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Jay12345

Peoples idea of a 'cruise'

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1 hour ago, Sparkey said:

25 Posts is the minimum, and he's over that

Not that it really matters, but in accordance to membership levels, it states 'registered for 30 days AND 25 posts... so he hasn't been registered long enough to get PM

 

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On 27/03/2019 at 4:57 PM, Jay12345 said:

You'd probably hazard a guess incredibly wrong then? I aren't bigging myself up but I find it quite annoying when someone says I know as much as the average user. I have spent a good fortune getting to where I have and I am still no where near, spent countless nights and days away from my wife and family to care for others and have pretty muched sacrificed the last 9 years of my life to get to a stage where I am no where near a consultant in endocrinology yet, yeh I choose to and yeh I didn't have to but I did because I care about the health of others because it certainly wasn't for money seeing as I am in 100k plus of debt.

How would you like it if I said about whatever profession you are in, you know just as much as an average joe? I can assure you, where my long term goals are I wish to be and will be a leading person in my field and I am well on track to doing so with the research, audits and further study under good doctors that I am currently doing. So yeh, that comment pissed me off

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6 hours ago, larus said:

That!!! Admittedly it's a public forum but Im not sure why some people start a topic pretending to educate others when - doctor degree or not - they don't have a clue in the first place!!!! 49mg of test per week is ridiculous, and so its 75.

125mg of Test weekly, yes that is TRT and bring my level at mid range about  2nd or 3rd day post injection (Test E). Same results with Test prop 40mg every 2 days but that is a real pain. 

been off for 3 months (of which January was PCT so technically doesnt count...)...I feel like a loser as I wanted to stay off till summer but wtf Im gonna go back on tomorrow. 

 

Yes, if you read the discussion from start to finish you can see we all agree on that and that isn't the point I was making in the first place. My point made was cruises aren't cruises anymore, they are cycles... I was saying try and keep closer to a TRT dose for HEALTH purposes, not for growth. Somebody once again making a presumptive statement about not having a clue... What do you know what I know from one forum post? 

 

3 hours ago, vs-Admin said:

@Lloyd H Can you try again? I just tested with mobile and desktop and it's working on my end. Updated Jay's profile, his usergroups were mixed up. 

Niall

Thank you buddy, all sorted.

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 8:49 AM, Lloyd H said:

Interesting thread, so many variables and debates always interested in peoples views on different dosages and compounds as you learn something new every day on here. Currently cruising on 150mg test e every 7 days on week 12. Before cruising i was natty so decided to do a cruise to lose some weight first before bulking back up. currently at 14% body fat down from 21% when i started. Also running adex at 0.25 same day as jab this put my e2 bang on in the e2 range with bloods to confirm. Since introducing hcg last week at 500iu a week and getting bloods done to see how i react to the hcg it has topped my e2 out of range so will add in another 0.25 adex to bring it back down in range on a Thursday so there a balance of adex Monday/Thursday

Ive tried to send you my recent bloods (trt check plus) where a few of them are out of range but says your not accepting messages through PM.

 

 

Should be able to send along now buddy.

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8 hours ago, Jay12345 said:

Yes, if you read the discussion from start to finish you can see we all agree on that and that isn't the point I was making in the first place. My point made was cruises aren't cruises anymore, they are cycles... I was saying try and keep closer to a TRT dose for HEALTH purposes, not for growth. Somebody once again making a presumptive statement about not having a clue... What do you know what I know from one forum post? 

 

Thank you buddy, all sorted.

 

I understand your point but its wrong. A cruise is NOT trt.  Cruise is not a medical term, it comes from the BB community and granted involves higher mg than TRT. Every where, every forum I have been in the last 4 years cruise is defined as the least amount of Test (to keep it simple but some cruise on anavar or either lighter aas) you need to mantain your body weight. 

If I go from 500mg of test and 300 of Deca  to 100mg of Test weekly...i will lose quite a bit, not everything but enougth to annoy me. If I go to 200 per week....i keep all of it pretty much  including strenght. I won't gain anything but I will keep 95% of what i gained. That is the purpose of cruising, not keeping you somewhat in the normal Teststosterone range (which at 100 would be quite in the lower part of the range for half of the week assuming one weekly injection of test e) but letting you keep the gains at a mucb more moderate dose. I agree its not healthy but its healthier than a full cycle or blast. 

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4 hours ago, larus said:

I understand your point but its wrong. A cruise is NOT trt.  Cruise is not a medical term, it comes from the BB community and granted involves higher mg than TRT. Every where, every forum I have been in the last 4 years cruise is defined as the least amount of Test (to keep it simple but some cruise on anavar or either lighter aas) you need to mantain your body weight. 

If I go from 500mg of test and 300 of Deca  to 100mg of Test weekly...i will lose quite a bit, not everything but enougth to annoy me. If I go to 200 per week....i keep all of it pretty much  including strenght. I won't gain anything but I will keep 95% of what i gained. That is the purpose of cruising, not keeping you somewhat in the normal Teststosterone range (which at 100 would be quite in the lower part of the range for half of the week assuming one weekly injection of test e) but letting you keep the gains at a mucb more moderate dose. I agree its not healthy but its healthier than a full cycle or blast. 

Again, read my post properly. I never said what you are stating, I said bring cruise doses closer to what would be a replacement dose. Have you tried 'cruising' on a lower dose? Making sure your diet and training is kept tight? I can guarantee you won't lose what you are claiming.  Also, why would 100mg be in the lower half of range for half of a week? Do you understand half lives? Lets for arguments sake say you take 100mg on day 1 and it has a half life of one week that means by day 7 there is 50 mg by another week there is 25mg another week there is 12.5mg another week there is 6.25mg and so forth. Understand the actions of drugs the ADME of drugs and get back to me, that isn't a dig its just I know my pharmacology and I like people to actually understand drug actions when using them.

My point was cruising is just a cycle at the doses people are claiming and you have just proved that in your own cruising by saying you keep all of your muscle and strength which in essence is saying that dose of testosterone is supra physiologically high enough to maintain the size strength and performance you were on a full cycle, in essence you cruise is still a cycle to maintain the size you made on higher doses. Does that not say it all? That perhaps doses could be lowered and size still maintained? We seem to just stick rigidly to what we are told or read... have a play around with doses and see how your body reacts. When i used to cruise, I used to cruise on 100mg a week and I felt great and maintained everything.. Albeit that is human grade testosterone which may play into the factor of these high doses as most not ALL but most UG labs now are just terrible and I wouldn't trust the dosing as far as I could throw it.

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1 hour ago, Jay12345 said:

Again, read my post properly. I never said what you are stating, I said bring cruise doses closer to what would be a replacement dose. Have you tried 'cruising' on a lower dose? Making sure your diet and training is kept tight? I can guarantee you won't lose what you are claiming.  Also, why would 100mg be in the lower half of range for half of a week? Do you understand half lives? Lets for arguments sake say you take 100mg on day 1 and it has a half life of one week that means by day 7 there is 50 mg by another week there is 25mg another week there is 12.5mg another week there is 6.25mg and so forth. Understand the actions of drugs the ADME of drugs and get back to me, that isn't a dig its just I know my pharmacology and I like people to actually understand drug actions when using them.

My point was cruising is just a cycle at the doses people are claiming and you have just proved that in your own cruising by saying you keep all of your muscle and strength which in essence is saying that dose of testosterone is supra physiologically high enough to maintain the size strength and performance you were on a full cycle, in essence you cruise is still a cycle to maintain the size you made on higher doses. Does that not say it all? That perhaps doses could be lowered and size still maintained? We seem to just stick rigidly to what we are told or read... have a play around with doses and see how your body reacts. When i used to cruise, I used to cruise on 100mg a week and I felt great and maintained everything.. Albeit that is human grade testosterone which may play into the factor of these high doses as most not ALL but most UG labs now are just terrible and I wouldn't trust the dosing as far as I could throw it.

I wouldn't go as far as using the word 'terrible' but agree that most ugl these days are either underdosed or bunk, some labs still produce decent oils though to be fair.

Orals are a different ball game...

I have tried several different orals to confirm this including dbol/Anadrol/winny....mostly complete shite.....and therefore i will not ever bother with ugl orals ever again.

But you get what you pay for i guess...

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27 minutes ago, jjtreml said:

I wouldn't go as far as using the word 'terrible' but agree that most ugl these days are either underdosed or bunk, some labs still produce decent oils though to be fair.

Orals are a different ball game...

I have tried several different orals to confirm this including dbol/Anadrol/winny....mostly complete shite.....and therefore i will not ever bother with ugl orals ever again.

But you get what you pay for i guess...

No, I agree with you. There are a couple of UG labs that I used in the past that I would return too but so, so many I have used that I just know I am no longer 'on' when I used and to no surprise my blood work reflected this. SIS was one of those labs, everyone raved about it and I tried on 3 separate occasions...every single time terrible and my blood work reflected it. 

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2 hours ago, Jay12345 said:

Again, read my post properly. I never said what you are stating, I said bring cruise doses closer to what would be a replacement dose. Have you tried 'cruising' on a lower dose? Making sure your diet and training is kept tight? I can guarantee you won't lose what you are claiming.  Also, why would 100mg be in the lower half of range for half of a week? Do you understand half lives? Lets for arguments sake say you take 100mg on day 1 and it has a half life of one week that means by day 7 there is 50 mg by another week there is 25mg another week there is 12.5mg another week there is 6.25mg and so forth. Understand the actions of drugs the ADME of drugs and get back to me, that isn't a dig its just I know my pharmacology and I like people to actually understand drug actions when using them.

My point was cruising is just a cycle at the doses people are claiming and you have just proved that in your own cruising by saying you keep all of your muscle and strength which in essence is saying that dose of testosterone is supra physiologically high enough to maintain the size strength and performance you were on a full cycle, in essence you cruise is still a cycle to maintain the size you made on higher doses. Does that not say it all? That perhaps doses could be lowered and size still maintained? We seem to just stick rigidly to what we are told or read... have a play around with doses and see how your body reacts. When i used to cruise, I used to cruise on 100mg a week and I felt great and maintained everything.. Albeit that is human grade testosterone which may play into the factor of these high doses as most not ALL but most UG labs now are just terrible and I wouldn't trust the dosing as far as I could throw it.

I think your problem is that you have never tried what you preach even if you say you did.  Im a very moderate AAS user and have done blast and TRT, blast and cruise and also like currently, nothing just good diet and training. 

Read this: When I went fron full cycle to 100mg  test, I lose quite a bit. If i stay at 200sh, I lose almost nothing only some vascularity and perhaps a bit of strenght. This is the same for 95% of us. Perhaps you fall in the 5% of those who can keep the gain with nothing..lucky you! 

Also first of all if i inject 100mg of test E i really inject 75/80sh at best. The half life concept is a good guideline but Im one of those who doesnt guess what I can test and probably do ( sometimes also for paranoia) 7+ bloods per year. And 6 days after a 125mg injection of pharma test my Test level is s**t. Mid point is at about 24/25sh nmol. 

As far as your second point, keeping the gains is easier than making them and you need less. Also its not forever it's for a few months. If I stay at 200mg for 1 years (i havent tried this) but I bet I will start losing more. And by your same logic if you can keep all of your gains with only 100mg well...you are on cycle too? Clearly not.. 

Look...you have made your point and I have made mine: Cruising is not TRT and is not healthy but healthier. And ..no you dont get to keep your gains at 100mg week.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

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12 minutes ago, larus said:

I think your problem is that you have never tried what you preach even if you say you did.  Im a very moderate AAS user and have done blast and TRT, blast and cruise and also like currently, nothing just good diet and training. 

Read this: When I went fron full cycle to 100mg  test, I lose quite a bit. If i stay at 200sh, I lose almost nothing only some vascularity and perhaps a bit of strenght. This is the same for 95% of us. Perhaps you fall in the 5% of those who can keep the gain with nothing..lucky you! 

Also first of all if i inject 100mg of test E i really inject 75/80sh at best. The half life concept is a good guideline but Im one of those who doesnt guess what I can test and probably do ( sometimes also for paranoia) 7+ bloods per year. And 6 days after a 125mg injection of pharma test my Test level is s**t. Mid point is at about 24/25sh nmol. 

As far as your second point, keeping the gains is easier than making them and you need less. Also its not forever it's for a few months. If I stay at 200mg for 1 years (i havent tried this) but I bet I will start losing more. And by your same logic if you can keep all of your gains with only 100mg well...you are on cycle too? Clearly not.. 

Look...you have made your point and I have made mine: Cruising is not TRT and is not healthy but healthier. And ..no you dont get to keep your gains at 100mg week.

Lets agree to disagree.

 

Yes, you are completely correct because 100mg a week is still supra- physiological in terms of dosing and I think,in fact I know... people rely too much on AAS for growth. 
 

And yes you're right cruising is healthier. 

My point comes down to several factors, most of which is the harsh effect of long term, CONTINUOUS use on things like lipoproteins, BP, liver function, valvular insufficiency, hypertrophy of the heart, HF etc. My point i am trying to get across is that I am seeing MORE and consultants have explained it is the most they have ever seen of young people coming through the doors with conditions that just didn't come up 20-30 years ago and in their history steroid use played a large part. I am seeing it happen, not reading it, not hearing about it but seeing it... that is real time data and yes I am putting this together as well as I can and hopefully publishing something. 

I appreciate your comments and thanks for the discussion.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/3/253

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21040407

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCHEARTFAILURE.109.931063

 

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250mg of sust every 10 days has me feeling good right now, and my last couple of cruises. Before that it was 125mg a week. 

It's an individual thing. I usually lose a few kgs and  some strength, but nothing more than I'll gain back within the first 4 weeks of my next cycle. 

I'm cruising at the moment, until the start of March. Doesn't bother me, a break from constant pinning is always welcome and I like the idea of giving my body a break from gear. 

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5 hours ago, PsychedUp said:

250mg of sust every 10 days has me feeling good right now, and my last couple of cruises. Before that it was 125mg a week. 

It's an individual thing. I usually lose a few kgs and  some strength, but nothing more than I'll gain back within the first 4 weeks of my next cycle. 

I'm cruising at the moment, until the start of March. Doesn't bother me, a break from constant pinning is always welcome and I like the idea of giving my body a break from gear. 

what happens in march will you pct or blast or not take anything at all? 

Ive been cruising for over a year now, I feel good and maintained decent size but I could do with giving my body a break

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6 hours ago, Darrenwins said:

what happens in march will you pct or blast or not take anything at all? 

Ive been cruising for over a year now, I feel good and maintained decent size but I could do with giving my body a break

I'll be blasting mate, 800mg test and 500mg deca for 12 weeks. I blast and  cruise for 12 weeks each. Before my blasts were for 16 weeks but now I realised 12 weeks is sufficient.

I've only done a PCT twice, every other time it's been blast and cruise with the exception of a 5 month period where I came off everything cold turkey. 

Do you plan to keep on cruising or come off, or blast again? Cruising for over a year will have given your body a decent break I'd imagine?

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Cruising is for the most part, just for people who can't be bothered/don't want to PCT or to come off and therefore blast and cruise has become the norm for a lot of people which is worrying.

I've said it before that nobody under the age of 30 even 35 should be doing it, no matter what justification they throw out there for it - much better to come off PCT and go again when levels reset, but lots of people do it so they get defensive and jump down your throat when you call it out. 

If you're older and on a genuine self-administered TRT dose (100mg or similar) but decide to chuck in an oral, another compound or bump your dose up for a holiday or the summer fair enough but it shouldn't be done year upon year by youngsters which seems to be happening more and more, most of the time they don't monitor bloods enough and their test levels most of the time are lower than they would be naturally!

Each to their own though I guess. 

 

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14 minutes ago, TALBOTL said:

Cruising is for the most part, just for people who can't be bothered/don't want to PCT or to come off and therefore blast and cruise has become the norm for a lot of people which is worrying.

I've said it before that nobody under the age of 30 even 35 should be doing it, no matter what justification they throw out there for it - much better to come off PCT and go again when levels reset, but lots of people do it so they get defensive and jump down your throat when you call it out. 

 

what makes you say that?

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9 minutes ago, swole troll said:

what makes you say that?

The fact that HCG is rarely used amongst other things and that over time you are potentially causing implications when trying to get yourself back to baseline test levels, seems kind of stupid to potentially put yourself in a position where you need to inject for the rest of your life at that age, suppose if that or fertility isn't an issue  though then my point is null and void. 

I just think like a lot of beginner information on the net (which is where a lot of people go initially) normalises blast and cruise as the easier options which it is no doubt but fails to mention potential issues of doing it for a prolonged period at a young age, you very rarely see well written beginner information talking about PCT now. 

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6 minutes ago, TALBOTL said:

The fact that HCG is rarely used amongst other things and that over time you are potentially causing implications when trying to get yourself back to baseline test levels, seems kind of stupid to potentially put yourself in a position where you need to inject for the rest of your life at that age, suppose if that or fertility isn't an issue  though then my point is null and void. 

I just think like a lot of beginner information on the net (which is where a lot of people go initially) normalises blast and cruise as the easier options which it is no doubt but fails to mention potential issues of doing it for a prolonged period at a young age, you very rarely see well written beginner information talking about PCT now. 

I agree that it's not a decision to be taken lightly but it is the best route in regard to sports performance and long term mental health (assuming you will otherwise be going on and off all year)

fact of the matter is blast and cruise or cycle you'll eventually be dependent if there is any kind of long term usage

and I believe any would be steroid user should consider a life long dependence on exogenous hormones even before their first 8 week anavar cycle as it's always a possibility as is continued more destructive usage which will of course increase likelihood of permanent hypogonadism

VERY few run a successful first steroid cycle and proceed to never use again.

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