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flint2017

531 pr sets or 5's pro

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Hello all 

So I've read the 531 

So the question is I m going to start 531 but confused about 5s pro or original + sets. 

Have anyone used 5s pro?  Any reviews?  

And how to implement 531 for twice a week frequency,if I am in the gym 6 days a week. 

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not heard of 5 pro 

is this a variant Jim has put out or some bastardized internet template of 531? 

for 2x per week freq typically youd just stagger all the workouts forward 

squat and then deadlift is your primary assistance 

bench and ohp is your primary assistance 

and vice versa 

back on upper days, functional core work on lower days 

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2 hours ago, flint2017 said:

Hello all 

So I've read the 531 

So the question is I m going to start 531 but confused about 5s pro or original + sets. 

Have anyone used 5s pro?  Any reviews?  

And how to implement 531 for twice a week frequency,if I am in the gym 6 days a week. 

I'm following BBB 5s pro (you could find it on 531 Forever).

Basically  week 1:

Warm up

Main work=65% 1x5; 75% 1x5; 85% 1x5

BBB=50% 5x10

Assistance (Push/Pull/Legs 25-50 reps)

No joker/PR sets, only 3x5 with main lifts.

On week 2, you have to change the percentages, but sets are the same 3x5, and so on...

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I'd stick to only doing 531 on each lift once a week, though you can work each muscle twice a week with it. I've done an upper/lower split with 531 on several cycles and found it to work really well. Here's a 531 upper/lower I posted here a while ago https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/319189-switching-to-a-bro-split/?do=findComment&comment=6030381

If you're going for something lower in volume and you actually wanted to hit each lift twice a week and not variants of them, then you could of course, as said above, hit each exercise as an assistance.

With 531 I wouldn't recommend actually lifting 6 days a week. If you absolutely must go to the gym though then you could use one of your days doing mobility work and the other doing conditioning work.

5s pro is good, you'll probably have to back off the weight a bit to like 85% training max instead of 90% though. You don't have to stick to either/or though, you could run traditional 531 for a cycle or two and then 5s pro for a bit. @swole troll 5s pro is a template from Beyond 531 IIRC, basically you follow the original program in terms of weights and sets but you perform 5 reps on every set, as said above though you'd use a bit less weight via reducing the percentage of your training max as there's obviously more volume.

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12 minutes ago, nWo said:

I'd stick to only doing 531 on each lift once a week, though you can work each muscle twice a week with it. I've done an upper/lower split with 531 on several cycles and found it to work really well. Here's a 531 upper/lower I posted here a while ago https://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/topic/319189-switching-to-a-bro-split/?do=findComment&comment=6030381

If you're going for something lower in volume and you actually wanted to hit each lift twice a week and not variants of them, then you could of course, as said above, hit each exercise as an assistance.

With 531 I wouldn't recommend actually lifting 6 days a week. If you absolutely must go to the gym though then you could use one of your days doing mobility work and the other doing conditioning work.

5s pro is good, you'll probably have to back off the weight a bit to like 85% training max instead of 90% though. You don't have to stick to either/or though, you could run traditional 531 for a cycle or two and then 5s pro for a bit. @swole troll 5s pro is a template from Beyond 531 IIRC, basically you follow the original program in terms of weights and sets but you perform 5 reps on every set, as said above though you'd use a bit less weight via reducing the percentage of your training max as there's obviously more volume.

egh I don't like the sound of it personally 

even if Wendler himself wrote it I do think Jim is sort of beating a dead horse with all these templates trying to keep his already relevant program still relevant and talked about 

maybe it's just because when I find something that works I stick with it until it doesn't and Jim has recognized that there is many out there not like that that need a constant new stimulus not for growth but for their own mental masturbation purposes so he feels the needs to keep chugging out new templates for the ADHD lifters. 

I like treating 531 as a pyramid of importance with 531 progression on the barbell lifts being right at the top with spot lights on 

anything that interferes with this progress irrelevant of what study on volume or frequency you may have read it gets disposed of as progressing those barbell lifts each week and progressing to the next is the number one priority. 

I'll do this by any means necessary and that can in the past result in me dropping down to as little as 8 sets per body part and training with a once per week frequency , minimal assistance and f**k all accessory work   

progressing to another week of bench press is going to do far more for my tris than adding in redundant rope extensions at a cost to my 531 bench progress.


(sorry mate ranted there, sometimes I start replying to someone and then it ends up like I'm just public speaking with no thought to the post I was originally quoting) 

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38 minutes ago, swole troll said:

egh I don't like the sound of it personally 

even if Wendler himself wrote it I do think Jim is sort of beating a dead horse with all these templates trying to keep his already relevant program still relevant and talked about 

maybe it's just because when I find something that works I stick with it until it doesn't and Jim has recognized that there is many out there not like that that need a constant new stimulus not for growth but for their own mental masturbation purposes so he feels the needs to keep chugging out new templates for the ADHD lifters. 

I like treating 531 as a pyramid of importance with 531 progression on the barbell lifts being right at the top with spot lights on 

anything that interferes with this progress irrelevant of what study on volume or frequency you may have read it gets disposed of as progressing those barbell lifts each week and progressing to the next is the number one priority. 

I'll do this by any means necessary and that can in the past result in me dropping down to as little as 8 sets per body part and training with a once per week frequency , minimal assistance and f**k all accessory work   

progressing to another week of bench press is going to do far more for my tris than adding in redundant rope extensions at a cost to my 531 bench progress.


(sorry mate ranted there, sometimes I start replying to someone and then it ends up like I'm just public speaking with no thought to the post I was originally quoting) 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of it either tbh. As you said, the original 531 works and whatever your goal, it's a solid workout starter than basically ensures progress in the long term, with other non-training things in place of course. Personally for me it's just that, a tool to provide solid progressive overload over time, then for the rest of the workout I'll do what I need to do to grow maximally and will change that part regularly to keep things interesting, but the 531 starter always stays. Even if you're like me and don't squat or deadlift anymore, I use 531 on the Pendlay row and leg press as main exercises where it's just such a simple and reliable scheme for those big workout starters. 

I do the same if I'm on my laptop at times mate lol, very rarely type out very long posts on my phone cause it takes too fu**ing long, but if I'm on my laptop I can type 120 words a minute and I before I know it I've written an essay :lol:

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1 hour ago, swole troll said:

egh I don't like the sound of it personally 

even if Wendler himself wrote it I do think Jim is sort of beating a dead horse with all these templates trying to keep his already relevant program still relevant and talked about 

maybe it's just because when I find something that works I stick with it until it doesn't and Jim has recognized that there is many out there not like that that need a constant new stimulus not for growth but for their own mental masturbation purposes so he feels the needs to keep chugging out new templates for the ADHD lifters. 

I like treating 531 as a pyramid of importance with 531 progression on the barbell lifts being right at the top with spot lights on 

anything that interferes with this progress irrelevant of what study on volume or frequency you may have read it gets disposed of as progressing those barbell lifts each week and progressing to the next is the number one priority. 

I'll do this by any means necessary and that can in the past result in me dropping down to as little as 8 sets per body part and training with a once per week frequency , minimal assistance and f**k all accessory work   

progressing to another week of bench press is going to do far more for my tris than adding in redundant rope extensions at a cost to my 531 bench progress.


(sorry mate ranted there, sometimes I start replying to someone and then it ends up like I'm just public speaking with no thought to the post I was originally quoting) 

 

pretty much summed it up there , 531 is all about the main work and not about the assistance,  as wendler says dont major in the minors.

4 hours ago, flint2017 said:

Hello all 

So I've read the 531 

So the question is I m going to start 531 but confused about 5s pro or original + sets. 

Have anyone used 5s pro?  Any reviews?  

And how to implement 531 for twice a week frequency,if I am in the gym 6 days a week. 

 

i think you would be best sticking to the program as written and doing 3/4 days a week, you wont gain anything more doing 6 days and it will more than likely be detrimental to your goals to do so.

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On 27/09/2019 at 11:01 AM, swole troll said:

egh I don't like the sound of it personally 

even if Wendler himself wrote it I do think Jim is sort of beating a dead horse with all these templates trying to keep his already relevant program still relevant and talked about 

maybe it's just because when I find something that works I stick with it until it doesn't and Jim has recognized that there is many out there not like that that need a constant new stimulus not for growth but for their own mental masturbation purposes so he feels the needs to keep chugging out new templates for the ADHD lifters. 

I like treating 531 as a pyramid of importance with 531 progression on the barbell lifts being right at the top with spot lights on 

anything that interferes with this progress irrelevant of what study on volume or frequency you may have read it gets disposed of as progressing those barbell lifts each week and progressing to the next is the number one priority. 

I'll do this by any means necessary and that can in the past result in me dropping down to as little as 8 sets per body part and training with a once per week frequency , minimal assistance and f**k all accessory work   

progressing to another week of bench press is going to do far more for my tris than adding in redundant rope extensions at a cost to my 531 bench progress.


(sorry mate ranted there, sometimes I start replying to someone and then it ends up like I'm just public speaking with no thought to the post I was originally quoting) 

Agreed. 531 is kind of a simplified version of Bigger Faster Stronger, which will probably have been the program Wendler used in high school. That's really the point though, as I think he came up with 531 after being burned out with the conjugate system and geared lifting.

Beyond 531 is really as much as anyone needs, I started reading 531 Forever when it came out but that's where it gets completely ridiculous and is really just for the hardcore Wendler obsessives.

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I'm back to 531 myself while cutting as goals have changed to stay lean/aesthetic and keep some decent strength.

I looked at the 531 forever book it just confused me, seems like a load of made up random templates to me.

I'm following 531 as normal, amrap on the heaviest lift. My extra work is then the same lift for 5x10 at 50% following bbb. Followed by a few accessories to finish off the body part.

Ie shoulders 

Press 531 + 5x10 @50%

Lateral raise 3x12

Rear delts 3x12

Face pulls 3x12 

This is for 4 days a week, no way I could do more I've just started and its kicking my arse especially on a cut, but I'm feeling very worked after the session.

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10 minutes ago, AestheticManlet said:

I'm back to 531 myself while cutting as goals have changed to stay lean/aesthetic and keep some decent strength.

I looked at the 531 forever book it just confused me, seems like a load of made up random templates to me.

I'm following 531 as normal, amrap on the heaviest lift. My extra work is then the same lift for 5x10 at 50% following bbb. Followed by a few accessories to finish off the body part.

Ie shoulders 

Press 531 + 5x10 @50%

Lateral raise 3x12

Rear delts 3x12

Face pulls 3x12 

This is for 4 days a week, no way I could do more I've just started and its kicking my arse especially on a cut, but I'm feeling very worked after the session.

 

Was looking at forever myself after reading the first two but it only seems to be available as a hard copy.

BBB is a good template , right now I'm running FSL after running BBB a few times myself. Really like the wendler routines for there simplicity and effectiveness. 

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Imho that was always the beauty of wendlers original program design.... take something complex (ish)....... progression,periodisation..... and simplify it for the masses and it worked....tremendously, it also made jim a milliionaire.

Kudos to the man, but as others have said it really is just a sprinkling of seasoning on an otherwise perfectly cooked steak...

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