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MattTheDon

Lantus Insulin

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Does anyone use this?  I'm gonna start doing some research as i can get my hands on 6 boxes of the stuff which is quite alot of pens.

Iv read it's better to use fast acting stuff but but is lantus a viable source can it be run on its own alongside aas

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Fine without GH. I've run it on gear and when natural and was fine. 

Slow vs rapid and which is better is an ongoing debate. Personally I preferred slow-acting. More manageable and had better results. 

Downside for me is slin interferes with digestion after a while. Something to do with excess something in the gut.

Check out Dave Palumbo's slin reports on RX Muscle on Youtube and Jordan Peter's videos on his site. 

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On 5/18/2017 at 0:02 PM, Magsimus said:

Fine without GH. I've run it on gear and when natural and was fine. 

Slow vs rapid and which is better is an ongoing debate. Personally I preferred slow-acting. More manageable and had better results. 

Downside for me is slin interferes with digestion after a while. Something to do with excess something in the gut.

Check out Dave Palumbo's slin reports on RX Muscle on Youtube and Jordan Peter's videos on his site. 

Can't see nothing on JP's site regarding insulin ? although it does state to get full access to all his vids for £6.99 a month :) 

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9 hours ago, gymfreak2010 said:

Can't see nothing on JP's site regarding insulin ? although it does state to get full access to all his vids for £6.99 a month :) 

Yeah, you have to be a member. He talks of exogenous insulin, its use in contest prep and his views on fast- and slow-acting slin.

He feels fast-acting is the way forward and there isn't really a place for slower stuff, however, many other accounts I've read or seen (some of Palumbo's, for example) believe the opposite. 

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13 hours ago, Magsimus said:

Yeah, you have to be a member. He talks of exogenous insulin, its use in contest prep and his views on fast- and slow-acting slin.

He feels fast-acting is the way forward and there isn't really a place for slower stuff, however, many other accounts I've read or seen (some of Palumbo's, for example) believe the opposite. 

the whole subject of Insulin is so conflicted, seems every one has their own believes / protocol etc

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5 hours ago, gymfreak2010 said:

the whole subject of Insulin is so conflicted, seems every one has their own believes / protocol etc

Like everything, I imagine it all comes down to personal preference and 'what works for you'. 

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On 16/05/2017 at 4:57 PM, swole troll said:

 

Ive been studying lantus for a while.... think @swole troll blog is pretty much best explanation of what is possible.... it really is a great insulin, i read it was often abused in past by top pros like markus ruhl and few others, but used few weeks on few weeks off i think results are pretty decent!!??

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92 - 120kg between the 2 pictures


U6LTZQW.jpg


sure there's fat and water gain but all my lifts went up considerably (all im really interested in) and i only implemented the slin after the gear had 'settled' so that i could judge how much extra weight id put on

if i got stronger be it through water ret or lbm is irrelevant for my particular goals but either way whilst in a caloric surplus and using AAS a strength increase will result in increased muscle mass 

myself, @Jakemaguire and @MRSTRONG all found lantus to be better overall when compared to rapid acting slin (correct me if im wrong those that are tagged) 

im not saying it IS better, just that the measurable results i got from both were more profound with lantus on every occasion i used it over a rapid acting slin 

ive never used the low dose with each meal that i believe you suggest is the best method? so until ive tried that i wont rule out rapid acting for me personally 

you've been using insulin a lot longer than me and have a much better knowledge of the stuff so id like to know why is keeping insulin elevated throughout the day with smaller doses any better than just taking a basal slin and just having that do the all day nutrient shuttling? 

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Lantus blew novorapid out of the water for me rapid weight gain and improved strength and endurance plus walking around with a permanent pump and always hungry. From what I have read online lantus increases igf levels in the muscle dramatically but it needs to be lantus not just any long acting insulin I tried levimire and the results where underwhelming. Lantus also is easier to use one injection in the morning keeps you anabolic all day and even if you hypo it's very easy to manage and you see it coming a mile off 

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@swoletroll how am i keeping insulin elevated throughout the day with smaller doses? i do not prescribe to that, in fact, by using faster insulin you do not keep insulin elevated through the day, yet with insulin like Lantus you do, granted there is not much of a peak but it is artificially elevated for 18-14hrs keeping insulin elevated through the day like this is not good as continuous exposure to elevated exogenous insulin levels will lead to reduced insulin sensitivity, subsequent Glut-4 down-regulation, and impaired endogenous insulin output, none of which are desirable from either a health or muscle growth standpoint

in that picture on the left had you just dieted? you was eating in a surplus on the left picture and using AAS so how much of that gain (muscle wise) do you put down to the Lantus?

i think you can assume that if you are eating in a surplus and you are getting stronger then you will have increased your muscle size and you are definitely bigger but do you think that you needed the Insulin to reach the physique on the right?

listen if you like to use higher dose long acting Insulin then use it but i would certainly debate that that is considered the best method......

47 minutes ago, Jakemaguire said:

Lantus blew novorapid out of the water for me rapid weight gain and improved strength and endurance plus walking around with a permanent pump and always hungry. From what I have read online lantus increases igf levels in the muscle dramatically but it needs to be lantus not just any long acting insulin I tried levimire and the results where underwhelming. Lantus also is easier to use one injection in the morning keeps you anabolic all day and even if you hypo it's very easy to manage and you see it coming a mile off 

 
 
 
 

can you please elaborate on your point about being Anabolic all day as that is scientifically impossible, all insulin has an effect on IGF-1 levels but then training elevates Growth Hormone levels but you will never see a physical improvement from that, just because something has an effect on a hormone does not mean that effect has a physical advantage.

just to point out Insulin in its self is NOT Anabolic it is a transporter of nutrients to cells

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8 minutes ago, Pscarb said:

@swoletroll how are you keeping insulin elevated throughout the day with smaller doses? i do not prescribe to that, in fact, by using faster insulin you do not keep insulin elevated through the day, yet with insulin like Lantus you do, granted there is not much of a peak but it is artificially elevated for 18-14hrs keeping insulin elevated through the day like this is not good as continuous exposure to elevated exogenous insulin levels will lead to reduced insulin sensitivity, subsequent Glut-4 down-regulation, and impaired endogenous insulin output, none of which are desirable from either a health or muscle growth standpoint

in that picture on the left had you just dieted? you was eating in a surplus on the left picture and using AAS so how much of that gain (muscle wise) do you put down to the lantus?

i think you can assume that if you are eating in a surplus and you are getting stronger then you will have increased your muscle size and you are definitely bigger but do you think that you needed the Insulin to reach the physique on the right?

listen if you like to use higher dose long acting Insulin then use it but i would certainly debate that that is considered the best method......

can you please elaberate on your point about being Anabolic all day as that is scientifically impossible, all insulin has an effect on IGF-1 levels but then training elevates Growth Hormone levels but you will never see a physical improvement from that, just because something has an effect on a hormane does not mean that affect has a physical advantage.

just to point out Insulin in its self is NOT Anabolic it is a transporter of nutrients to cells

I'm not here to try and debate sorry if I worded it wrong i literally felt as if I was growing non stop I'm just commenting my experience and that was that lantus gave me significantly better growth than levimire or novorapid 

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3 minutes ago, Jakemaguire said:

I'm not here to try and debate sorry if I worded it wrong i literally felt as if I was growing non stop I'm just commenting my experience and that was that lantus gave me significantly better growth than levimire or novorapid 

 

but a forum is all about a debate? its about people representing their experiences and others accepting them or debating them its how forums work

my point in all of this is so people who are new to BB or insulin do not get a false impression of any drug and a newbie reading that you was anabolic all day would give them the wrong impression, you was pumped all day because you elevated insulin which is to be expected, buddy

please don't take my disagreeing with you as an argument as that is not what it is 

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2 minutes ago, Pscarb said:

but a forum is all about a debate? its about people representing their experiences and others accepting them or debating them its how forums work

my point in all of this is so people who are new to BB or insulin do not get a false impression of any drug and a newbie reading that you was anabolic all day would give them the wrong impression, you was pumped all day because you elevated insulin which is to be expected, buddy

please don't take my disagreeing with you as an argument as that is not what it is 

Okay mate but I was just responding to swole trolls tag and sharing what I have found personally 

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2 hours ago, Pscarb said:

@swoletroll how am i keeping insulin elevated throughout the day with smaller doses? i do not prescribe to that, in fact, by using faster insulin you do not keep insulin elevated through the day, yet with insulin like Lantus you do, granted there is not much of a peak but it is artificially elevated for 18-14hrs keeping insulin elevated through the day like this is not good as continuous exposure to elevated exogenous insulin levels will lead to reduced insulin sensitivity, subsequent Glut-4 down-regulation, and impaired endogenous insulin output, none of which are desirable from either a health or muscle growth standpoint

in that picture on the left had you just dieted? you was eating in a surplus on the left picture and using AAS so how much of that gain (muscle wise) do you put down to the Lantus?

i think you can assume that if you are eating in a surplus and you are getting stronger then you will have increased your muscle size and you are definitely bigger but do you think that you needed the Insulin to reach the physique on the right?

listen if you like to use higher dose long acting Insulin then use it but i would certainly debate that that is considered the best method......

Yes I had just dieted down in the pic on left 

I attributed the extra gain to me being a good 6 weeks into the cycle allowing for the rapid glycogen retention to settle then I added in the lantus and scale weight blew up despite the surplus remaining the same 

My lifts also increased along with my bodyweight which as I mentioned above is not indicative of tissue growth but the added strength whilst in a surplus will create new tissue 

I do not believe AAS alone could have netted me the same progress in the same time frame as I did with the lantus on board

I really don't know much on the method of smaller doses of slin with meals, thanks for clearing that up 

I'll give that a go the next time I use slin and perhaps change my stance on which i prefer as the once per day shot of rapid hasn't been as effective as lantus ime

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45 minutes ago, swole troll said:

Yes I had just dieted down in the pic on left 

I attributed the extra gain to me being a good 6 weeks into the cycle allowing for the rapid glycogen retention to settle then I added in the lantus and scale weight blew up despite the surplus remaining the same 

My lifts also increased along with my bodyweight which as I mentioned above is not indicative of tissue growth but the added strength whilst in a surplus will create new tissue 

I do not believe AAS alone could have netted me the same progress in the same time frame as I did with the lantus on board

I really don't know much on the method of smaller doses of slin with meals, thanks for clearing that up 

I'll give that a go the next time I use slin and perhaps change my stance on which i prefer as the once per day shot of rapid hasn't been as effective as lantus ime

 

its an impressive weight gain but i do think when you think of the rebound effect from the cut then the surplus then the AAS i do not think Lantus would have contributed that much certainly not more than fast insulin....

 

many feel better on Lantus because of the extreme all day pumps you get but like i said in my last post if you are happy with the progress then that really is all that matters buddy

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@Pscarb Thoughts on this? Would this give Lantus an edge over other types of insulin in your opinion?

Lantus has also been shown to significantly increase systemic IGF-1 levels as compared to other insulin types in both healthy and diabetic subjects.

Slawik M, Schories M, Busse Grawitz A, Reincke M, Petersen KG. Treatment with insulin glargine does not suppress serum IGF-1. Diabet Med. 2006 Jul;23(7):814-7.

Ekström K, Salemyr J, Zachrisson I, Carlsson-Skwirut C, Ortqvist E, Bang P. Normalization of the IGF-IGFBP axis by sustained nightly insulinization in type 1 diabetes. Diabetes Care. 2007 Jun;30(6):1357-63. Epub 2007 Mar 19.

A couple of advantages to Lantus:

  • It has a significantly higher affinity to binding to the IGF-1 receptor in skeletal muscle tissue (much higher than endogenous insulin even)
  • It removes the need to micro-manage the timing of your injections, to alleviate pathway desensitization, etc

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22 minutes ago, DLTBB said:

@Pscarb Thoughts on this? Would this give Lantus an edge over other types of insulin in your opinion?

Lantus has also been shown to significantly increase systemic IGF-1 levels as compared to other insulin types in both healthy and diabetic subjects.

Slawik M, Schories M, Busse Grawitz A, Reincke M, Petersen KG. Treatment with insulin glargine does not suppress serum IGF-1. Diabet Med. 2006 Jul;23(7):814-7.

Ekström K, Salemyr J, Zachrisson I, Carlsson-Skwirut C, Ortqvist E, Bang P. Normalization of the IGF-IGFBP axis by sustained nightly insulinization in type 1 diabetes. Diabetes Care. 2007 Jun;30(6):1357-63. Epub 2007 Mar 19.

A couple of advantages to Lantus:

  • It has a significantly higher affinity to binding to the IGF-1 receptor in skeletal muscle tissue (much higher than endogenous insulin even)
  • It removes the need to micro-manage the timing of your injections, to alleviate pathway desensitization, etc
 

no to be fair as what does "significantly higher affinity" mean in real world resuts? if i train with absalute intensity i can raise my Growth Hormone by 500% but physically that is not seen

using lantus does not alleviate the desensitisation in fact its use must be kept short due to its impact on Glut 4, insulin sensativity and insulin desensatisation plus when using faster insulin there is no need to micro manage timings, that is only applicable if the person has no clue and injects large amounts

Lantus can and does send people over the top into a Hypo case trouble is it can happen at any time, Faster insuoin can aswell bu tbecause you will have just injected it you are more aware so prepared.

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I was looking at lantus some time ago but kind of came to the conclusion that @Pscarb espouses (with regards to insulin sensitivity). When I was first getting to grips with insulin I found an article that compared fast acting insulin to a grenade and long acting insulin to a machine gun, the article is written in a sensicle way but lacks on the actual science. I think anyone reading it would probably use Lantus.

As I was researching more and being guided to more short acting insulin I ended up with Humalog and using it post workout only. I was always interested in Lantus though, mostly for the hunger aspect (I find eating 3500 calories hard). I found that GHRP-2 works on hunger though so started using that with other peptides instead of looking at Lantus again.

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On 30/05/2017 at 3:50 PM, Pscarb said:

but a forum is all about a debate? its about people representing their experiences and others accepting them or debating them its how forums work

my point in all of this is so people who are new to BB or insulin do not get a false impression of any drug and a newbie reading that you was anabolic all day would give them the wrong impression, you was pumped all day because you elevated insulin which is to be expected, buddy

please don't take my disagreeing with you as an argument as that is not what it is 

sometimes i think @Pscarb can come across a little strong and over whelming.... and members are reluctant to argue back, but im really glad paul took his time to write this... i think it just confirms that sometimes his point is with genuine interest into the other persons perception..... even if sometimes it is a bit Blunt!!! lol :)

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