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Duff

Low test results

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Good morning,  I’m hoping for some advice (maybe) or generally to have a read up on other experiences. 
 

45yr old male

physical job Lugging stuff about

always lifted weights, solid bloke never looked beach awesome

take 12.5mg sertraline daily for previous anxiety 

eat ok

always natural but absolutely no problem with peds, most mates use them.

played rugby upto last year.

5’10” 100kg

Anyway cut to the chase was feeling ‘off’ for a while, no motivation - wanted to lift and play rugby but nothing in the tank. Took online blood test and scored 4.6 which freaked me a bit so did the full GP one and scored 9.4 testosterone. They advised me over the phone to exercise, eat well and get fresh air. Ok.

Went to a private GP who has a specialist interest in TRT and lectures cardiology etc so I’m assuming he knows his game. He ran through some questions with me:

joint pain 

sex drive 

morning wood

belly fat :(

hair loss

brain fog

 

So yep I’d not considered any of these myself and he was spot on the money and said if it was him in my place he wouldn’t hesitate in taking the treatment. He’s happy to get it all done via the NHS and said first a prostate exam (bonus) and he’ll do the first dose next Friday.

 

should I go gel or injection? Do I get to choose? I am a bit scared tbh- don’t mind admitting that anonymously.

I’m not expecting big gains or a miracle cure but I’m sure it won’t hurt and hopefully allow me to play a bit more rugby, the desire is there but the ‘mojo’ hasn’t been.

Hope I’ve not rambled too much and look forward to any advice, experience or pisstaking.

 

:thumbup1:

 

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55 minutes ago, Sasnak said:

Nice to see you are getting treated on the nhs. Injections are less hassle.

When you feel better get back playing rugby. I’m still playing at 46

Good luck with it

Thanks! Not even kidding I don’t feel bad for my age reckon there’s some life yet.

my only reservation with injections is that if they don’t agree with me it’s in the system longer than gel?  Yeah the private doctor was brilliant, said no drama he’d refer me back to save money. 

 

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1 hour ago, Duff said:

my only reservation with injections is that if they don’t agree with me

I’ve never known anyone post in here who had a problem with nhs prescribed testosterone supplements. For some reason a lot seem to start on gel before moving onto nebido which is one jab every 16 weeks iirc. They monitor bloods and move the injection frequency based on trough readings I think. Something like that. I’m not on trt so can only comment on what I read in here.

What position do you play. I used to be a winger but since losing all my pace and getting a bit bigger I’ve moved into the second row/occasional prop

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Guess I’ll see what they say with gel/needle? If you don’t do trt what’s your poison? Do you self dose?

Played 7 when I had a good engine then moved down the sides into the backs and loved it. Have played every position for the 3s but I reckon I’ll play loosehead when I go back, just not into running around too much now!

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personally i found the gel a pain (you have to be careful with transference and the drying time took ages - also gave me bad eczema ) - it was tostran gel i tried for a few months.

no problems at all with nebido (though it takes some time to get dialed in ) - timescales are usually 8-12 weeks .

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6 minutes ago, aqualung said:

personally i found the gel a pain (you have to be careful with transference and the drying time took ages - also gave me bad eczema ) - it was tostran gel i tried for a few months.

no problems at all with nebido (though it takes some time to get dialed in ) - timescales are usually 8-12 weeks .

Thanks-

Had a quick google and nebido seems decent. 
 

makes me laugh I was always too scared of using peds and now about to get a test shot from the doc....

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FWIW, I’m on tostran and it is a bit of a pain in the hole but seems to be less messing than the nebido. I’ve found a nice routine of applying it pre-bed. Whilst I’m waiting for it to dry, I’ll read or watch something on the iPad as I’m unwinding and then either put a t-shirt or PJ pants on (depending on the application area) and go to sleep.

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On 10/13/2019 at 8:13 AM, Duff said:

Good morning,  I’m hoping for some advice (maybe) or generally to have a read up on other experiences. 
 

45yr old male

physical job Lugging stuff about

always lifted weights, solid bloke never looked beach awesome

take 12.5mg sertraline daily for previous anxiety 

eat ok

always natural but absolutely no problem with peds, most mates use them.

played rugby upto last year.

5’10” 100kg

Anyway cut to the chase was feeling ‘off’ for a while, no motivation - wanted to lift and play rugby but nothing in the tank. Took online blood test and scored 4.6 which freaked me a bit so did the full GP one and scored 9.4 testosterone. They advised me over the phone to exercise, eat well and get fresh air. Ok.

Went to a private GP who has a specialist interest in TRT and lectures cardiology etc so I’m assuming he knows his game. He ran through some questions with me:

joint pain 

sex drive 

morning wood

belly fat :(

hair loss

brain fog

 

So yep I’d not considered any of these myself and he was spot on the money and said if it was him in my place he wouldn’t hesitate in taking the treatment. He’s happy to get it all done via the NHS and said first a prostate exam (bonus) and he’ll do the first dose next Friday.

 

should I go gel or injection? Do I get to choose? I am a bit scared tbh- don’t mind admitting that anonymously.

I’m not expecting big gains or a miracle cure but I’m sure it won’t hurt and hopefully allow me to play a bit more rugby, the desire is there but the ‘mojo’ hasn’t been.

Hope I’ve not rambled too much and look forward to any advice, experience or pisstaking.

 

:thumbup1:

 

It could just be your age and anxiety making you feel crap. I went through a similar thing and did a blood test and my test levels were below the minimum guidelines. So I went on TRT and to be perfectly honest, it made no difference to the way I felt at all. I think it was more my anxiety that got the better of me, so I've changed meds and I now feel a million times better. Mind you it made blasting so much easier since I hummed an harred for years but too scared to inject myself. Lol

Not to say if you really need to be on TRT you should ignore it, but don't think it's a miracle drug that will make you feel 18 in an instant. 

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1 hour ago, MFM said:

It could just be your age and anxiety making you feel crap. I went through a similar thing and did a blood test and my test levels were below the minimum guidelines. So I went on TRT and to be perfectly honest, it made no difference to the way I felt at all. I think it was more my anxiety that got the better of me, so I've changed meds and I now feel a million times better. Mind you it made blasting so much easier since I hummed an harred for years but too scared to inject myself. Lol

Not to say if you really need to be on TRT you should ignore it, but don't think it's a miracle drug that will make you feel 18 in an instant. 

MFM - really curious what you got prescribed  that has helped with the anxiety, do you mind saying what you use?

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1 hour ago, Seppuku71 said:

MFM - really curious what you got prescribed  that has helped with the anxiety, do you mind saying what you use?

Of course not. I was on Citalopram initially, and although it sorted me out short term it didn't work for very long. I was on various doses up to the maximum dose which didn't help. I then went on to Venlavaxine. I'm on 150mg daily which is the normal maintenance dose and I'm feeling a hundred times better.

If you get panic attacks, there is nothing that works like Clonazepam for immediate relief. It's like a miracle drug for me which almost instantly reverses all the symptoms. It was really hard to get it prescribed though as my GP refused at first. So I saw a psychiatrist privately and told him how well it works. He then suggested to my GP to prescribe it.

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1 hour ago, MFM said:

Of course not. I was on Citalopram initially, and although it sorted me out short term it didn't work for very long. I was on various doses up to the maximum dose which didn't help. I then went on to Venlavaxine. I'm on 150mg daily which is the normal maintenance dose and I'm feeling a hundred times better.

If you get panic attacks, there is nothing that works like Clonazepam for immediate relief. It's like a miracle drug for me which almost instantly reverses all the symptoms. It was really hard to get it prescribed though as my GP refused at first. So I saw a psychiatrist privately and told him how well it works. He then suggested to my GP to prescribe it.

Ah, had to look that one up, but basically it's a serotonin / norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.  Never been on those, only ssri's. Glad to hear you're doing well with it. The whole anxiety / depression thing can mess your life up if you don't find some way of coping with it. I went through a bad stage many years ago (long story short i was arranging a wedding, buying a house etc with my long time fiance, but i was just going along with it and didn't really want to. When the reality sunk in what i was doing, i went full blown breakdown mode). Anyhow, told the doc i couldn't sleep. He prescribed me paroxetine - horrible, horrible experience for me, absolutely zombified me, no positive emotions whatsoever so i just stopped it. Some years later, another life crisis - asked the quack for sertraline as i'd read it was great and not like paroxetine. This was much much worse for me (extreme stimulation, inability to feel pleasure, i could hear a joke i knew was funny but not get the right emotional response, like humour was blocked). I gave it several weeks of hell before i quit, then got terrible withdrawals. I was using ghb to get through them, got addicted to that, so ended up at the docs again. He gave me valium, and i think it saved my life as i took it for a week, tapered off that, and then i was ok(ish). Over the years i've tried many meds for the situational anxiety i sometimes get. The best, by far was a research chem benzo called pyrazolam. It's virtually impossible to get now, and it's a shame as in my opinion it's a perfect anti anxiety med, non sedating, acts i think on just a2 and a3 sub units of the gaba receptor, and after two years straight of my using it daily to cope with a new job i'd started, i ran out but got no withdrawals at all. I don't think you'd get that with any other benzo. Nowadays i use kratom to boost my mood, pregabalin when under stress, and etizolam in emergencys (or late night post workout stim insomnia, and to be honest sometimes for fun but not often). 

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6 minutes ago, Seppuku71 said:

Ah, had to look that one up, but basically it's a serotonin / norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.  Never been on those, only ssri's. Glad to hear you're doing well with it. The whole anxiety / depression thing can mess your life up if you don't find some way of coping with it. I went through a bad stage many years ago (long story short i was arranging a wedding, buying a house etc with my long time fiance, but i was just going along with it and didn't really want to. When the reality sunk in what i was doing, i went full blown breakdown mode). Anyhow, told the doc i couldn't sleep. He prescribed me paroxetine - horrible, horrible experience for me, absolutely zombified me, no positive emotions whatsoever so i just stopped it. Some years later, another life crisis - asked the quack for sertraline as i'd read it was great and not like paroxetine. This was much much worse for me (extreme stimulation, inability to feel pleasure, i could hear a joke i knew was funny but not get the right emotional response, like humour was blocked). I gave it several weeks of hell before i quit, then got terrible withdrawals. I was using ghb to get through them, got addicted to that, so ended up at the docs again. He gave me valium, and i think it saved my life as i took it for a week, tapered off that, and then i was ok(ish). Over the years i've tried many meds for the situational anxiety i sometimes get. The best, by far was a research chem benzo called pyrazolam. It's virtually impossible to get now, and it's a shame as in my opinion it's a perfect anti anxiety med, non sedating, acts i think on just a2 and a3 sub units of the gaba receptor, and after two years straight of my using it daily to cope with a new job i'd started, i ran out but got no withdrawals at all. I don't think you'd get that with any other benzo. Nowadays i use kratom to boost my mood, pregabalin when under stress, and etizolam in emergencys (or late night post workout stim insomnia, and to be honest sometimes for fun but not often). 

What set me off was the difficult birth of my daughter where there were complications which dragged on for two days. From having  never had anxiety in my life I just woke up the next morning completely f*cked. Crippling anxiety that lasted for months, thought I was going to lose my mind. Some people are scared to leave the house. I was scared sitting inside the house. Haha.

Luckily I have a family of crazies with lots of medication I've tried over time. Propranalol helps a lot too if you need to face a room full of clients or speak publicly. Otherwise I'd probably crawl up into a ball and cry.

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22 minutes ago, MFM said:

What set me off was the difficult birth of my daughter where there were complications which dragged on for two days. From having  never had anxiety in my life I just woke up the next morning completely f*cked. Crippling anxiety that lasted for months, thought I was going to lose my mind. Some people are scared to leave the house. I was scared sitting inside the house. Haha.

Luckily I have a family of crazies with lots of medication I've tried over time. Propranalol helps a lot too if you need to face a room full of clients or speak publicly. Otherwise I'd probably crawl up into a ball and cry.

Lol, yes i know that feeling as i have to be in meetings now and then and there's something about sitting around a table and having to talk that terrifies me - put me with the same people but not around a table and for some reason i'm fine. I forgot about the propranolol, i've been using that too for years after reading about it in an old book called 'Life Extension', very useful med.

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Interesting side note the anxiety- my 12.5mg sertraline is perfect, takes the edge off life well. Since dropping to that level I’ve been eating much better, better ‘impulse’ control.

 

the TRT-

 

Went back Friday, lost my bum virginity to a prostate test :o and I have a pump of trostan to use. The doc said see how you go and if you’re happy then we’ll maybe move to injections- but he said gel is fine and he’d be happy to stay with it. 

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In case of interest- ran out of tostran, none available anywhere so now on Testogel. Not sure if it’s working but only been a month :) think I feel better...and have dropped some stubborn belly fat. 

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I’m prescribed the tostran gel and yes it is a pain to get hold of had to visit 5 different pharmacy’s last week to find any! 
 

Ive been on a month, endo started me on 6 pumps per day in the morning that is 60mg a day of testosterone gel. I have deffo noticed a difference but not as much as I expected. My natural test was pretty much non existent. I’m waiting for more bloods atm to help dial dose in.

What dose did you start with if you don’t mind saying? Did your endo also prescribe HCG and Proviron?  I’m going to ask for that too next visit I want to try to help fertility.

Cheers

 

 

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On 13/10/2019 at 12:05 PM, Sasnak said:

I’ve never known anyone post in here who had a problem with nhs prescribed testosterone supplements. For some reason a lot seem to start on gel before moving onto nebido which is one jab every 16 weeks iirc. They monitor bloods and move the injection frequency based on trough readings I think. Something like that. I’m not on trt so can only comment on what I read in here.

What position do you play. I used to be a winger but since losing all my pace and getting a bit bigger I’ve moved into the second row/occasional prop

Ha ha I think that’s all of us over 40 move inwards towards the scrum lol

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Well.
Not sure this testogel works, gone up from 40.5mg to 60mg daily after my blood test last week was 9! 
 

might ask for the needle at this rate.

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4 hours ago, Duff said:

Well.
Not sure this testogel works, gone up from 40.5mg to 60mg daily after my blood test last week was 9! 
 

might ask for the needle at this rate.

I don’t know if testogel isn’t formulated differently but with Tostran It’s 60mg as the lowest therapeutic dose so maybe you’ve just been under dosing?

re some posts above, if a pharmacy doesn’t have it in, they can just order it. If you get in there early doors they normally have it in same day or at least the next day. Saves driving to 5 or 6 to find one that has it in

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28 minutes ago, faipdeooiad said:

I don’t know if testogel isn’t formulated differently but with Tostran It’s 60mg as the lowest therapeutic dose so maybe you’ve just been under dosing?

re some posts above, if a pharmacy doesn’t have it in, they can just order it. If you get in there early doors they normally have it in same day or at least the next day. Saves driving to 5 or 6 to find one that has it in

I was originally on tostran but it’s unavailable, nobody can even order it in. The testogel you have to slap loads on in comparison. I’m tempted to skip straight to 60mg tbh but that’s loads of testogel it gets everywhere!

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