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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive read from medical studies that DHT from Testosterone raises the risk of cancer, and that Estrogen also causes cancer. Why do these hormones which are in the make up every man and women so dangerous?. So does this mean that once a man or woman hits puberty their chances of developing cancer is much higher since their hormones are kicking in?

Also why do aas raise bad cholestrol?

Or are the medics only talking about synthetic forms of natural hormones & not the hormone your own body produces? Do synthetic forms of Test & Estro convert to nasty metabolites unlike your own natural hormones, or has it got something to do with wrecking havoc on your enodcrine system and maybe damaging DNA ?

thanks
 

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musclebubble said:
Ive read from medical studies that DHT from Testosterone raises the risk of cancer, and that Estrogen also causes cancer. Why do these hormones which are in the make up every man and women so dangerous?. So does this mean that once a man or woman hits puberty their chances of developing cancer is much higher since their hormones are kicking in?

Also why do aas raise bad cholestrol?

Or are the medics only talking about synthetic forms of natural hormones & not the hormone your own body produces? Do synthetic forms of Test & Estro convert to nasty metabolites unlike your own natural hormones, or has it got something to do with wrecking havoc on your enodcrine system and maybe damaging DNA ?

thanks
Testosterone, Estrogen, etc tend to increase cell proliferation in hormone sensitive tissues eg( breast, uterus, testes, prostate, etc ). Whilst this in itself does not cause cancer, if one's DNA gets a mutation in certain sections of it eg( from exposure to certain toxic substances called mutagens, randomly through from aging and genetic degradation ), then that mutation can mess up the bodys ability to switch the breaks on cell proliferation. The addition of something that increases cell proliferation is like putting your foot on the accelerator, when you have no breaks.

Lots of things that bodybuilders do to stimulate growth, can have a similar effect when it comes to cancer. In special animals that have been bred to be small and not grow eg( the dwarf mouse ), their risk of cancers tend to be lower than in normal animals.

Some cancers eg( prostate ) can get a bit confusing as they can be hormone sensitive at one point, and then later become hormone insensitive at other times. Also some mutations can cause the growth effect of a bit of testosterone to be magnified greatly, so one needs to be careful when reading studies to distinguish between circulating (systemic ) hormones, and the effect in a particular tissue (localised effect).

As for why do androgens affect LDL, the mechanisms have not been fully mapped out, but there are a number of known involvement of both androgens and estrogens in a number of critical systems to lipid regulation eg( apolipoprotein B-100, LCAT, lipase, lipoprotein(a), etc ). If you are serious about wanting to understand the signalling mechanisms involved, then checkout Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids on apolipoproteins and lipoprotein (a). Once you have gone through that, there are a few links on the right hand side, that will take you to articles about how androgens used by bodybuilders affects lipids.

As for do synthetic androgens have a higher risk than your own (endogenous) hormone production, testosterone is the same as testosterone for most purposes, but it is possible to modify testosterone molecule to tweak the way the body handles it - this is how the rest of the AAS family came about. Some synthetic androgens can cause problems which were not present with the original testosterone molecule, and can increase or decrease cell proliferationg beyond that of one's own test (or estrogen would do). There is some evidence that some synthetic androgens can act as mutagens too, thus increasing the risk of DNA damage.

J
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Joshua said:
Testosterone, Estrogen, etc tend to increase cell proliferation in hormone sensitive tissues eg( breast, uterus, testes, prostate, etc ). Whilst this in itself does not cause cancer, if one's DNA gets a mutation in certain sections of it eg( from exposure to certain toxic substances called mutagens, randomly through from aging and genetic degradation ), then that mutation can mess up the bodys ability to switch the breaks on cell proliferation. The addition of something that increases cell proliferation is like putting your foot on the accelerator, when you have no breaks.

Lots of things that bodybuilders do to stimulate growth, can have a similar effect when it comes to cancer. In special animals that have been bred to be small and not grow eg( the dwarf mouse ), their risk of cancers tend to be lower than in normal animals.

Some cancers eg( prostate ) can get a bit confusing as they can be hormone sensitive at one point, and then later become hormone insensitive at other times. Also some mutations can cause the growth effect of a bit of testosterone to be magnified greatly, so one needs to be careful when reading studies to distinguish between circulating (systemic ) hormones, and the effect in a particular tissue (localised effect).

As for why do androgens affect LDL, the mechanisms have not been fully mapped out, but there are a number of known involvement of both androgens and estrogens in a number of critical systems to lipid regulation eg( apolipoprotein B-100, LCAT, lipase, lipoprotein(a), etc ). If you are serious about wanting to understand the signalling mechanisms involved, then checkout Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids on apolipoproteins and lipoprotein (a). Once you have gone through that, there are a few links on the right hand side, that will take you to articles about how androgens used by bodybuilders affects lipids.

As for do synthetic androgens have a higher risk than your own (endogenous) hormone production, testosterone is the same as testosterone for most purposes, but it is possible to modify testosterone molecule to tweak the way the body handles it - this is how the rest of the AAS family came about. Some synthetic androgens can cause problems which were not present with the original testosterone molecule, and can increase or decrease cell proliferationg beyond that of one's own test (or estrogen would do). There is some evidence that some synthetic androgens can act as mutagens too, thus increasing the risk of DNA damage.

J
cheers for the reply. I need to read further on that,as its alien to me atm
 

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OP: everything some way some how will be proven to increase the risk of cancer, egnore studies like that and get on with your life and what you want to do in it.

theres a study that says bananas increase cancer risk, if a man stares at boobs 5mins per day it will put 5years on his life, stoping somking will increase life by 12years.

these are pointless studies that will only freak scare and put people on a paranoia,

you could live a sheltered life doing nothing and die tomorrow or hammer aas and live till your 100years old after haveing an amazing life, im basicly saying dont bother with bollox studies like that.

fcuk them all and live your life!
 

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Don't be scaremongered by all the things you read mate if we all did that we'd never take risks in absolutely everything in life there's always some negative text somewhere about everything we do in life . So go out and go buy a nice 10mill jar of test and see it's benefits hahaha!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
stone14 said:
OP: everything some way some how will be proven to increase the risk of cancer, egnore studies like that and get on with your life and what you want to do in it.

theres a study that says bananas increase cancer risk, if a man stares at boobs 5mins per day it will put 5years on his life, stoping somking will increase life by 12years.

these are pointless studies that will only freak scare and put people on a paranoia,

you could live a sheltered life doing nothing and die tomorrow or hammer aas and live till your 100years old after haveing an amazing life, im basicly saying dont bother with bollox studies like that.

fcuk them all and live your life!
stone14 said:
OP: everything some way some how will be proven to increase the risk of cancer, egnore studies like that and get on with your life and what you want to do in it.

theres a study that says bananas increase cancer risk, if a man stares at boobs 5mins per day it will put 5years on his life, stoping somking will increase life by 12years.

these are pointless studies that will only freak scare and put people on a paranoia,

you could live a sheltered life doing nothing and die tomorrow or hammer aas and live till your 100years old after haveing an amazing life, im basicly saying dont bother with bollox studies like that.

fcuk them all and live your life!
no offence , but i think Joshua gave a more knowledgebale/meaningful reply

you said:

"there's a study that says bananas increase cancer risk, if a man stare at boobs 5min per day it will put 5years on his life, stoping smoking will increase life by 12years "

i know what you are trying to say (dont worry about this and that causing cancer) , however you cannot compare bananas,looking at boobs , some phony one-soff study from some dodgy source to something as powerful as hormones which have major effects on the body and organs, and their positive/negative effects have been documented from the millions of patients on either HRT or muscle wasting diseases.

i tell you something i know a lady 1 of 7 sisters all around the same age, she was the only one of the sisters who went on HRT , and after two yrs was diagnosed with Breast cancer. So is this a coincidence that the only sister out of 7 who went on hormone therapy got cancer??? Its possible ,but IMO the HRT couldve been responsible for her cancer, or developing pre-cancerous cells to full blown cancer. BTW hers was Estrogen Positive, meaning the cancer grows in response to the hormone estrogen, whilst my cousin who got cancer 10yrs ago, she was Estrogen negative, thus not much need of drugs like tamoxifen or Arimidex for the rest of life or the next 5 ,10 years after her treatment.

so maybe if you have precancerous cells in your body, which are hormone positive and you take big chunks of steorids, that could be the switch/catalyst to cause a full blown cancer to engulf your body. Just a thought , as i have no medical knowlege really.

But i guess many would say , if you are so worried no one is forcing you to use steroids at the end of the day. Thats true

also ive heard some pro-steroid users jumping on the bandwaggon of some study that mentioned that high estrogen could be the cause of high DHT and the culprit of BPH or prostate cancer. That is self denial and a load of bollox. Everyone knows that DHT is a metabolite of TESTOSTERONE not ESTROGEN, hence why the hardening more androgenic drugs cause hair loss and prostate issues + the thousands of medical studies
 

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As far as I can understand, what Joshua wrote seems about right. However, stone 14 says about some studies show certain effects while others don't. One of the problems is that there a very many ppl wanting to 'make a name' for themself. So, they do a small scale study, & get it published in a minor journal. The media, then gets hold of it, & makes out it's 'The Truth'. Also, you can prove anything with statistics!
 

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musclebubble said:
so maybe if you have precancerous cells in your body, which are hormone positive and you take big chunks of steorids, that could be the switch/catalyst to cause a full blown cancer to engulf your body. ...

...

high estrogen could be the cause of high DHT and the culprit of BPH or prostate cancer. That is self denial and a load of bollox. Everyone knows that DHT is a metabolite of TESTOSTERONE not ESTROGEN, hence why the hardening more androgenic drugs cause hair loss and prostate issues + the thousands of medical studies
DNA is constantly being damaged and repaired throughout our lives, as well as being copied. Although this is a bit of a simplification, If copies are made which are faulty then the cell either dies off or becomes cancerous. If you put in things which promote growth ie( increase the rate at which copies are being made ), then there can be an increased risk of some dodgy copies getting made which survive. The nastier case is where there is a tumour already there, and some growth promoters can cause it to grow more rapidly.

In the case of hormone sensitive tumours, then those hormones can stimulate growth, but some of the other BB drugs can have a very strong effect on their growth too eg( IGF1 ). In the lab, we use IGF1 to stimulate tumour growth, and when you look at animals that have had their genes modified to over produce IGF1 they are at higher risk of various cancers, and the cancers can more easily spread around the body (called metastasis).

post-19265-143614372329_thumb.jpg

[ Source : Nature ]

musclebubble said:
...

high estrogen could be the cause of high DHT and the culprit of BPH or prostate cancer. That is self denial and a load of bollox. Everyone knows that DHT is a metabolite of TESTOSTERONE not ESTROGEN, hence why the hardening more androgenic drugs cause hair loss and prostate issues + the thousands of medical studies
Estrogen can affect prostate growth itself [The Role of Estrogens in Prostate Carcinogenesis: A Rationale for Chemoprevention], without conversion to other hormones, and it is also sensitive to other hormones too. What makes the prostate even more tricky to model, is that there are other chemicals within the prostate which can be altered by gene expression, and these chemicals can dramatically alter the effect of a hormone, massively amplifying the effects one would normally see. This extreme amplifying effect is a common sign in some prostate cancers, whereas BPH is generally [AFAIK] hormonally driven in the traditional sense.

The androgenic drugs do not always cause hairloss either. There is a complex interplay between hormones, receptors, genes, stress, and all sorts of other factors too. Androgens (such as testosterone) can be reduced by an enzyme called 5a Reductase, of which two different types are expressed in different amounts in different tissues. This means that even if you took two people with the same amount of hormones in them, and even the same androgen receptor sensitivity eg( CAG repeat length ), their tissues would react differently. One may have virtually no effect on the skin, whereas another has strong effect on their heart or testes.

latblaster said:
As far as I can understand, what Joshua wrote seems about right. However, stone 14 says about some studies show certain effects while others don't. One of the problems is that there a very many ppl wanting to 'make a name' for themself. So, they do a small scale study, & get it published in a minor journal. The media, then gets hold of it, & makes out it's 'The Truth'. Also, you can prove anything with statistics!
The general media are often terrible for twisting things. They are not in the business of informing, but to get people to be attracted to that media (newspaper, tv channel, etc). Their goal is to sensationalise rather to inform. There are certainly plenty of dodgy studies too, but IMHO, the problem comes more often in the interpretation of studies, rather than the study itself.

Although I agree with your sentiments on misuse of statistics, I would argue that you cannot prove anything with stats, but you certainly can mislead people with them. Real proof (disproving via null hypothesis) is much more challenging to do, and valuable.

In the case of hormone sensitive tumours, it is fairly safe to say that they are hormone sensitive :D . Apart from the obvious tautology, removing hormones from the situation is a common strategy used in medicine with great success for those types of tumours. If you want to know more about this do an internet search for:

Androgen ablation protate

Estrogen ablation breast

J
 

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musclebubble said:
no offence , but i think Joshua gave a more knowledgebale/meaningful reply

you said:

"there's a study that says bananas increase cancer risk, if a man stare at boobs 5min per day it will put 5years on his life, stoping smoking will increase life by 12years "

i know what you are trying to say (dont worry about this and that causing cancer) , however you cannot compare bananas,looking at boobs , some phony one-soff study from some dodgy source to something as powerful as hormones which have major effects on the body and organs, and their positive/negative effects have been documented from the millions of patients on either HRT or muscle wasting diseases.
my point is imo it doesnt matter how its caused wether its hormones banannas boobs what ever, everything imo some how will be linked to cancer, if you follow every study ever in the world linked to cancer you will have a very sheltered mal-nutritioned life.

studies like these imo are only out to scare, even if there is a chance it doesnt mean you will get it, how many people still smoke nowing fine well the damage it can cause from the start, its like saying if you cross the road you may get run over and die, if you fall down the stairs you may break your neck and die, if you go boxing you may get brain damage or die, studies show all this and more, there must be billions of studies that show what can cause us harm in every aspect and disease in life so should we follow every single study ever that cause us harm and live in a shell away from the world and its dangers? no imo just live your life.
 
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