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swole troll

Controlling E2... It's actually a little difficult

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15 hours ago, swole troll said:

Entirely variable depending on individual and the PEDs being used 

With dianabol and test suspension being the fastest ways to bring it back up outside of exogenous estradiol use.

So I’m on 180 mg test e and I was on 12.5 aromosin twice a week and running both for around 12 weeks but I stopped aromosin around 26 days ago. I aromatise quite easily even on 125 m test e I will be above normal medichecks eostrogen ranges. I’ve got morning erections but poor libido.

 

cheers

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7 hours ago, gavzilla said:

So I’m on 180 mg test e and I was on 12.5 aromosin twice a week and running both for around 12 weeks but I stopped aromosin around 26 days ago. I aromatise quite easily even on 125 m test e I will be above normal medichecks eostrogen ranges. I’ve got morning erections but poor libido.

 

cheers

Without bloodwork it's just a guess 

So you're assuming your e2 is high right now? 

Logic would dictate that is your issue 

But again without bloods and feeling it out we won't know.

This can be a problem with running supraphysiological dosages between cycles

You end up spinning plates. 

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15 hours ago, swole troll said:

Without bloodwork it's just a guess 

So you're assuming your e2 is high right now? 

Logic would dictate that is your issue 

But again without bloods and feeling it out we won't know.

This can be a problem with running supraphysiological dosages between cycles

You end up spinning plates. 

I do normally get bloods done but I can’t right now.

i will presume after 26 days absent of aromosin running 180 mg test e that my eostrogen would have recovered by now.

Cheers for the reply 

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Thanks @swole troll - the information here is Great. Thanks a lot for posting!!

Bit of a complex area controlling E2. I’ve heard alot about raloxifine over nolva. el chapo or ghost.recon in the AMA said it’s more effective than nolva, also implying ralox + arimidex as the  “go to” on cycle method of controlling E2. What are your thoughts? 

As I understand it: arimidex to lower e2... ralox to prevent/reduce gyno... So I should have ralox on standby, but only necessary to Run it at first signs of any symptoms? and Many are able to control e2 with just an AI? 

I’m currently on 175mg Sustanon TRT + 1000iu HCG weekly. E2 was 140pnmol on last blood test but is creeping upwards. I’m wanting to add 125mg test E in so I’m running  300mg “test” total (as a first cycle)... and I’m wondering 0.5mg armidex EOD will suffice?  

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, Pez189 said:

Thanks @swole troll - the information here is Great. Thanks a lot for posting!!

Bit of a complex area controlling E2. I’ve heard alot about raloxifine over nolva. el chapo or ghost.recon in the AMA said it’s more effective than nolva, also implying ralox + arimidex as the  “go to” on cycle method of controlling E2. What are your thoughts? 

As I understand it: arimidex to lower e2... ralox to prevent/reduce gyno... So I should have ralox on standby, but only necessary to Run it at first signs of any symptoms? and Many are able to control e2 with just an AI? 

I’m currently on 175mg Sustanon TRT + 1000iu HCG weekly. E2 was 140pnmol on last blood test but is creeping upwards. I’m wanting to add 125mg test E in so I’m running  300mg “test” total (as a first cycle)... and I’m wondering 0.5mg armidex EOD will suffice?  

Thanks!

Well it's two different pathways of preventing gynecomastia formation or enlargement. 

raloxifene and tamoxifen are SERMs, selective estrogen receptor modulators 
and their MOA is to bind to the receptor in the nipple in order to prevent oestrogen from doing so and causing glandular growth (with raloxifene being the more potent binder of the two) 

arimidex is an aromatase inhibitor, it's MOA is to deactivate the aromatase enzyme so that it cannot convert testosterone into oestrogen, subsequently lowering oestrogen levels which then prevents gyno formation 

two different approaches, both of which simply limiting the amount of oestrogen binding to the breast site in one way or another.

So yes combination treatment works and is often used in those with breast cancer.

The only thing worth noting is that tamoxifen increases the speed at which the liver metabolizes arimidex and letrozole causing a reduction in efficacy by 27 and 38% respectively so perhaps your AI isn't lowering your e2 to quite the level you are used to when using X dose however your gyno is still controlled (largely by the SERM) but blood work will still be something worth looking at should other elevated e2 symptoms arise. 

There is no interaction at all between aromasin and tamoxifen or raloxifene 

and to my knowledge there is no interaction between raloxifene, arimidex and letrozole

only tamoxifen, arimidex and letrozole. 

to your last question I don't know. you could aromatase heavily, you could respond well to AI's or equally you could respond poorly to AIs 

I can't give a cookie cutter answer, just a case of suck it and see 

also anything under 400mg isn't worth the shut down, I don't care what anyone says and they're free to start a thread and tag me in it if they wish to discuss it further (do not clutter this one with debate on this) but yes 175mg is a generous TRT. 

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It is actually very difficult and confusing. 

Now I have heard armidix, clomid, nolvadix , letrozole, aromasin 

aromasin has less side effects but armidix is more controllable. :confused1:

 

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10 hours ago, ali jumaa said:

It is actually very difficult and confusing. 

Now I have heard armidix, clomid, nolvadix , letrozole, aromasin 

aromasin has less size effects but armidix is more controllable. :confused1:

 

Correct 

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This isn’t my situation, just a hypothetical question (honest)... What would happen if you’re doing one AI, say arimidex once a week... Then you run Out of tabs or decide to switch to the equivalent dose of Aromasin (as maybe it’s all you can get hold of)...  Any issue with that? 

 
I think arimidex has a half life of 30-60 hours..

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If you are running 10x the natural testosterone levels wouldn't it make sense to have your e2 running higher than normal range as well? Of course not 10x as much but nuking it seems counter productive. If you are sensitive to gyno, then you can always run a SERM along with a moderate dose of AI.

Unless I am missing something here.

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1 hour ago, feelinfine said:

If you are running 10x the natural testosterone levels wouldn't it make sense to have your e2 running higher than normal range as well? Of course not 10x as much but nuking it seems counter productive. If you are sensitive to gyno, then you can always run a SERM along with a moderate dose of AI.

Unless I am missing something here.

When running high test everyone functions best with a certain androgen:estrogen ratio

From what I've seen that varies from estrogen being high end of normal range to significantly above range

This is why I advise, if someone needs to use an AI, find the dosage you "feel" best at...THEN get bloods done to see where that level is. Rather than using bloods to get estrogen "within ramge", because more often than not, "within range" is not where you should be

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7 minutes ago, Youdontknowme said:

Gyno isn’t the only issue though is it. Excessive bloat, moon face, balls so shrunk they’re in your groin, no libido (and possibly some form of ED. The list goes on. 
 

im with @stuey99 start low on the ai and assess feelings every week or 2 and adjust. Not saying bloods aren’t important but when it comes to Estrogen feeling is what’s important to start. Clearly keeping nolva on hand at all time’s is important but in the first month where you’re adjusting ai that’ll save you from what most consider the ‘worst’ side of e2 at that point, gyno

and as others have mentioned, some need very little ai, some need 1mg Adex a day on 500mg of test a week.
 

I’m currently using 1mg x 3 a week, last cycle I used .5 x 3 a week and bloated to f**k, big time moon face but no gyno signs. Started on that this time and nips turned into cones straight away, and lots of other high e2 symptoms. I’ve worked up to stop the bloat and moon face more than gyno and libido but using all symptoms to assess dose. 

For me, I try to control symptoms which actually effect me, rather than estrogen levels themselves

As long as my libido's good and bp is ok I'm happy

I don't even think about gyno unless I'm running dbol

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