Jump to content

Recommended Posts

On 7/22/2020 at 2:59 PM, Baka said:

@ElChapo

Having hight RBC and hematocrit , and low ferritin levels. is it bad having low ferritin levels even if RBC is high ?

That's always very tricky. With low ferritin, your high RBC will still have trouble transporting oxygen. How high is the RBC and how low is the ferritin? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, ElChapo said:

Generally, no.  Some people are susceptible to that and you will see it in some athletes and bodybuilders even when contest/competition lean.  I would consider switching off tren and trying winstrol. It will have a similar effect to tren without the gyno/puffyness. I find it more effective than trenbolone in fact.  

Thanks. Yes I've since come off but it's only been a few days. I've a bit of gyno from it now which I usually always get when running 19 nors. Will this subside when tren clears my system or will i need a month on nolva again? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2020 at 11:22 AM, Jaybird said:

@ElChapo

Firstly, I just want to thank you for taking the time out to share your wealth of knowledge here, I really appreciate it and have loved reading through this entire thread. Its has been hugely educational and I appreciate the way you have a knack of simplifying things  (which IMO is always a sign of someone who genuinely knows what they're talking about).

I apologise if these have been asked before but for the sake of clarification....

1) I don't have a whole lot of experience with experimenting with various AAS compounds, namely just Test, Deca and Anavar (although I've been on TRT for several years and am fairly clued up on getting bloods done...etc.)

I love Anavar but I have never run it more than 6 weeks at a time as I was under the assumption orals should only been run for 6 weeks due to their hepatoxicity. 

At 50-100mg, how long do you think would be a good run for? I understand the main impact it has is on lipids more so than liver (TUDCA and NAC should hopefully lessen that slightly).  Superdrol is another oral I'm intrigued by but not sure how toxic that is in comparison to var or what dose.

2) What is your opinion on DIM as a mild Aromatise Inhibitor? Does it actually do anything?

3) Arimidex vs Aromasin - whats your opinion on Aromasin being "better for lipids"?  is this just something that has been regurgitated or is there some truth the idea that aromasin affects lipids less so than Arimidex?  Its typically a lot more expensive and I've always used it but not sure if there is a big difference?

4) Apart from regular cardiovascular exercise and keeping blood pressure in check - would you say there are any supplements actually worth taking to help mitigate the potential damage on cycle?  There seem to be a flux in supplement companies now promoting and selling cycle/health support supplements - citrus bergamot, astragalus, liver support...etc.  I know you've suggested TUDCA and NAC when running orals, but is there anything else actually worthwhile?  Im talking more specifically things to help ON cycle, not things you'd use year around like fish oils, multi vitamins..etc. 


Im not sure if a lot of these products do much or whether they give people a false sense of security to up the dose lol

Thank you again

1. Anavar is the safest, most mild oral AAS used for bodybuilding that there is. People take it year round for HIV induced cachexia, healing from burns and wounds.  I generally recommend 8-12 weeks of oral AAS for intermediate/advanced AND responsible body builders/athletes who really want to see how powerful these compounds really are. TUDCA/NAC is a complete game changer which negates the direct mechanism by which oral AAS cause liver toxicity. Mainly TUDCA keeps bile flow healthy which prevents cholestasis (impaired bile flow) and NAC bolsters the liver's endogenous anti-oxidant capacity, further increasing it's resistance to damage. NAC is so potent it's use as prescription drug as an antidote for tylenol overdosing in hospitals (Known as Mucomyst).

 

2. DIM is a poor AI. What it might do is increase the metabolism of estradiol into estrones. Estrone is actually an estrogen that is x 10 weaker than estradiol.  Do not use DIM as an AI.  It may have some benefit for breast cancer prevention though in women. Note that most men do not need AI and many will find that mood, performance and sex drive are better without AI up until a certain point. High normal and high E2 is generally linked to better libido and mood, but some people do feel best with lower estradiol levels.

 

3.  Doesn't make a huge difference, like i said, most people are better off not using AI until absolutely needed and then only very carefully in as low a dose as possible.  Nolvadex/Raloxifene is another game changer. Gone are the days of panic when some gyno formed, now you have two compounds proven to completely reverse gynecomastia in almost 90% of cases.  I would lean towards arimidex, easier to find, cheaper, effective and easier to dose.

 

4.  Stay lean, do regular cardio, keep stress levels low, get good sleep, stay hydrated, enjoy life.  Take a multivitamin to cover any deficiencies, do not smoke, drink in moderation. Those are the best supplements.  If you want something strong that works, pycnogenol 100-200 mg is very good for circulation, brain/skin health etc. It's really good.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, ElChapo said:

That's always very tricky. With low ferritin, your high RBC will still have trouble transporting oxygen. How high is the RBC and how low is the ferritin? 

3 weeks ago , I had 18 RBC and 60 ferritin , I gave blood just after the blood test. My RBC must have went down to 16.5-17 and ferritin to 0-20 ? 

But I already feel the symptoms of high RBC since some days , so I guess it's at 17.5-18 already. 

Been taking green tea with each meals , stopped vitamin C. been taking naringin and grapefruit seed extract since 2 years now everyday. also eating every 2 days grapefruit .

I may be at 200mg test , or 250 max but it seems my RBC gets higher faster on test P , that s the only thing I changed recently and also taking low dose T3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, ElChapo said:

Probably won't work. Aspirin may reduce the "stickyness" of blood cells, but it does not "thin the blood" that's a misnomer. There is no such thing as a blood thinner, they are anti-coagulants. 

 

Aspirin might lower the risk of blood clots. If you keep running into high HCT levels with TRT dose test, you should get a sleep study done to rule out sleep apnea. If you have sleep apnea, you have two options  1. Get very lean; i have this work in many people. Getting to under 12% body has reverse the apnea in some people and it's a natural remedy.  2. If you have sleep apnea, use bipap machine which will pump air into your lungs while you sleep like darth vader.  The problem is you go hypoxic during sleep, so your body ramps up RBC production to compensate.

 

6 mcg T3 should have zero effect on RBC. Even hyperthyroidism isn't usually associated with high RBC.   60 mg E3D should do the job for you and some fat loss.  

Thank you . I stopped aspirin today anyway.

I'm at 8.5% BF atm , may not be 100% correct but I'm at 10% max and still on a small deficit and a lot of cardio.

I really don't think I have sleep apnea , I don't even snore or rarely.

I know it's from the test that my RBC is increasing and it's quite annoying because I m not even blasting , just using small doses and donate every 2 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/23/2020 at 7:57 AM, pma111 said:

I noticed in an earlier post near the start of the thread that you mentioned pine bark and aspirin are perhaps quite similar /related drugs in some ways. Is that because they both act to an extent as  blood thinners and are the effects on blood thinning between the two comparative? I've never quite understood why aspirin is useful part or some peoples heart health stacks but notice you recommend pine bark as a core staple in a heart health stack.

I also wanted to understand better if say you had gi bleeding say from an ulcer why blood thinning herbs or medications is very dangerous? 

They are both derived from components of tree bark.  Aspirin aka salicylic acid was derived from tree bark and then synthesized in the lab.   Pycnogenol does have anti-coagulant/fibronolytic properties. 

 

If you have GI bleeding and you Aspirin, you will bleed even more because it reduces clotting.  Patient on anticoagulants have to be closely monitored for these issues. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, stuey99 said:

What's the shortest safe period of time between each donation mate? I'm told I've got to wait 16 weeks

I don't have HCT to hand, but it was in range. I drink at least 3 litres of water a day

Do you recommend 75mg aspirin a day till I get levels down

Depends on many factors, like how high your baseline HCT/HGB was and how high/low your ferritin. 

 

In range tells me nothing at all. I need a number.  In range can be very low or very high. 

 

Aspirin will not significantly reduce HCT levels. It may only reduce the risk of blood clotting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, delbo said:

Thanks. Yes I've since come off but it's only been a few days. I've a bit of gyno from it now which I usually always get when running 19 nors. Will this subside when tren clears my system or will i need a month on nolva again? 

For some people, it goes away on it's own. I would not use tren if i were you. You are one of the sensitive people (like myself).  There are better AAS like winstrol/superdrol, don't think "you need tren" like internet would have you believe.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Baka said:

3 weeks ago , I had 18 RBC and 60 ferritin , I gave blood just after the blood test. My RBC must have went down to 16.5-17 and ferritin to 0-20 ? 

But I already feel the symptoms of high RBC since some days , so I guess it's at 17.5-18 already. 

Been taking green tea with each meals , stopped vitamin C. been taking naringin and grapefruit seed extract since 2 years now everyday. also eating every 2 days grapefruit .

I may be at 200mg test , or 250 max but it seems my RBC gets higher faster on test P , that s the only thing I changed recently and also taking low dose T3

Bro, you gotta nip it in the bud because you are going to be running in circles if you don't.  You did good reducing your overall dose. Your ferritin is probably anemic range, so you should supplement heavy iron. You are taking 2 steps forward and 4 steps back right now.  Get the sleep study.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ElChapo said:

Bro, you gotta nip it in the bud because you are going to be running in circles if you don't.  You did good reducing your overall dose. Your ferritin is probably anemic range, so you should supplement heavy iron. You are taking 2 steps forward and 4 steps back right now.  Get the sleep study.

Ok I'll stop the green tea each meal first , and supplement iron. I hope RBC/htc won't get too high this way but let's try.

For the sleep test I'm going to research 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, ElChapo said:

Make sure to check ferritin. Blood donation will dump a ton of ferritin and can make you anemic if you are not careful.  AAS can cause abnormal heart rhythm. Echocardiogram is one of the best ways to actually look at the heart and blood vessels for structural changes, damage and function. ECG doesn't tell you too much.

 

How long were you on that stack of AAS? How many years have you used AAS? Do you own a blood pressure monitor?  Do you smoke? 

Thank you for the response.

My GP didn't tell me the ferritin levels but I should have asked really. I'll get my own test done soon. I'm definitely going to discuss the echocardiogram with my GP as he wants me to go back for more bloods in 4 weeks.

As for usage, I was on that stack for 6 weeks before the complications, before that was cruising 3 months of test e at 150mg/week. Being using on and off for 5 years but have been doing B&C the last 2. Never smoked. I have own BP monitor which I check daily, around 120 - 130 systolic, 60 - 70 diastolic. Resting pulse around 70.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats your view on all these labtests from janoshik, lab4tox, chemtox etc? Are they trustworthy? It seems like almost every UGL they test is dosed on point a little overdosed.

 

Which powerlifting coaches would you suggest? Doesnt have to be in the UK. Do you even think a coach is worth it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ElChapo ok I've read and watched videos about ferritin , CBC , on TRT and steroids.

I've learnt a lot and yes having low ferritin levels like I have now from donation 3 times in 6 months was a bad idea.

Now I know why I m losing a lot of hairs too , more than before. 

I also have blurry vision , may be from too low ferritin or too high RBC.

I started eating more red meat and taking iron with vitamin C AND folates ( I was deficient )to increase ferritin levels , But I have some questions : It should increase even more my RBC production , right ? 

Since a week my anxiety got back up , and I can't seem to concentrate and with the blurry vision too.. I've got the same feeling when my RBC is too high but atm I don't think it's more than 18 ; so could it be from Ferritin deficiency ? I guess it is even though the day I donated blood and the days after I felt so good .

Im doing the sleep apnea test soon , but normaly I don't have it but to be sure

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry @ElChapo, Asking for a friend,

His face bloats up real bad so easy, he has to stay at 8% or his cheeks gets round like a watermelon.. 

I think the bloat is a combination of water and glycogen retention (basically your face muscles gets bigger cuz of glycogen and water)

He tried;
-superdrol: slight bloat from glycogen
-tren: bloats him
-Masteron: no effect
-Proviron: no effect
-NPP: didnt bloat much but He was on letro and mast

Honestly what steroids make you dry without causing glycogen retention?
I want something that builds muscle without any glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin. I guess DHT compounds are best for this.

Stuff for cycle without bloating:

-200/300mg test prop
-50-100mg winstrol ED
-50mg Anavar ED
-50-100mg proviron ED
-600-800mg masteron enanthate

& maybe staying on some safe diuretic?. Anyone got experience with this?

Would that build decent muscle mass while keeping the body dry like a desert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/25/2020 at 4:06 AM, Kahen said:

Thank you for the response.

My GP didn't tell me the ferritin levels but I should have asked really. I'll get my own test done soon. I'm definitely going to discuss the echocardiogram with my GP as he wants me to go back for more bloods in 4 weeks.

As for usage, I was on that stack for 6 weeks before the complications, before that was cruising 3 months of test e at 150mg/week. Being using on and off for 5 years but have been doing B&C the last 2. Never smoked. I have own BP monitor which I check daily, around 120 - 130 systolic, 60 - 70 diastolic. Resting pulse around 70.

Have you done heavy or extended cycles in the past? Any family history of heart disease? and what is your approximate body fat %?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/25/2020 at 5:31 AM, zariph said:

Whats your view on all these labtests from janoshik, lab4tox, chemtox etc? Are they trustworthy? It seems like almost every UGL they test is dosed on point a little overdosed.

 

Which powerlifting coaches would you suggest? Doesnt have to be in the UK. Do you even think a coach is worth it?

I do not trust janoshik tests. He was caught defrauding a client. The client sent a pack that was seized in customs and never received by Janoshik, yet Janoshik sent him fake lab results. The client got his vials back unopened and Jano was exposed as a fraud. Even before this incident i did not trust his work. That confirmed my suspicion, just my 2 cents.  I don't know about the other guys. 

 

I love anyone who focuses on the fundamentals and has walked the walk. I love Ed Coan, Mike O'Hearn is good too. They stick to the basics, no fancy s**t, and they have the results to prove it.  As for coach being worth it, depends on how far you want to go (if you compete) and how good you are at self-teaching . Many people get far without a coach, but many others benefit from a coach for direction, correcting mistakes/form, etc.  If you are just a recreational lifter, i wouldn't bother with a coach myself, but that's just me. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2020 at 8:29 AM, Baka said:

@ElChapo Having high B12 but low folates , I'm sure it s linked to my body producing too much RBC from AAS use.

Should I supplement with folates ? 

B12 and folic acid are two different vitamins.  I don't believe there is any connection with your high RBC.  Yes, if you take a good multivitamin, your folate levels should increase. Were you taking B12 injections in the past? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2020 at 10:45 AM, pma111 said:

Do you think low iron anemia could play any role in ED?

Yes, it possibly can. Low iron is linked to possible dopamine dysfunction which is directly related to libido/erections. Also, the fatigue from low iron would also interfere with libido/erections, and low iron means less oxygen/poorer circulation of oxygen to cells.  Low iron/ferritin is an underestimated issue that can really impair quality of life, both physically and mentally. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2020 at 3:06 PM, Baka said:

@ElChapo ok I've read and watched videos about ferritin , CBC , on TRT and steroids.

I've learnt a lot and yes having low ferritin levels like I have now from donation 3 times in 6 months was a bad idea.

Now I know why I m losing a lot of hairs too , more than before. 

I also have blurry vision , may be from too low ferritin or too high RBC.

I started eating more red meat and taking iron with vitamin C AND folates ( I was deficient )to increase ferritin levels , But I have some questions : It should increase even more my RBC production , right ? 

Since a week my anxiety got back up , and I can't seem to concentrate and with the blurry vision too.. I've got the same feeling when my RBC is too high but atm I don't think it's more than 18 ; so could it be from Ferritin deficiency ? I guess it is even though the day I donated blood and the days after I felt so good .

Im doing the sleep apnea test soon , but normaly I don't have it but to be sure

 

Yep, low iron/ferritin can cause hair thinning.

 

Eating iron won't automatically translate to making more RBC. Just keep an eye on it, you have no choice regardless unless you want to stay anemic.

 

Anxiety and brain fog are both possible symptoms of iron deficiency anemia, yes. It may or may not be related. You can't tell if you have sleep apnea unless you have a test. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/28/2020 at 10:57 AM, JBlast said:

Sorry @ElChapo, Asking for a friend,

His face bloats up real bad so easy, he has to stay at 8% or his cheeks gets round like a watermelon.. 

I think the bloat is a combination of water and glycogen retention (basically your face muscles gets bigger cuz of glycogen and water)

He tried;
-superdrol: slight bloat from glycogen
-tren: bloats him
-Masteron: no effect
-Proviron: no effect
-NPP: didnt bloat much but He was on letro and mast

Honestly what steroids make you dry without causing glycogen retention?
I want something that builds muscle without any glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin. I guess DHT compounds are best for this.

Stuff for cycle without bloating:

-200/300mg test prop
-50-100mg winstrol ED
-50mg Anavar ED
-50-100mg proviron ED
-600-800mg masteron enanthate

& maybe staying on some safe diuretic?. Anyone got experience with this?

Would that build decent muscle mass while keeping the body dry like a desert.

Stick to testosterone propionate.  I also get bloated face from trenbolone and test E.  Tell him to try Test P and he should have good results. Also tell him to make sure he is well hydrated. Urine should be clear or light yellow.  The best stack to stay dry/lean with no bloat is Test P and Winstrol.

 

That cycle should work but you should know that masteron doesn't do much, so you won't get much out of that 600-800 mg.   Same with the proviron. 

 

I would probably do 600-1 g mg Test P per week+100 mg Winstrol daily  with TUDCA/NAC.  Simple, cheap and very strong/effective.  Winstrol doesn't just not cause bloat, it will actually suck it out of you too.  Then he can cruise on Test P only 200-300 mg or whatever he needs to maintain his gains unless he does a PCT. 

 

I would not go as far as taking a diuretic unless you are doing it for competition day and know what you are doing.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ElChapo said:

Stick to testosterone propionate.  I also get bloated face from trenbolone and test E.  Tell him to try Test P and he should have good results. Also tell him to make sure he is well hydrated. Urine should be clear or light yellow.  The best stack to stay dry/lean with no bloat is Test P and Winstrol.

 

That cycle should work but you should know that masteron doesn't do much, so you won't get much out of that 600-800 mg.   Same with the proviron. 

 

I would probably do 600-1 g mg Test P per week+100 mg Winstrol daily  with TUDCA/NAC.  Simple, cheap and very strong/effective.  Winstrol doesn't just not cause bloat, it will actually suck it out of you too.  Then he can cruise on Test P only 200-300 mg or whatever he needs to maintain his gains unless he does a PCT. 

 

I would not go as far as taking a diuretic unless you are doing it for competition day and know what you are doing.  

Thanks, just curious,

1) do you think injectable mtren would be good? No Injectable Superdrol for the glycogen retention or water retention in muscles/skin

 

2) What do you think as far as using masteron to balance e2:dht ratio so you can avoid an ai? Broderick Chavez also suggests to use high doses of masteron as main anabolic, paired with test, do you think that a dumb idea?


3) By only using about 700mg of test p and 700mg of winstrol per week, which level of muscle mass can you reach? That’s basically ‘only’ 1.4 grams of total gear. Which aas would you add to increase the total dosage, always considering the bloating thing. Now maybe is it worth considering adding masteron?

 

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×