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China's ban on raws Jan 2020

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16 hours ago, stargazer said:

 

Just exactly what is happening and what is 100% legit?

I haven't read anything or heard anything that tells me that the export of raw steroid powders from china are being banned, apart from one greedy supplier who thinks these rumors  are a  great opportunity to hike up prices.

So what is going on apart from a possibility that China might regulate or ban the export of SARMS and Nootropics?

From 1st jan - raws will no longer be available from China. Simple as that. Personally I think it will be a temporary stop in supply until the Chinese find a way around the new legislation and the likelihood is that most UGLs will stock up on raws this side of Xmas so that they don’t run out. 

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I've just stocked up on enough Pharmacon Test E for 2 1/2 years  worth of TRT.   That should see me through any short term blip in the market :)  . 

Cheers for putting this up and letting us know.  

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2 hours ago, sitries said:

From 1st jan - raws will no longer be available from China. Simple as that. Personally I think it will be a temporary stop in supply until the Chinese find a way around the new legislation and the likelihood is that most UGLs will stock up on raws this side of Xmas so that they don’t run out. 

Have you ever been to a communist country? They are corrupt as f*ck. Weather this will be enforced or not in 2020 will yet to be seen. And from what I've heard from certain sources is that this is only a crack down on underground labs. If you have a certificate you can still produce raws. These regulatory changes where first reported in 2018... China has being saying they are going to crack down for years. Nothing ever happens.

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Tldr but it seems like this is happening :( :

Supreme People's Court issued "Interpretation on Several Issues concerning the Application of Law in the Trial of Criminal Cases of Smuggling, Illegal Business and Illegal Use of Doping" (with full text)


Supreme people's court
11-19 18:17 Information Bureau of the Supreme People's Court
 

attention

 

On November 18, the Supreme People's Court issued the Interpretation on Several Issues Concerning the Application of Law in the Trial of Criminal Cases of Smuggling, Illegal Business and Illegal Use of Stimulants (hereinafter referred to as the "Interpretation"). The "Interpretation" was considered and approved by the 1781st meeting of the Judicial Committee of the Supreme People's Court on November 12, 2019, and will be implemented on January 1, 2020.
The "Interpretation" adheres to Xi Jinping's new era of socialist thinking with Chinese characteristics as the guidance, implements the spirit of General Secretary Jinping's important expositions and important instructions on sports, adheres to the rule of law, adheres to the problem-oriented, and promotes the sustainable and healthy development of sports Accelerate the construction of a strong sports country and create a good environment. According to the provisions of the Criminal Law, the issue of conviction and sentencing of doping crimes has been stipulated. It mainly clarified the following:
The first is to strengthen source management. In accordance with judicial practice, clarify the conviction and sentencing standards for substances listed in the smuggling stimulant list. At the same time, it is stipulated that, if the substances listed in the doping list are illegally traded, and the substances involved in the case belong to the articles restricted by laws and administrative regulations, they can be convicted and punished.
The second is to punish illegal use. Clearly organize, compel, seduce, deceive minors, persons with disabilities who use illegal stimulants in sports, and seriously harm the physical and mental health of minors and persons with disabilities. Convicted and punished for ill-treatment of a guardian or caregiver. It is clear that in the sports and physical fitness tests involved in the national examinations required by laws such as general university enrollment and civil servant recruitment, organizing candidates to illegally use stimulants shall be convicted and punished by organizing the examination for cheating. Those who explicitly produce and sell foods containing substances listed in the Doping List and meet the relevant provisions of the Criminal Law shall be convicted and punished for the crime of producing and selling food that does not meet safety standards, and the crime of producing and selling toxic and harmful food.
The third is to compact supervision responsibility. Clarify that staff of state agencies and staff of units that exercise anti-doping management authority in accordance with law or when entrusted with it, abuse their power or neglect their duties while exercising their anti-doping management authority, causing serious doping violations, serious damage to national reputation, or bad If it has social influence, it shall be convicted and punished for the crime of abusing power and negligence.
The "Explanation" will provide a strong guarantee for winning the anti-doping struggle, maintaining fair competition in sports competitions, and protecting the physical and mental health of sports participants. (Reporter: Sun Hang)
"Interpretation" in full:
Supreme People's Court of the People's Republic of China
announcement
Interpretations of the Supreme People's Court on Several Issues concerning the Application of Laws in Criminal Cases Concerning Smuggling, Illegal Business, and Illegal Use of Stimulants Effective from January 1, 2014.
Supreme people's court
November 18, 2019
Interpretation (2019) No. 16
Supreme people's court
About trial of smuggling, illegal operation, illegal use
Explanation of Several Issues on the Application of Law in Criminal Cases
(Adopted at the 1781st meeting of the Judicial Committee of the Supreme People's Court on November 12, 2019, and effective as of January 1, 2020)
In order to punish the crimes of smuggling, illegal operation and illegal use of stimulants according to law, maintain fair competition in sports competitions, and protect the physical and mental health of sports participants, this Law is formulated in accordance with the Criminal Law of the People's Republic of China and the Criminal Procedure Law of the People's Republic of China. Explanation.
Article 1: Athletes and athlete auxiliary personnel smuggle substances listed in the doping list, or other persons smuggle substances listed in the doping list for the purpose of illegal use in sports competitions. The substances involved in the case belong to the goods and articles prohibited by the state from being imported and exported. In one of the circumstances, the offender should be convicted and punished in accordance with the provisions of Article 151, Paragraph 3 of the Criminal Law:
(1) Having been smuggled after being given more than two administrative penalties for smuggling within one year;
(2) Used or intended to be used by minor athletes or disabled athletes;
(3) Used or intended to be used in major domestic and international sports competitions;
(4) Other situations that cause severe social impact.
In the conduct of the preceding paragraph, the material involved in the case does not belong to the goods and articles prohibited by the state for import and export, but the amount of tax payable for evasion is more than 10,000 yuan, or smuggled after being given more than two administrative penalties for smuggling within one year. In accordance with the provisions of Article 153 of the Criminal Law, the crime of smuggling ordinary goods and articles shall be convicted and punished.
For the acts of smuggled stimulants listed in the first and second paragraphs of this article, the Interpretation of the Supreme People's Court and the Supreme People's Procuratorate on Several Issues concerning the Application of Laws in Smuggling Criminal Cases (Fujian [2014] No. 10) ) Standards for convictions and sentencing.
Article 2: In violation of national regulations, the substances listed in the stimulant catalogue are operated without permission, and the substances involved in the case belong to items restricted by laws and administrative regulations, which disrupt the market order. If the circumstances are serious, they shall be in accordance with Article 225 of the Criminal Law. Provisions, convicted and punished for illegal business operations.
Article 3 Persons who have the responsibility of guardianship and care for minors and disabled persons who organize the illegal use of stimulants by minors and disabled persons in sports shall be identified as the 260th of the Criminal Law One of the "bad circumstances" stipulated in Article 1 is convicted and punished for the crime of ill-treatment of guardians and caregivers:
(1) Forcing minors or disabled persons to use it;
(2) Seducing or deceiving minors or disabled persons for long-term use;
(3) Other situations that seriously damage the physical and mental health of minors and disabled persons.
Article 4 Organizing candidates for the illegal use of stimulants in sports such as sports and physical fitness tests required by the national examinations required by laws such as admissions of ordinary institutions of higher learning and the recruitment of civil servants shall be in accordance with the provisions of Article 284 of the Criminal Law To convict and punish the crime of cheating.
Anyone who knowingly commits another person to commit a crime in the preceding paragraph and provides stimulants shall be convicted and punished in accordance with the provisions of the preceding paragraph.
Article 5 For the production and sale of foods containing substances listed in the stimulant list that meet the requirements of Article 143 and Article 144 of the Criminal Law, the crime of producing and selling food that does not meet safety standards, Conviction and punishment of selling poisonous and harmful food.
Article 6 Staff members of state organs who abuse their powers or neglect their duties while exercising their anti-doping management powers, cause serious doping violations, seriously damage the country ’s reputation, or cause bad social impact, in accordance with Article 397 of the Criminal Law, Convicted and punished for abuse of power and negligence.
Staff members of units that exercise anti-doping management authority in accordance with the law or are entrusted with abuse of power or neglect of duties while exercising anti-doping management authority shall be convicted and punished in accordance with the provisions of the preceding paragraph.
Article 7 In carrying out the acts stipulated in this Interpretation, if the substances involved in the case belong to drugs, drug-making articles, etc., constituting relevant crimes, they shall be convicted and punished in accordance with the corresponding crimes.
Article 8 Special issues such as whether they belong to the "stimulants", "substances listed in the doping list", "sports", and "domestic and international major sports competitions" as stipulated in this Interpretation shall be based on the The Doping Regulations and other laws and regulations are combined with the evidence and other evidence materials issued by the State Council ’s sports authority to make the determination.
Article 9 This interpretation shall come into effect on January 1, 2020.
Source: People's Court News and Media Corporation
Editing: Jingjing Lu

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35 minutes ago, doyle1987 said:

My raw sources are saying business as usual for them come january.

One has been running for 20+years and other is direct from a licenced factory.

I think this could go either way. Some sources have reportedly stated “business as usual” and others have reported that they won’t supply after 1 Jan. The ones who have stated the latter might well be just saying that to facilitate a bump in sales

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31 minutes ago, Sasnak said:

I think this could go either way. Some sources have reportedly stated “business as usual” and others have reported that they won’t supply after 1 Jan. The ones who have stated the latter might well be just saying that to facilitate a bump in sales

From what mine have said the one shutting up shop are the middlemen. Any factory with licence to produce will be business as usual.

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This might be a naive simplification but like anything black market the ones who decide to flout the law will keep on manufacturing and the ones who don't won't. I doubt AAS are suddenly about to disappear off the planet. How it will it affect the market is a different matter of course...

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Lol Sasnak says Tldr then posts a full essay on Chinese law  :lol: 

Regarding this crackdown I’ve heard mixed reviews, some guys saying it’s the end of steroids out of China, then others saying nothing will happen, there have been scares like this before.

I suspect maybe the truth is in the middle somewhere...

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On 09/12/2019 at 6:11 PM, Big Ian said:

@simonboyle seeing as sarms are on that list have you heard anything from suppliers your side?

No.

Not very involved in anything at the moment. I'd wait and see. They do things every now and then.

Couple of years ago it was that all factories had to close. But they just made them move to less populated areas.

I serious doubt this will amount to much. Plus, it's the free market. Someone else will step in. Many many countries don't care about it.

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:34 AM, eddo said:

Lol Sasnak says Tldr then posts a full essay on Chinese law  :lol: 

Regarding this crackdown I’ve heard mixed reviews, some guys saying it’s the end of steroids out of China, then others saying nothing will happen, there have been scares like this before.

I suspect maybe the truth is in the middle somewhere...

They only all come from China as, like with everything else, they beat anyone elses prices 

Plenty of other countries do cheap raws. In reality it will have little impact in price or availability long term.

Worst case? There may be a short period where it's limited supplies and slight price hike.

But will still be cheaper than pharmacon, lol 

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On 03/12/2019 at 3:44 PM, Cronus said:

Where there is a demand there will always be a supply 

Yes, if China bows out India will step in. 

That`s if the China situation actually comes to anything  

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This is defo happening ffs...  I just spoke to my HGH supplier in china that manufactures it directly and they are ceasing all shipments on HGH/HCG/Peptides & raws from December 25th. I have used them for a while and have a good relationship and asked is there any way around it maybe via Vietnam etc they said absolutely not the punishment is to much so they are going to abide by the new law for a while n see how it plays out. These guys are a big supplier of raw materials. This will have a knock on effect to supply chain for a while so I would stock up for a year if you want to play smart. As others have mentioned there's to much demand n money in it so they will distribute from elsewhere but will take a little while to get going so I would imagine there will be some disruption to UGL's next year n many others will use it to ramp up prices at least. Just my 2pence worth coming from the horses mouth....

I noticed two of the regular places I get oils from have ceased trading this month as well doubt its related but I am stocking up for a year+ anyway... f**k being natty for more than 3 months!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, sos2008 said:

This is defo happening ffs...  I just spoke to my HGH supplier in china that manufactures it directly and they are ceasing all shipments on HGH/HCG/Peptides & raws from December 25th. I have used them for a while and have a good relationship and asked is there any way around it maybe via Vietnam etc they said absolutely not the punishment is to much so they are going to abide by the new law for a while n see how it plays out. These guys are a big supplier of raw materials. This will have a knock on effect to supply chain for a while so I would stock up for a year if you want to play smart. As others have mentioned there's to much demand n money in it so they will distribute from elsewhere but will take a little while to get going so I would imagine there will be some disruption to UGL's next year n many others will use it to ramp up prices at least. Just my 2pence worth coming from the horses mouth....

I noticed two of the regular places I get oils from have ceased trading this month as well doubt its related but I am stocking up for a year anyway... f**k being natty for more than 3 months!!!!!!

Yeah! maybe for you it is ffs, i'm all good ta :P.

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1 hour ago, stargazer said:

Yeah! maybe for you it is ffs, i'm all good ta :P.

Doesn't effect me mate I've got about 2 years worth after yesterdays order lol, just putting it out there to help others as that is straight from the mouth of a mass Chinese manufacturer of raw materials that ive dealt with for a while who supply to UGL's. Who knows whats guna happen but must be some merit in it if these guys are stopping shipments.. 

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34 minutes ago, godsgifttoearth said:

well one the biggest RAW suppliers has confirmed they're moving to India soon, so this is less of a drama.

Interesting. If it's that straightforward logistically then I'm sure the rest will quickly follow.

I'm interested in how much equipment and facilities are actually required to manufacture raw compounds? 

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13 minutes ago, Oxon Jay said:

Interesting. If it's that straightforward logistically then I'm sure the rest will quickly follow.

I'm interested in how much equipment and facilities are actually required to manufacture raw compounds? 

you can just move the equipment, its not massive scale like an oil refinery. I've already said this in the thread, supply of raws will not stop, the smaller resellers and middle men might, the big dogs aren't going to surrender million dollar businesses.

the major change is going to be raws and gear.coming into the UK. I can imagine brexit is a bigger factor on free movement of large scale supply via land and sea shipping than some minor legislative lip service in China.

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from what i read its only SARM raws thats getting export ban from China, as the US is also banning SARM sales in the States placing SARMS in the cat as Anabolics.

very much doubt China will bow down to pressure from the US of exports of most things TBH so i wouldnt worry about about sted raws, plus the fact its big business so other Asian countries will just start producing it if China stops.

labs will use this as an excuse to put prices up id imagine.

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There is a thread on another board which I can’t name due to the advertising links on there where Mike Arnold (American steroid guru and large seller of sarms/prohormones/peptides) and a rep for a large euro ugl lab both say their manufacturers in China are saying it will be business as usual next year for them. So maybe it’s only the smaller manufacturers who can’t afford the bribes and middle men that this is going to affect?

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Seems like a lot of mixed messages being communicated on this issue, as expected. 

Looks like we are all just going to have to wait and see what happens in the first few months of 2020. 

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