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AChappell

Novices Classes at Finals

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Should we have a novice class at a British finals or should all novice competitors who have qualified compete along with the Mr classes at a finals???

A friend of mine was discussing this with me the other day there. I can see arguments for and against this so it will be interesting to see what others think. I suppose the rationale is once a competitor has qualified for a finals (usually as a top 2 or 3) he is no longer perceived as a novice. It would reduce the number of classes at a show which for me I'd perceive to be a good thing and might make the Mr classes deeper. I'm all for reducing the number of classes so I kind of like that idea, but it's easy to see how you might put competitors off competing. There are obviously loads of other things worth considering but those were my initial thoughts.

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Interesting topic Andy.

Another point is that inbetween the qualifiers and finals the lads may have competed elsewhere.

Ladies don't have a novice class and we are straight in the the experienced competitors which provides an extreme learning curve, but I believe that is not a bad thing. It increases the standard right from the go get and to be honest lots of classes does get boring, plus I bet some of the novices might prefer to have a bash at the open classes trophy.

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True Rose, the lads might have competed elsewhere. At the risk of introducing a new class sometimes I feel like once a competitor makes it to the final the class might be called something like "First Season" for those who generally are in their first season while the others might have to move into the novice.

Nae learning easy ride for the laddies? Does it tend to discourage competitors from competing at the finals??

If you move novices into the Mr Classes would you retain more competitors towards the end of the show??

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True Rose, the lads might have competed elsewhere. At the risk of introducing a new class sometimes I feel like once a competitor makes it to the final the class might be called something like "First Season" for those who generally are in their first season while the others might have to move into the novice.

Nae learning easy ride for the laddies? Does it tend to discourage competitors from competing at the finals??

If you move novices into the Mr Classes would you retain more competitors towards the end of the show??

I don't know the answer Andy - my experiences are based on competing in ladies classes in which there's more going on than simply experience. For example 'do I fit this class'.

My observations have been that some who place 5th and 6th and are invited to the finals just won't bother, others who feel their physique isn't up to scratch or have other plans personal or competitively, won't go through the to finals. BNBF pick the first 2 from each class so I don't think the 5th and 6th issue would be a problem.

My choice was even though I only came 4th in the first qualifier I did in Toned, I still did the finals because I knew a competitor who had gone from 4th in Qualifying to 1st at the Brits AND I wanted experience of the Brits for my stab at the hard, trained figure which I knew I'd move into the following year. Area qualifiers and the Brits for that federation are also relatively close together, and there are plenty of open shows around that time of year too so it's easier to go bang, bang, bang, done rather than wait a month or three. That gap however allows athletes much room to improve.

So swings and roundabouts really.

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True Rose, the lads might have competed elsewhere. At the risk of introducing a new class sometimes I feel like once a competitor makes it to the final the class might be called something like "First Season" for those who generally are in their first season while the others might have to move into the novice.

Nae learning easy ride for the laddies? Does it tend to discourage competitors from competing at the finals??

If you move novices into the Mr Classes would you retain more competitors towards the end of the show??

I don't know the answer Andy - my experiences are based on competing in ladies classes in which there's more going on than simply experience. For example 'do I fit this class'.

My observations have been that some who place 5th and 6th and are invited to the finals just won't bother, others who feel their physique isn't up to scratch or have other plans personal or competitively, won't go through the to finals. BNBF pick the first 2 from each class so I don't think the 5th and 6th issue would be a problem.

My choice was even though I only came 4th in the first qualifier I did in Toned, I still did the finals because I knew a competitor who had gone from 4th in Qualifying to 1st at the Brits AND I wanted experience of the Brits for my stab at the hard, trained figure which I knew I'd move into the following year. Area qualifiers and the Brits for that federation are also relatively close together, and there are plenty of open shows around that time of year too so it's easier to go bang, bang, bang, done rather than wait a month or three. That gap however allows athletes much room to improve.

So swings and roundabouts really.

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I suppose it depends on what the individual Fed considers a "Novice".

Some say not placed top 6 at finals, other say not placed top 3 in any show. As long as they're consistent....

The thing I definitely cannot understand is having a First timers at the Finals. Everyone considers a 1st timer as someone who has never competed, so everyone in the 1st timers class at the Brits should be disqualified! :lol:

I agree with LR about the ladies Novice, Feds need to look into this. Must be demoralizing to god into your area show and be stood next to last years 2nd or 3rd place Finalist.... although, sweet as f*** if you beat them! :D

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I suppose it depends on what the individual Fed considers a "Novice".

Some say not placed top 6 at finals, other say not placed top 3 in any show. As long as they're consistent....

The thing I definitely cannot understand is having a First timers at the Finals. Everyone considers a 1st timer as someone who has never competed, so everyone in the 1st timers class at the Brits should be disqualified! :lol:

I agree with LR about the ladies Novice, Feds need to look into this. Must be demoralizing to god into your area show and be stood next to last years 2nd or 3rd place Finalist.... although, sweet as f*** if you beat them! :D

One thing that I am unsure about are competitors who have already qualified, then doing further qualifiers and thus denying the opportunity for others to take titles.

Do the BNBF stop qualified competitors from competing in subsequent qualifiers?

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Good point Neil, dam them first timers at the finals!!! I think if you compete in the first timers and qualify for the finals then you should go into the novice as a bare minimum. The UKBFF have about 20 intermediate classes at the finals. At least NABBA only have the one, or do they? The BNBF has two light and heavy if the numbers are high enough.

Rose you can compete in as many qualifiers as you want with the BNBF. One lad last year I think competed in around 5 shows trying to get an invite to the British finals. He finally nailed it in the last show.

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Good point Neil, dam them first timers at the finals!!! I think if you compete in the first timers and qualify for the finals then you should go into the novice as a bare minimum. The UKBFF have about 20 intermediate classes at the finals. At least NABBA only have the one, or do they? The BNBF has two light and heavy if the numbers are high enough.

Rose you can compete in as many qualifiers as you want with the BNBF. One lad last year I think competed in around 5 shows trying to get an invite to the British finals. He finally nailed it in the last show.

Does that mean that if someone wanted to, they could win their first qualified, then carry on competing and possibly win several qualifiers?

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Yes Rose, someone could theoretically compete and win all seven qualifiers. There is no restriction and once you pay your membership and entry to one show, it doesn't cost to enter any others.

It's not uncommon to see competitors do 2 or 3 qualifiers. You usually see competitors do this when they are either A) chasing the qualification spot for a British finals or B) novice competitors looking to gain more experience.

Some people do just like competing though or certain shows just seem to fit into their schedule.

So if we have the magic wand to change novice classes at the finals would we keep them or would we resign them to history?

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If a novice competes at a qualifier it's only right there's a class for them at the finals, its a class in it's own right just like the Mr's, Seniors or Ladies and it's often better than some of the supposed higher standards of classes.

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If they can compete at the regional show there should be a class for them at the finals in my mind, they've done no less than the guys in the open class.

Same with first timers too in my opinion.

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