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I think thats the mental difference between the US and the UK right now, If you are ''in range' in the UK you are deemed 'ok' however over the pond they look to get you to 'optimal'.

Its a shit situation tbh because the NHS do proactively try to get people healthier by paying for nicotene replacement therapy and fat classes etc so its not like the 'bigger picture' thinking isnt there, it just doesnt seem to stretch to men with non optimal T
Totally agree bud, its a shame they don't take it as seriously as they should, but i believe they class it as un important and probably a cost and time thing, but as we all know having an imbalance of horemones can make you feel depressed as ****, and moods like a yoyo, so to me i think its very important.
 

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What is it that is holding you back if you don't mind me asking?

For me the only thing was that I haven't
had kids yet. However I had to weigh that up against quality of life, and decided to go for it. I'll take the HCG and roll the dice.
I wouldn't sweat too much about the whole fertility thing while going on trt, the majority of people who do the correct protocol have no issues, its a shame to hear that people put up with the suffer of low T because they are scared of fertility issues, in fact some people could end up being more fertile if you take enough HCG combined with proviron when the time comes, while on trt.
 

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What is it that is holding you back if you don't mind me asking?

For me the only thing was that I haven't
had kids yet. However I had to weigh that up against quality of life, and decided to go for it. I'll take the HCG and roll the dice.
That's a good question, i'm not totally sure myself why i don't go on. I think it's a mix of different things - not wanting to accept i can't fix things, and strut around with a natural level higher than everyone else. I've lifted weights for over 30 years, never been interested in the steroid side of things, so there's probably a fear i'll regret losing my natty status and not respect myself anymore. These probably sound like stupid reasons, and maybe they are. But i'm talking about deep rooted subconscious stuff, not logical thinking. The other thing is, what if i find i felt better with a natural 11 nmol than, lets say, an injected 20 or 30 nmol level - but then i can't get back. Not recovering seems to be a common thing, especially with people around my age (50). Shutting down whatever crappy hpta i have worries me a bit if i'm honest. I think, if doing trt meant just adding to your own levels, with no recovery needed if you stop, i don't think i'd hesitate (which kinda blows my 'proud natty' theory out the water).

Having read all that back, i think it might just be i'm a bit of a pussy...
 

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That's a good question, i'm not totally sure myself why i don't go on. I think it's a mix of different things - not wanting to accept i can't fix things, and strut around with a natural level higher than everyone else. I've lifted weights for over 30 years, never been interested in the steroid side of things, so there's probably a fear i'll regret losing my natty status and not respect myself anymore. These probably sound like stupid reasons, and maybe they are. But i'm talking about deep rooted subconscious stuff, not logical thinking. The other thing is, what if i find i felt better with a natural 11 nmol than, lets say, an injected 20 or 30 nmol level - but then i can't get back. Not recovering seems to be a common thing, especially with people around my age (50). Shutting down whatever crappy hpta i have worries me a bit if i'm honest. I think, if doing trt meant just adding to your own levels, with no recovery needed if you stop, i don't think i'd hesitate (which kinda blows my 'proud natty' theory out the water).

Having read all that back, i think it might just be i'm a bit of a pussy...
There is nothing wrong with not being natty anymore, its a bit ridiculous if you think trt will cause you to lose respect for yourself, does that mean you look down your nose at people who take steroids or are on trt cos thats what it sounds like. I don't know how 25nmol would make you feel worse then 11nmol lol thats like saying 20k in your bank makes you feel better then 50k! I'm sure you are aware levels drop the older you get so in another few years that 11nmol could be 7 so where do you draw the line, its entirely up to you bud, but sometimes ignorance can be bliss, the less you know the better, i bet the majority of men your age have poor levels but because they aren't aware of it and the science behind it they don't feel too bad and just think this is a normal process with age, they won't know its because they have low t that their sex drive isn't what it was, or energy, or physique etc etc
 

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There is nothing wrong with not being natty anymore, its a bit ridiculous if you think trt will cause you to lose respect for yourself, does that mean you look down your nose at people who take steroids or are on trt cos thats what it sounds like. I don't know how 25nmol would make you feel worse then 11nmol lol thats like saying 20k in your bank makes you feel better then 50k! I'm sure you are aware levels drop the older you get so in another few years that 11nmol could be 7 so where do you draw the line, its entirely up to you bud, but sometimes ignorance can be bliss, the less you know the better, i bet the majority of men your age have poor levels but because they aren't aware of it and the science behind it they don't feel too bad and just think this is a normal process with age, they won't know its because they have low t that their sex drive isn't what it was, or energy, or physique etc etc
Well keep in mind i did say it wasn't logical thinking regarding being natty or not, but more a subconscious thing - I don't consciously look down my nose at anyone.
As to how could someone feel worse at 25 than 11nmol, - i don't know. But that's my point. It makes perfect sense to think having higher levels on trt are better than natural, lower levels. But i read on forums every day, people asking how to get off, saying it wasn't worth it or that their symptoms were worse. And yes, it might be they had a crap protocol. But when you're unsure about starting something major like this, that's meant to be 'for life', reading half the people on it saying, "awesome, life changing" and the other half saying "worst decision ever, how do i get off", it puts doubts in your head. Like i originally said though - i don't totally know what's held me back, i've had all the stuff to diy it stored in a box in my gym for several years!
 

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Well keep in mind i did say it wasn't logical thinking regarding being natty or not, but more a subconscious thing - I don't consciously look down my nose at anyone.
As to how could someone feel worse at 25 than 11nmol, - i don't know. But that's my point. It makes perfect sense to think having higher levels on trt are better than natural, lower levels. But i read on forums every day, people asking how to get off, saying it wasn't worth it or that their symptoms were worse. And yes, it might be they had a crap protocol. But when you're unsure about starting something major like this, that's meant to be 'for life', reading half the people on it saying, "awesome, life changing" and the other half saying "worst decision ever, how do i get off", it puts doubts in your head. Like i originally said though - i don't totally know what's held me back, i've had all the stuff to diy it stored in a box in my gym for several years!
By the sounds of it mate i don't think steroids or trt are for you, you over think a lot and thats not ideal when it comes to steroids or trt, being in tune with your body is key to getting things right, thinking is good, over thinking and doubting is bad in this game. Wish you all the best in your choice bud, whatever that might be.
 

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Its Nice To Be Nice
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Well keep in mind i did say it wasn't logical thinking regarding being natty or not, but more a subconscious thing - I don't consciously look down my nose at anyone.
As to how could someone feel worse at 25 than 11nmol, - i don't know. But that's my point. It makes perfect sense to think having higher levels on trt are better than natural, lower levels. But i read on forums every day, people asking how to get off, saying it wasn't worth it or that their symptoms were worse. And yes, it might be they had a crap protocol. But when you're unsure about starting something major like this, that's meant to be 'for life', reading half the people on it saying, "awesome, life changing" and the other half saying "worst decision ever, how do i get off", it puts doubts in your head. Like i originally said though - i don't totally know what's held me back, i've had all the stuff to diy it stored in a box in my gym for several years!
Overthink, head for Google that's what people do nowadays, the trouble is that when you are sceptical, afraid, nervous about taking a medication it just reinforces your negative beliefs.

When I started venlefaxin a few years ago I googled the shit out of them 🙄🙄, holy ****, good thing for me was I had 2 choices 1) stay in the mental state I was in and not see out the year 2) take the tablets...

If I had the 'choice' not to take them I wouldn't have based on the god awful shit I was reading. The way I look at it is all of the people who are online giving their experience of medications are the ones it isn't working for, the ones it is working for are out enjoying life. That gives a very one sided negative view of things.

As @B88F says it sounds like you aren't in the mindset to jump on right now, if you did it sounds like if you got a twinge, a sore leg, a couple of sleepless nights you would be quick to think 'must be the trt'.

If you didn't workout and your doc suggested it I think you would be more likely to take it, I think because we are lifters we relate testosterone to benefiting our lifting and not our health. I know that if I told everyone I knew I was going on trt 100% of people I know would say 'aye that's to help your lifting'.

At 50 years old do you really give a **** what people have to say?
 

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Looking Freaky
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What is it that is holding you back if you don't mind me asking?

For me the only thing was that I haven't
had kids yet. However I had to weigh that up against quality of life, and decided to go for it. I'll take the HCG and roll the dice.
Was on trt for both my kids mate , five and two year old now …Hcg , hmg etc loads of baby making protocols out there 👍
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
That's a good question, i'm not totally sure myself why i don't go on. I think it's a mix of different things - not wanting to accept i can't fix things, and strut around with a natural level higher than everyone else. I've lifted weights for over 30 years, never been interested in the steroid side of things, so there's probably a fear i'll regret losing my natty status and not respect myself anymore. These probably sound like stupid reasons, and maybe they are. But i'm talking about deep rooted subconscious stuff, not logical thinking. The other thing is, what if i find i felt better with a natural 11 nmol than, lets say, an injected 20 or 30 nmol level - but then i can't get back. Not recovering seems to be a common thing, especially with people around my age (50). Shutting down whatever crappy hpta i have worries me a bit if i'm honest. I think, if doing trt meant just adding to your own levels, with no recovery needed if you stop, i don't think i'd hesitate (which kinda blows my 'proud natty' theory out the water).

Having read all that back, i think it might just be i'm a bit of a pussy...
Thankyou for such an honest reply.
I understand all those reasons, for myself the natty card went out the window years ago. Even though I haven't touched it for years, the damage is probably already done, maybe I wouldn't be in this scenario if I'd have done things differently, I'll never know though.

Ultimately it's a choice you have to make for yourself, it sounds like you>be been thinking about it for a long time just like me.
 

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Overthink, head for Google that's what people do nowadays, the trouble is that when you are sceptical, afraid, nervous about taking a medication it just reinforces your negative beliefs.

When I started venlefaxin a few years ago I googled the shit out of them 🙄🙄, holy ****, good thing for me was I had 2 choices 1) stay in the mental state I was in and not see out the year 2) take the tablets...

If I had the 'choice' not to take them I wouldn't have based on the god awful shit I was reading. The way I look at it is all of the people who are online giving their experience of medications are the ones it isn't working for, the ones it is working for are out enjoying life. That gives a very one sided negative view of things.

As @B88F says it sounds like you aren't in the mindset to jump on right now, if you did it sounds like if you got a twinge, a sore leg, a couple of sleepless nights you would be quick to think 'must be the trt'.

If you didn't workout and your doc suggested it I think you would be more likely to take it, I think because we are lifters we relate testosterone to benefiting our lifting and not our health. I know that if I told everyone I knew I was going on trt 100% of people I know would say 'aye that's to help your lifting'.

At 50 years old do you really give a **** what people have to say?
All very valid points buddy, yours and @B88F
I can't work myself out - maybe it's the low test itself that causes my indecisiveness...
 

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.
Ultimately it's a choice you have to make for yourself, it sounds like you>be been thinking about it for a long time just like me.
Yep, nearly 4 years. Before that, i'd taken low dose clomid for maybe 5 years after the nhs tested me and i was lower than i wanted to be (12 - 14ish nmol). So i guess i wasn't really 'natty' during that time (took me to 21nmol, until it stopped working). I'll probably one day just go "fcuk it", start trt and end up thinking "i should have started years ago".
 

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Its Nice To Be Nice
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All very valid points buddy, yours and @B88F
I can't work myself out - maybe it's the low test itself that causes my indecisiveness...
theres that questioning trait again ;)

I hope you work it out mate

No issues at all.

Went to my local Boots and they said no problem...we'll order it in for you.

Think I was about £40 for 12 vials


How many is it for on your prescription ??
mental isnt it, when you think of steroids you think of dodgy gyms, backroom deals and abuse...then you realise that with the right bit of paper you can nip to boots and pick up pharma grade stuff.

mind blowing
 

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Yep, nearly 4 years. Before that, i'd taken low dose clomid for maybe 5 years after the nhs tested me and i was lower than i wanted to be (12 - 14ish nmol). So i guess i wasn't really 'natty' during that time (took me to 21nmol, until it stopped working). I'll probably one day just go "fcuk it", start trt and end up thinking "i should have started years ago".
Low t levels can make the brain un-easy and slightly anxious, higher t levels can make people more confident in decision making etc
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
No issues at all.

Went to my local Boots and they said no problem...we'll order it in for you.

Think I was about £40 for 12 vials

How many is it for on your prescription ??
Mines for 10. I think I've been a bit out with my calculations. That actually does sound about right, as 10 would last me 20 weeks.🤦🏻‍♂️
 
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