 8nmol and 30nmol (slight variation between clinics) 

this is completely unrelated to a cycle, a blast, a cruise or any other recreational steroid user terminology.

until I see some sort of formal literature I will always hear cruise simply as a form of lesser abuse 

there is IFBB pros and elite level powerlifters running 3-4-5 grams of gear on a cycle and dropping to anywhere from 500mg to as high as 2000mg between these cycles (I know of one that does blast on 6g and cruise on 2g) at what point in their drug abusing path did their cruise tick over from a cruise to a cycle? 

honestly it's just semantics 
like claiming someone's joint containing more cannabis than the other guy's is no longer a joint but now some other nonsensical made up drug user term.

Here is some definitions that I'd think we all agree on:

Cycle or blast - a period of time whereby synthetic hormones are administered outside of a clinical setting in supraphysiologcal dosages in order to gain a performance and physique enhancing effect.

Cruise - a period of time whereby synthetic hormones are administered outside of the clinical setting in order to better improve health and blood markers whilst maintaining maximal muscle mass and performance achieved by the previous cycle or blast.

Testosterone replacement therapy or TRT -  a medical practice whereby someone suffering from hypogonadism is prescribed a replacement dose of synthetic testosterone in order to bring their levels back within the reference range.

There was a guy posting on this forum not long ago who said he was cruising on 1g Test and 1g Mast. Distal was his username if I remember correctly. 

 

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Thank god this has been covered with a sensible post at long last, I see so many people self prescribing anything up to 250mg per week and calling it TRT without  bloodwork. 

'My libido is low and I have bad moods, my test must automatically be low and therefore I'll cruise on a 'TRT' dose' They then don't monitor blood work whilst doing so. 

Even when people have bloods and it comes back at 12-15 for example, rather than working on ways to naturally increase test levels - such regular Vit D, Zinc and eating more healthy fats (always works for me as it would for most if they actually tried it) they just administer test. 

I'm even seeing posts now talking about multiple compound cruises! What if I just use X oral or X deca alongside low dose test... the mind boggles - a well known member of the trained by JP steroid abusing clan was mentioning that his 'cruise' was 400 test and 200 mast.

Each to their own, appreciate there are exceptions to the rule but for the vast majority of people on self prescribed TRT they could make lifestyle changes to improve mood and libido and cycle as opposed to this B&C and faux TRT nonsense. 

 

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1 hour ago, MrGRoberts said:

Have you even read the post?

If someone self administered testosterone after getting a blood test that said his test was low then that’s not abusing steroids is it? 

Said person needs TRT.

 

Yes I have, clearly you haven’t though

Maybe try again 

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I thought everyone knew this by now? It’s literally the most basic concept and common sense.

Took 1-2 years away from the forum, and still the same info/rhetoric having to be posted daily 

Credit to your persistence @swole troll in writing the long posts, don’t you feel like banging your head against a wall instead though?

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1 hour ago, CarrotTop said:

Agree to a point, but what about people who have a genuine need for trt and don’t get the help they need? 

It does happen....

if they self admin a trt dose backed up with blood work, are they still abusing steroids?

Or have they just saved them self a year or two of hassle, with no libido, motivation etc trying to go through a system that has very little sympathy or knowledge of male hormones...

The nhs is so behind the times with male hormones

If you do get treated in the system, what do you get? Replacement dose of test only, nothing else. 

What about fertility?

And before the “nhs is fine” brigade jump on me (you know who you are!) think how many of you people add your own little spin on their nhs protocol, like adding in hcg for example, so you may be able to do the basics in life, like reproduce! 

 

I get your sentiment mate, and it does need saying, but I just don’t agree that taking a self prescribed trt dose is abuse, especially if you have the knowledge to do it yourself and cba dealing with what is a very difficult system (for some) to get treated in 

my opinion on this (which is all any of this debate really is for all camps involved) is it's a bit of a grey area

I really can see your point regarding fertility preservation with these gonadotropin mimickers and the UK certainly is behind on the overall TRT front, even more so in females, I even did a post about it ITT:
 

However I do think they largely have the androgen replacement level of things covered as you should not need an aromatase inhibitor or something to free up SHBG with TRT, its replacement therapy 

the fertility management again is a grey area that certainly needs work this side of the pond. 

The brunt of my argument was against those using PED's or rather misusing synthetic hormones for sports performance and taking the high horse over those doing the same thing

whether you use 75mg for a cruise or 250mg for a cruise the very fact you are using it for a sports performance edge (avoiding coming off) is abuse and to preach to the higher users is a joke, I have more respect for naturals bashing steroid users than I do lesser users bashing the more frivolous user.

 

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34 minutes ago, Oxon Jay said:

There was a guy posting on this forum not long ago who said he was cruising on 1g Test and 1g Mast. Distal was his username if I remember correctly. 

 

I don't like naming names but there is a retired top level powerlifter in the UK on record 'somewhere online' stating he uses 6 grams of combined hormones and multiple pens of insulin per week during a blast and 1 gram of equipoise and 1 gram of testosterone during a cruise 

I mean considering it is all slang at the end of the day wouldn't it be obvious that the 6 grams was his blast and the 2 grams was his cruise?

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8 minutes ago, swole troll said:

my opinion on this (which is all any of this debate really is for all camps involved) is it's a bit of a grey area

I really can see your point regarding fertility preservation with these gonadotropin mimickers and the UK certainly is behind on the overall TRT front, even more so in females, I even did a post about it ITT:
 

However I do think they largely have the androgen replacement level of things covered as you should not need an aromatase inhibitor or something to free up SHBG with TRT, its replacement therapy 

the fertility management again is a grey area that certainly needs work this side of the pond. 

The brunt of my argument was against those using PED's or rather misusing synthetic hormones for sports performance and taking the high horse over those doing the same thing

whether you use 75mg for a cruise or 250mg for a cruise the very fact you are using it for a sports performance edge (avoiding coming off) is abuse and to preach to the higher users is a joke, I have more respect for naturals bashing steroid users than I do lesser users bashing the more frivolous user.

 

Yeah I think we’re on same page mate.

i agree about ai’s, should be no need to use on replacement dose at all.

the U.S is way more advanced, but it’s  treated as a business isn’t it, and things are overly prescribed for obvious reasons....

The NHS however, don’t look at it properly do they, what if someone was secondary hypo? Doesn’t matter, here’s a gel, or a massive injection every 12 weeks, be on your way.....

When really, there may be better options and ways of correcting if going more deep into it, like a small dose of a serm 

Anyway, gone slightly off topic there lol 

Good post all in all mate, will read that thread you linked now 

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7 minutes ago, Devil said:

I thought everyone knew this by now? It’s literally the most basic concept and common sense.

Took 1-2 years away from the forum, and still the same info/rhetoric having to be posted daily 

Credit to your persistence @swole troll in writing the long posts, don’t you feel like banging your head against a wall instead though?

it's all just discussion 

walk away and back to any themed forum and the topics will have not changed a great deal

nutrition, sleep, training and supplementation it's all fairly simple and not much more is being discovered to discuss so it really only leaves debate of current approaches or advice to those new to the topic.

the only section of any forum with constantly changing topics will be the general forum 

if it's a tennis forum on about rackets or a car forum on about engines it'll have a fairly consistent theme of repetitiveness.

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20 minutes ago, Mingster said:

Anyone using ugl test for self prescribed trt is abusing the drug. No-one actually knows the amount of test these products contain from batch to batch, and lab to lab.

Good luck on finding an accurately dosed ugl to keep you going for the next 40 years or so.

not to mention all those contaminants and heavy metals building up over the years 

to think there is anything remotely close to a medical practice using some oil bottled and labeled up in a council flat by some grubby finger nailed 'brewer' smoking a roll up is laughable 

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2 minutes ago, swole troll said:

it's all just discussion 

walk away and back to any themed forum and the topics will have not changed a great deal

nutrition, sleep, training and supplementation it's all fairly simple and not much more is being discovered to discuss so it really only leaves debate of current approaches or advice to those new to the topic.

the only section of any forum with constantly changing topics will be the general forum 

if it's a tennis forum on about rackets or a car forum on about engines it'll have a fairly consistent theme of repetitiveness.

Half the reason I think I’ve fallen out of love/favour with it all, even just talking about it, actually lifting, nutrition - even drug use.

Once there’s not really anymore info to gain, it all feels monotonous.

Still lift as hard as always and do what I need, but yeah, shame it’s all actually so simple. 

 

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7 hours ago, swole troll said:

not to mention all those contaminants and heavy metals building up over the years 

to think there is anything remotely close to a medical practice using some oil bottled and labeled up in a council flat by some grubby finger nailed 'brewer' smoking a roll up is laughable 

I’ve mentioned the same thing many times before and got nothing but abuse for it. 

Slightly off topic but reality is that your steroids are manufactured in conditions like this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5678145/amp/Couple-lived-lavish-lifestyle-running-1m-steroids-lab-claiming-benefits-jailed.html

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10 minutes ago, no-one said:

I’ve mentioned the same thing many times before and got nothing but abuse for it. 

Slightly off topic but reality is that your steroids are manufactured in conditions like this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5678145/amp/Couple-lived-lavish-lifestyle-running-1m-steroids-lab-claiming-benefits-jailed.html

Good lab that rep had.

What makes me laugh is that million £ in assets over 10 years, yet they get done because they still claim benefits lmao.

 

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48 minutes ago, Devil said:

Good lab that rep had.

What makes me laugh is that million £ in assets over 10 years, yet they get done because they still claim benefits lmao.

 

Got a question for you.....if you had known how it had been manufactured would you have used it still?

p.s I have used it also in the past. I know UGLs are shady but that set up is pretty horrific and this as you say was within the top 10 of reputable UK UGLs.

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31 minutes ago, no-one said:

Got a question for you.....if you had known how it had been manufactured would you have used it still?

p.s I have used it also in the past. I know UGLs are shady but that set up is pretty horrific and this as you say was within the top 10 of reputable UK UGLs.

If I’d seen the pics, no. On the flip side, as you say, reputable with barely issues, top 5 for years. 
 

No gurantee any other is even as good, could be far worse and probably is. Perhaps the devil you know is better...so probably yes the more I type this. 

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29 minutes ago, no-one said:

Got a question for you.....if you had known how it had been manufactured would you have used it still?

p.s I have used it also in the past. I know UGLs are shady but that set up is pretty horrific and this as you say was within the top 10 of reputable UK UGLs.

Honestly mate, most of the gear people are using on here is made in someone’s kitchen.

Wildcat had a solid rep, not seen one report of an infection off them over all the years they were producing. 

Their setup was most likely better than most of the ugls you see today, I can even see in the second picture that they had a laminar flow hood! Not sure how much you know about it all so won’t try and sound patronising!.......Not many labs would even bother with that would they tbf

And another thing, the media are hardly going to post images of a sparkling clean lab are they, can pretty much guarantee they made it look as bad as they could 

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1 hour ago, CarrotTop said:

Honestly mate, most of the gear people are using on here is made in someone’s kitchen.

Wildcat had a solid rep, not seen one report of an infection off them over all the years they were producing. 

Their setup was most likely better than most of the ugls you see today, I can even see in the second picture that they had a laminar flow hood! Not sure how much you know about it all so won’t try and sound patronising!.......Not many labs would even bother with that would they tbf

And another thing, the media are hardly going to post images of a sparkling clean lab are they, can pretty much guarantee they made it look as bad as they could 

Fair points about a police raid and the media making it look even more shitty, but it was still a shitty set up.  Far from men in white coats.  They actually look like a couple of middle aged alcoholics.

Perhaps I'm just getting old, but looking back I think I was off my head injecting myself with this s**t.  Luckily I have come away fairly unscathed unlike some people.  This is actually very horrible and the fact that so many shitheads can just set up these so called 'labs' in worse conditions is quite terrifying.  There's a male or female in another thread on here who is in hospital (or been in hospital) due to the consequences of injecting a liquid which was clearly contaminated and manufactured in unscrupulous conditions.

Anyway, I'll leave you to it and sorry to Swole Troll for any sort of derailment.

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36 minutes ago, no-one said:

Fair points about a police raid and the media making it look even more shitty, but it was still a shitty set up.  Far from men in white coats.  They actually look like a couple of middle aged alcoholics.

Perhaps I'm just getting old, but looking back I think I was off my head injecting myself with this s**t.  Luckily I have come away fairly unscathed unlike some people.  This is actually very horrible and the fact that so many shitheads can just set up these so called 'labs' in worse conditions is quite terrifying.  There's a male or female in another thread on here who is in hospital (or been in hospital) due to the consequences of injecting a liquid which was manufactured in unscrupulous conditions.

Anyway, I'll leave you to it and sorry to Swole Troll for any sort of derailment.

You’re alright mate, it’s only going to get worse, there’s numerous amounts of shitty little setups about now, more so than ever, everyone’s having a go at it it seems! And more people are taking gear now too. 

There’s a big epidemic on the horizon coming!! 

But honestly; you’d be mortified if you saw the reality lol 

The likes of pro Chem and BD are gone, theres not many real big proper lab setups in the U.K. anymore, and no one wants to pay the going rates either for them, just look how cheap aas are now, cheaper than ever and there’s a reason for that 

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