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Stupid idea , or not?

634 views 29 replies 6 participants last post by  Seppuku71 
#1 ·
I'd appreciate opinions on my situation, and whether or not you think i'd regret following this path.

Age:48. Got first blood tests done around age 39, through the nhs. Reason for getting tested at that time being just curiosity as i've been a gym rat since around 20 years old and i wanted to know where i was (i had to give gp all the right buzzwords, ie low libido etc to get tested).

1st result through nhs was 12.7nmol/l

I was told to get second test one month later. I took d-aspartic acid for that month, as it was said to raise testosterone:

2nd result came back 9 nmol (so much for daa)

GP sent me to endo who tested again - result came back around 14 nmol, with a letter in the post from him saying i must be relieved that there's no problem (in retrospect, i'd probably now agree). All these tests so far had shown LH around 3 to 4 i think, so mid range (i don't have the paperwork with me as i'm at work hiding)

Fast forward about a year (2011/12), low dose clomid therapy was getting mentioned a lot on the web as an alternative to trt. Sounded a good idea, so i bought some online, started taking it at 12.5mg eod. After several weeks of this, i went back to the gp, begged for a new blood test. This came back at 21 nmol/l. I was happy, as basically, up to this point i was just chasing numbers. I continued with the clomid untill last year (2018) so continuosly for about 6 years, assuming my testosterone would just stay at 21nmol

Around the end of 2016 i started putting on some unwanted weight, getting a bit of a gut on me, with no change in diet or activity level. I noticed i had less stamina than usual during day to day activities, ie, on holiday going for family walks i would get fatiged and struggle to keep up , which was very unlike me. During 2017 i took the occasional proviron as i'd read it was none suppresive. I enjoyed the effects of this, but after some weeks my joints started playing up, knees felt dry and would lock up when trying to squat down etc. I stopped the proviron. Joint problems continued though, and i kept on the clomid, assuming it was still keeping me at around 21nmol.

In 2018 i saw an advert for Medichecks. I bought a basic testosterone test, got an early morning blood draw:
Result: 11.7nmol.
I retook a couple of weeks later, but with LH etc:
Result: 11.7nmol, LH 8

At this point i dropped the clomid and over the next year took several more tests, including the trt one. I got the following results, all with clomid out of my system:

Aug 2018: T 8.68, LH 4.28

Sept 2018: T 7.86, LH 8.4

Oct 2018: T 8.97, LH 4.72

Feb 2019: T 9.52, LH 4.38

June 2019: T 9.67, LH 4.5

In all the tests where i had a calculated free test result, it's been at the bottom of the range or lower. The last one was 0.215 nmol/l, the others roughly the same.

So now it's October. Symptoms wise, i get all over body aches, especially first thing in the morning. Poor concentration, brain fog, low motivation, Stamina in the gym, it just isn't there. A couple of years ago i without fail trained three times a week, full body workouts, always progressing. I remember during that time taking my kids to Blackpool, there all day, pleasure beach, arcades etc. Left around 10pm, drove back home, in my gym at midnight squatting, bags of energy. Now, i struggle to get through twice weekly workouts, sometimes once, and i couldn't do that now as i described above after a long day out. I'm getting older, i know. But.....is it testosterone related?

I've got myself two years worth of ugl test e at home, and can easily get more. I don't want to bother the nhs again, been there, done that. Every day when i get out of bed, every time i'm at work and find myself leaning against things because i'm tired, and every time i'm in my gym and realise i'm doing half what i did two years ago, i think, "why not?". Would it be a stupid idea to put myself on diy trt? Would i regret it?

Opinions welcomed, thank you in advance.
 
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#2 ·
Im not you so can't tell if you will regret it or not.

If i was in your feet i would visit a good trt doctor. In your case dr Robert Stevens.

I started trt last month at the age of 29. No point waiting, what will you wait for? Be extremely old and have fatigue and feel like crap for no reason for decades?

Other thing i say specially now that i have a daughter is that im after quality of life. I have no contract with god for eternal life so i dont know how long ill be around. I want to be able to do everyday activities without feeling like crap.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for replying Djibril and Terbro., i appreciate you taking the effort. With regards to getting full bloods done, it's a year old now but i did take a 'trt plus' check exactly 12 months ago. The otbers have been the 'male hormone check' which don't give as much info. Although it's a year old, i'll attach screen shots of the 'trt plus' one. As you'll see, i'm obviously a bit messed up with regards to lipids etc (could the proviron have caused this, or just my love of butter?)

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#5 ·
I'm no expert, but from someone who has self prescribed it has made a world of difference to my quality of life. I would be tempted to try 100 - 200mg test e week and re-test in a month or so and see where you're at. Your lipids aren't great, do you do any cardio? If not 3 X 20min sessions week would probably be a good idea.

Your thyroid is a bit sluggish to.
 
#6 ·
Hi Kruz, thank you for your advice. I don't do any cardio, and you're right i should do. I think in the past i've relied on just my 3x weekly weights sessions, plus my job to count as enough for cardio, but i know i should be doing more.

I wondered if someone would pick up on my thyroid figures, that tsh is a bit high isn't it? Previous tests have had it around the 2 mark - don't laugh, but before taking that test i wait trying out a bit of 'iodine painting', basically rubbing iodine liquid straight on my scrotum. I'd read it can boost testosterone, but apparently it also raises tsh levels. I stopped it after that, it didn't have any positive effect on my test levels anyhow.

Kruz, can i ask a bit more about your story, why you decided to self medicate, what it's done for you etc. And for you, was it a progression from previous steroid cycling? Or were you natural before and this was your first experience with taking testosterone? Thanks in advance Kruz.
 
#8 ·
Hi Kruz, thank you for your advice. I don't do any cardio, and you're right i should do. I think in the past i've relied on just my 3x weekly weights sessions, plus my job to count as enough for cardio, but i know i should be doing more.

I wondered if someone would pick up on my thyroid figures, that tsh is a bit high isn't it? Previous tests have had it around the 2 mark - don't laugh, but before taking that test i wait trying out a bit of 'iodine painting', basically rubbing iodine liquid straight on my scrotum. I'd read it can boost testosterone, but apparently it also raises tsh levels. I stopped it after that, it didn't have any positive effect on my test levels anyhow.

Kruz, can i ask a bit more about your story, why you decided to self medicate, what it's done for you etc. And for you, was it a progression from previous steroid cycling? Or were you natural before and this was your first experience with taking testosterone? Thanks in advance Kruz.
Hi mate, I hadn't played with steroids properly before. When I was in my mid 20's I tried some of the designer orals that were around but my training and diet was shite. Maybe 2 four week cycles. 15 years or so later I'm 38, my libido has gone, my lifts are getting worse and generally staring to feel like I'm breaking. "This is it, I'm getting old" I thought.

I thought I'd try some sarms as a safer alternative to steroids but they f**ked me up horribly. Crashed my SHBG, estrogen related sides due to my test being suppressed. Felt like death.

I can't remember when trt became an idea but I'd heard people talk about it on podcasts that I listen too. It peaked my interest with all the latest studies showing how low test (under 500nmol/l) increases heart disease, strokes etc etc.

I read a book by Jay Campbell called the TOT (testosterone optimisation therapy) Bible which was very good, albeit very American. Lots of references to studies etc.

I had a phone consultation with optimale and balance my hormones but quickly realised they had a product to sell and what they were saying was the best treatment just happened to be what they were selling, namely sustanon.

NHS was a no go as I wasn't off the scale of normal, so basically just as low as all the other low test sufferers.

So self prescribed it is then. Jumped in at 250mg week.

Libido back with a vengeance, leveled of now, but it's back.

Energy is great, not feeling like falling asleep in the afternoon now.

Mood is great

Body composition. This is funny. After a month or two I thought f**k it. I'm off to Australia for Christmas I'll bump up my dosage so its like a lowish dose proper cycle(400mg week) I had already started seeing some small but noticeable changes in strength and in the mirror. These accelerated , my Mrs is complimenting my gains. Got a blood test the other day and I was only just over the top end of normal (1200ish nmol/l)Seems SIS Labs isn't the best lab to use. I would like to think this shows the impact low test can have on the ability to change your physique. I'd been spinning my wheels for a while and just bringing my levels to just about in range has been amazing for my training. I'm looking forward to trying some test from a reputable source and we'll see how that changes things.
 
#7 ·
Regarding your lab results, your test is indeed low, if you have the symptoms then TRT would make sense. Im no expert on Thyroid but like Kruz said it is not optimal at all.

Hows your diet? To be honest with you i would sort my diet and add cardio 3 times a week to improve that lipid profile. Doesnt mean you cant do that while on TRT, find a good doc, Dr. Robert Stevens seems well proffesional, stay away from other TRT clinics that will rip you off and dont have the knowledge to treat you.
 
#14 ·
Everyone - thank you to all of you for the replies / suggestions. Some differing opinions going on which made for interesting reading, and i wish this had made deciding a plan for myself easier, but unfortunately it hasn't really. If i try it, is 3 months enough time to know whether or not it was the right decision? And if it wasn't, is coming off after 3 months likely to leave me worse off?

I think, at my very core, the thought of being on any form of replacement therapy hits a mental barrier within me, which i know is irrational, but nevertheless still there in the background - the 'not natty anymore' dilemma. My whole motivation since starting out doing gym work has been based around 'old time' strongmen / natural training etc. It's just what i started reading about first, it's how i've identified myself, and has been the path i've followed for nearly 30 years. It's daft because, if low test is really my problem, and if the correct answer is replacement, then i'm just letting myself deteriorate because of......fragile ego? I was 50/50 thinking about starting today -(60mg Sun / 60mg Wed). I don't know what the hell i'm going to do now, but then i've been going through this in my head for a year now.
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
Everyone - thank you to all of you for the replies / suggestions. Some differing opinions going on which made for interesting reading, and i wish this had made deciding a plan for myself easier, but unfortunately it hasn't really. If i try it, is 3 months enough time to know whether or not it was the right decision? And if it wasn't, is coming off after 3 months likely to leave me worse off?
I would honestly get bloods done again first mate so you can get a baseline.

Starting for a 'test' period would be like doing a first cycle, albeit at 125mg instead of say 500mg. If you saw no improvement in your symptoms over those 12 weeks, then would be easy to pct off that and recovery chances would be high imo.

What testosterone do you have ready to go?
 
#24 ·
Ok, so basically i'm 48 y/o. Got nhs blood test at around age 38 ish, testosterone was approx 12nmol. Got second nhs test after two weeks taking d-aspartic acid, result was 9nmol. Was sent to endo, few months after, blood test was 14nmol - endo said all good. About 4 years later (aged around 42), read about clomud, bought some, took it. Went to docs saying i wanted a blood test - came back at 21nmol. All good, and kept on clomid (doc didn't know about the clomid). Life was good, workouts excellent, energy etc etc.

Fast forward to 2017 - started getting bad joints, aches and pains, low energy, tired from long walks on holiday with kids etc. Read about Medichecks, in 2018, got basic testosterone test - 11.7nmol (ON CLOMID STILL). Repeated test, exact same result, with bottom range free test. Stopped clomid. Several blood tests throughout 2018 - 2019, results between 7nmol to this June, just over 9nmol. As i was unsure what to do next, took new blood test this week - results above.
 
#25 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is what I would do.

Half a mil of test e or c every 10 days. 500iu of hcg twice weekly. Bloods after week 5, adjust test dose if required. See how I feel after 8-10 weeks. If I still feel shite and bloods confirm the test dose has brought me in range then I'd realise that low test isn't the problem and stop test. If I feel great I'd continue.

I'm not a doctor and I'm not recommending that you do this. It's just what I would do personally
 
#26 ·
This is what I would do.

Half a mil of test e or c every 10 days. 500iu of hcg twice weekly. Bloods after week 5, adjust test dose if required. See how I feel after 8-10 weeks. If I still feel shite and bloods confirm the test dose has brought me in range then I'd realise that low test isn't the problem and stop test. If I feel great I'd continue.

I'm not a doctor and I'm not recommending that you do this. It's just what I would do personally
Thanks Sasnak, that's the kind of straight to the point type of reply I was after.
 
#29 · (Edited by Moderator)
personally i'd pursue it though the NHS quoting/using the BSSM guidelines (it may take some time but TRT is going to be for life so will be worth getting an official diagnosis in the long run ) .

alternatively you can try and get an official diagnosis from an independent specialist and try and push it through your GP.

...or you can go self med , which comes with the downside of having to source UGL (which you never know is correctly dosed ) as well as pay for the blood tests you are going to need (for the rest of your life ).
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
personally i'd pursue it though the NHS quoting/using the BSSM guidelines (it may take some time but TRT is going to be for life so will be worth getting an official diagnosis in the long run ) .

alternatively you can try and get an official diagnosis from an independent specialist and try and push it through your GP.

...or you can go self med , which comes with the downside of having to source UGL (which you never know is correctly dosed ) as well as pay for the blood tests you are going to need (for the rest of your life ).
Thanks aqualung, sound advise as per usual. I've gone and done something stupid unfortunately. I got that result while i was at work yesterday (Saturday). I'd heard that my gp's were now doing appointments on Saturdays, so when i got home i sat in my car and phoned up - they were closed. So i went in the house and sat there for several hours struggling with my options, which were: try clomid again and restest in a few weeks, self treat with ug test, or wait for doctors appointment in the week. I don't know why, but i just got mad with myself not being able to lay out a plan and sticking to it (it's been 18 months since my first Medichecks test, and i've done nothing positive about it) - so i went and stuck 60mg test in my stomach, subq. Of course, ten minutes later i realised having just had a blood test well below nhs limits, i should have just waited and let them look into it sometime this week. I'm so mad with myself, and again with no plan that i'm happy with in my head.
 
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