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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
Well that's it mate, I'm same as you was, but reading this thread makes me think. You never know what might change

Thanks for sharing hopefully you'll recover to a decent level will be following
Trust me mate, you never know.

Your entire life can flip in every aspect at a moments notice and to assume that desired perpetual drug use is a given is a bit naive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
In your 20s you don’t give a damn about most of those things do you.

For the price of hcg, and what little effort it takes, it’s a worthwhile addition to any cycle. It’s not just for things listed above either, it doesmore than that too

@stargazer could probably explain it’s benefits better than I. Hopefully he’ll chime in and list some of the benefits of hcg that most people are unaware of

How are you feeling mentality at the min @swole troll? Is your plan still to taper off the gear? And have you added in hcg yet?
So I'm just on 150mg prop and 1000iu hcg at the moment, broken up into 3 shots and 2 shots respectively.

Regaining some testicular size, feeling pretty good overall but I'm still considerably enhanced, had some bloods done Friday but only because the pack was expiring so I'll check the test when they process it.

I've got about 7 ish weeks left of the trt prop and hcg before starting the hcg blast.
 

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So I'm just on 150mg prop and 1000iu hcg at the moment, broken up into 3 shots and 2 shots respectively.

Regaining some testicular size, feeling pretty good overall but I'm still considerably enhanced, had some bloods done Friday but only because the pack was expiring so I'll check the test when they process it.

I've got about 7 ish weeks left of the trt prop and hcg before starting the hcg blast.
Why are you doing your hcg blast at that point mate?

Do not think you’d be best doing it now? I don’t think you’ll even need a blast as such, maybe just a dose increase for the first 4 weeks to regain function, then drop back to 1000-1500iu weekly until you move on to the serms
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Why are you doing your hcg blast at that point mate?

Do not think you’d be best doing it now? I don’t think you’ll even need a blast as such, maybe just a dose increase for the first 4 weeks to regain function, then drop back to 1000-1500iu weekly until you move on to the serms
Content pottering along at 1000iu for now, if my bollocks return to normal size on this dose then I won't bother, if not I'll do the blast pre SERMs, leydig cell desensitisation has been grossly over stated on the boards over the years, provided I feel good and am moving in the right direction then all is well for now.

I'm not doing the hcg blast right now because I'm not ready to come off just yet and have recently hormonally settled on what I'm taking and feel good for it, the last thing I need right at this present moment is a rollercoaster of oestrogen or any hormone for that matter.

Just cruising through these next couple months on trt and hcg and will be adaptive as needed as the date for coming off draws closer.

I'll keep it all posted in here bud, I've always had some level of controversy for my aggressive PCT protocols but I've had a very high success rate in those that I've helped and I'd sooner err on the side of 'too much' where recovery is concerned.

Especially when considering I intend for this to be my final PCT whether I recover or not and stay off gear or not.
 

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Well normally I'd say if you intend on;

  • retaining fertility as best as possible
  • off setting testicular atrophy
  • having the ability to recover hpta function with the least amount of stress
  • having larger loads

Then yes.

However 7 years ago my personal answer to those was "no" and here I am wishing I'd never stopped using HCG.

Funny how your mind can change over many years.

Live n learn...
I must be an outlier.

I've been on for 2.5 years straight (no hcg) and never lost much ball size and loads are still massive. I just started up hcg last month to see if it made any difference and it's barely noticeable honestly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
I must be an outlier.

I've been on for 2.5 years straight (no hcg) and never lost much ball size and loads are still massive. I just started up hcg last month to see if it made any difference and it's barely noticeable honestly.
I wasn't for a long time and even when they did atrophy my balls never became lentil sized as it does for some blokes.

But after 7 years of suppression they're down a little bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
How’s things going @swole troll

Couldn't face it, not yet anyway.

Psychological addiction is an extremely powerful thing and procrastination is a strong telltale sign of.

Just the idea of not feeling super charged with androgens and all that comes with it, the overwhelming enhancement of training and all things gym, the ability to continue to progress where you would otherwise stall after very little time at all, the sense of well being, the crazy libido.

The thought of it all as I trundled along on the lowest my test level has been in many years in preparation to go even lower (to nothing) and hopefully recovery some measly sub 30nmol level has been on my mind for months and I just can't attack it at the moment.

The reasoning for coming off so abruptly was largely down to a **** it mentality as many aspects of life took a nose dive for me but logically looking at it, tanked hormones right now on top of everything else is the last thing I need.

I'd like to think when I can finally get things sorted again that I will have a stab recovery but even the prospect of being as small and feeble as every other natty is a daunting thought in it's own right.

Either way, apologies to those that followed this thread for a guinea pig

guess you could say 'I just didn't have the bollocks'
 

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Couldn't face it, not yet anyway.

Psychological addiction is an extremely powerful thing and procrastination is a strong telltale sign of.

Just the idea of not feeling super charged with androgens and all that comes with it, the overwhelming enhancement of training and all things gym, the ability to continue to progress where you would otherwise stall after very little time at all, the sense of well being, the crazy libido.

The thought of it all as I trundled along on the lowest my test level has been in many years in preparation to go even lower (to nothing) and hopefully recovery some measly sub 30nmol level has been on my mind for months and I just can't attack it at the moment.

The reasoning for coming off so abruptly was largely down to a **** it mentality as many aspects of life took a nose dive for me but logically looking at it, tanked hormones right now on top of everything else is the last thing I need.

I'd like to think when I can finally get things sorted again that I will have a stab recovery but even the prospect of being as small and feeble as every other natty is a daunting thought in it's own right.

Either way, apologies to those that followed this thread for a guinea pig

guess you could say 'I just didn't have the bollocks'
I TOTALLY understand your words, no one understood me when I harped on about how tough it truly is when I came off a couple years back, the time will come again down the line trust me, no judgement.
 

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TLDR - I'm having a crack at recovering my HPTA after 7 years of continuous gear use with no HCG during that time.

Right so after 9 years of steroid use and 7 years of continuous suppression with no HCG I have decided at the age of 33 to try my hand at recovering my HPTA and endogenous testosterone production to an acceptable level (within range) and remaining natural until I drop below it, whether that's in 6 months or 20 years of establishing my natural range (this can take up to 2 years) I intend to be leaving any future supplementation in the hands of a professional.

This is due to a plethora of substantial changes in my life that I'm not going to go into on a message board but what I will share is the full journey to a responsive HPTA and potentially update down the line with matured results or a failed attempt and subsequent steps, be it reattempt or a prescription but again this can take a long time to fully conclude failure or inferior to quality of life production.

My last cycle was 1000mg of testosterone and 600mg of mixed nandrolone esters for 10 weeks with 4 weeks of anadrol at 50mg ed leading into a powerlifting meet.

Since the above cycle I've been on 250mg sustanon for the past 7 weeks and have just this week switched to 30mg of prop EOD, 50mg of proviron split in half AM and PM and 500iu of HCG E3D.

I am now going to spend 5 weeks at this dose (12 weeks clearance from the deca) before allowing my test to plummet to bottom end at which point I will get bloods to confirm this is the case and then introduce tamoxifen at 20mg ED, HCG at 2000iu EOD for a total of 20 days (10 shots) and 25mg of aromasin on off days from HCG to control aromatase going into SERM therapy (aromasin will be dropped once HCG is).

3 days after my final shot of HCG I will commence 100mg of clomiphene ED for 14 days alongside the 20mg of tamoxifen ED at which point I will half the clomiphene to 50mg for a further 14 days and run the tamoxifen for an equal time frame.

Cialis will also be used for the duration of SERM therapy at 5mg ED for some light potential erectile dysfunction support and it's proposed benefit to testosterone production.

Over the counter supplement wise I will be taking all that is in my 'PCT...It's not that difficult' thread.

56 days after SERM therapy I will get another full panel of blood work done to hopefully see that the hypothalamus is releasing gnrh, the pituitary is receiving this signal and releasing luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and that the leydig cells are receiving and responding to this signal. If this is the case, then this is of course recovery of full HPTA function and everything else is just a waiting game re the level of function they are all able to recover to.

I'll update this thread once I'm bottoming out the test in a month or so's time but reply to any questions and comments in the meantime.

It's funny, my most popular post on this forum was my PCT thread and to this day still nets me large amounts of DMs for advice and numerous success stories, I even met a chap in the gym a few years back who referenced a post by this guy 'swole troll' from a message board and asked me if I agreed with his methods, I told him that we see completely eye to eye on every last statement as it's me, he then went on to tell me how he'd ran my PCT (a bastardized power PCT with a few extras) multiple times as had other people that he knew.

Anyway, after all these years and all these people, I am the most severe case of suppression I've ever had to assist.

It's been blast (pardon the pun) but as mentioned this has ran it's course due to circumstance and decision, here's to hoping...
It took me around 2 maybe 3 years to recover and stupidly I went back on after not been satisfied with my testosterone levels sitting at 16 nmol but I did feel fine. At one point my testosterone levels were sitting at 12 nmol which was around 18 months into my recovery period and I felt like dog shit. Once I recovered I went back on for my own vanity reasons. At the point of coming off I was using gear for around 12 years but I did the old time on and time off with the couple of pcts. You could recover and with your knowledge you will have the understanding of what is going on.
Good luck swoll troll 💪
 

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It took me around 2 maybe 3 years to recover and stupidly I went back on after not been satisfied with my testosterone levels sitting at 16 nmol but I did feel fine. At one point my testosterone levels were sitting at 12 nmol which was around 18 months into my recovery period and I felt like dog shit. Once I recovered I went back on for my own vanity reasons. At the point of coming off I was using gear for around 12 years but I did the old time on and time off with the couple of pcts. You could recover and with your knowledge you will have the understanding of what is going on.
Good luck swoll troll 💪
Do you regret it Gav, honest?

I know we are similar ages. I stopped for three years and levels were 15. I felt ok, wood good and sex drive was ok too. At 45 though, you ain't making no gains and I just found it was getting harder and harder to even maintain muscle, I'd go in a calorie surplus my body just wants to store fat. I thought exactly the same for vanity reasons I'll do a few more cycles and I'm half way through my second. I'm just thinking now, to be honest trt is probably round the corner anyway if I want to kind of optermise my well being and feel at my best. I dont relish the thought of pinning forever but in the same breath I dont want my body just to fall apart with old age.

I'm taking hcg on my cycle now just incase I decide I'm done. I am considering coming off though and just running hgh year round.
 

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Do you regret it Gav, honest?

I know we are similar ages. I stopped for three years and levels were 15. I felt ok, wood good and sex drive was ok too. At 45 though, you ain't making no gains and I just found it was getting harder and harder to even maintain muscle, I'd go in a calorie surplus my body just wants to store fat. I thought exactly the same for vanity reasons I'll do a few more cycles and I'm half way through my second. I'm just thinking now, to be honest trt is probably round the corner anyway if I want to kind of optermise my well being and feel at my best. I dont relish the thought of pinning forever but in the same breath I dont want my body just to fall apart with old age.

I'm taking hcg on my cycle now just incase I decide I'm done. I am considering coming off though and just running hgh year round.
At the time of coming off 8 years ago I didn’t really understand what I understand now and yes I do regret it but would I be happy with my physical appearance ???? I’m not so sure but probably not because I still train and it’s what I do, it’s my life style. So 8 years ago I would still come off and I would do 12 weeks on and 12 weeks off maybe longer off like 6 months but my testosterone must of been rock bottom and I wouldn’t do trt but 4 1/2 years ago I decided let’s try trt and I felt much much better all round. When I drop to trt I do lose size but not as quick as going cold turkey obviously and I do look much better on trt and I’m mentally much better. When I would come off ( cold turkey ) I was a sack of shit and just miserable. So now I self trt with 125-150 mg test and all is good. I do my own blood testing every 3-6 months but soon I’ll drop it down to once a year. The main issue I have is that I aromotise easily so I need a ai during trt however I might change my protocol to microdosing my testosterone to stop this and I have to blood let every 3-6 months but since blood letting my red blood count markers have massively improved. During trt my bloods all fall in healthy range with in 3-4 months. Hope that helps :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
It took me around 2 maybe 3 years to recover and stupidly I went back on after not been satisfied with my testosterone levels sitting at 16 nmol but I did feel fine. At one point my testosterone levels were sitting at 12 nmol which was around 18 months into my recovery period and I felt like dog shit. Once I recovered I went back on for my own vanity reasons. At the point of coming off I was using gear for around 12 years but I did the old time on and time off with the couple of pcts. You could recover and with your knowledge you will have the understanding of what is going on.
Good luck swoll troll 💪
Appreciate it mate.

I think many of us have the know how, it's having the spuds to weather the recovery.

I've been on fumes of test for a few weeks and felt like crap even with hcg in there and my balls responding to it adding even more to the mix with ITT.

I was hesitant to even say that I've other issues going on at the moment as it all seems like a cop out, but it is a cop out, one I'm happy to admit to.

I feel at this stage whether I stay on another 6 months or come off now I can't see that it'll be the straw the broke the camels back with regard to my hpta.

I'd think if it were to be ****ed it was the 7 years of suppression that did it, not the further 6 or so months on top.

When everything else is in line and I'm thinking more clearly without so much on my plate, I may or may not have an actual go at it.

I've all the supplements, SERMs and hcg to hand now.
 

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Appreciate it mate.

I think many of us have the know how, it's having the spuds to weather the recovery.

I've been on fumes of test for a few weeks and felt like crap even with hcg in there and my balls responding to it adding even more to the mix with ITT.

I was hesitant to even say that I've other issues going on at the moment as it all seems like a cop out, but it is a cop out, one I'm happy to admit to.

I feel at this stage whether I stay on another 6 months or come off now I can't see that it'll be the straw the broke the camels back with regard to my hpta.

I'd think if it were to be ****ed it was the 7 years of suppression that did it, not the further 6 or so months on top.

When everything else is in line and I'm thinking more clearly without so much on my plate, I may or may not have an actual go at it.

I've all the supplements, SERMs and hcg to hand now.
Probably a wise choice even if you think it’s a cop out. Nothing worse than trying to deal with life issues when your hormones are ****ed

Maybe just use a sensible trt dose for a while, but keep the hcg in there at 1000-1500iu weekly. At least then you’ve got that part covered if you decide to give it another go, and this way it won’t require a massive hcg blast too
 

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Appreciate it mate.

I think many of us have the know how, it's having the spuds to weather the recovery.

I've been on fumes of test for a few weeks and felt like crap even with hcg in there and my balls responding to it adding even more to the mix with ITT.

I was hesitant to even say that I've other issues going on at the moment as it all seems like a cop out, but it is a cop out, one I'm happy to admit to.

I feel at this stage whether I stay on another 6 months or come off now I can't see that it'll be the straw the broke the camels back with regard to my hpta.

I'd think if it were to be ****ed it was the 7 years of suppression that did it, not the further 6 or so months on top.

When everything else is in line and I'm thinking more clearly without so much on my plate, I may or may not have an actual go at it.

I've all the supplements, SERMs and hcg to hand now.
What made me do trt was when I was going through a bad time. It was a slight relief from the issues I was going through so you might be best trying to come off when your in a better place or your going to be suffering more and 6 months is nothing. Once I recovered my physical appearance still looked ok but much flatter in the gyms. You could recover because I did and I never used pcts when I had time off because I always felt ok coming off but I looked much lighter. I don’t think I could recover now and so far my trt looks fine when I do my bloods. Most of my cycles have always been just testosterone but the last few years I’ve dabbled a few other compounds.
 

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What made me do trt was when I was going through a bad time. It was a slight relief from the issues I was going through so you might be best trying to come off when your in a better place or your going to be suffering more and 6 months is nothing. Once I recovered my physical appearance still looked ok but much flatter in the gyms. You could recover because I did and I never used pcts when I had time off because I always felt ok coming off but I looked much lighter. I don’t think I could recover now and so far my trt looks fine when I do my bloods. Most of my cycles have always been just testosterone but the last few years I’ve dabbled a few other compounds.
I'm in the same boat. came off and been like 4 weeks after PCT and feeling like absolute rubbish, although a lot better than the first two weeks. I wake up, anxious all ****ing day.. I can't even go to the local shop without my heart beating crazily fast and telling me to go home. Had my first ever panic attack in my PCT at 37 years of age.. can't even leave the house in fear of it happening again. I also can't go to get bloodwork done, for reason above and last time I went the nurse punctured a tendon in my arm " oops she said " then I fainted, as you can imagine not looking forward to going back

resisted so far, I have test E and test P on hand and its getting increasingly likely I will hop back on and see if I feel better. If I don't, then I know the test triggered off some mental health issues
I also have t3 and proviron which are known to have a positive effect on anxiety but at the moment it will be like guess work
funnily enough I have some diazepam, tried 2.5mg and still had same feeling when I went local shop :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
What made me do trt was when I was going through a bad time. It was a slight relief from the issues I was going through so you might be best trying to come off when your in a better place or your going to be suffering more and 6 months is nothing. Once I recovered my physical appearance still looked ok but much flatter in the gyms. You could recover because I did and I never used pcts when I had time off because I always felt ok coming off but I looked much lighter. I don’t think I could recover now and so far my trt looks fine when I do my bloods. Most of my cycles have always been just testosterone but the last few years I’ve dabbled a few other compounds.
You'd be surprised, age and usage are only favorable variables.

There is cases of people just running a single cycle and having such a hard time of recovery they've resigned to a life time of usage.

Others like that Dutch chap on YouTube was on for 10 years and bounced back as soon as his serms cleared.

Huge genetic component that is obviously also influenced by age and usage.

It's all about using PCT to make for the least amount of time possible with low test but if any part of the HPTA is off not only will this rear it's head during part of the PCT (either HCG or serm therapy depending on which part of the axis) but also the whole process will be in vain and you'll either need to suffer through until it does recover or restart the PCT.

I'm really not sold on someone otherwise healthy and of reasonable age being permanently hypogondal from androgen suppression.
 

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
It's funny, I shot 500mg of testosterone this morning and as the days gone on (yes @Thedynamitekid literally asked on thee day I folded) I've felt vastly improved in mood, wellbeing and libido whilst simultaneously disappointed in myself.

Never mind, steroids are a true forbidden fruit, subtle enough to live a perfectly manageable life of enhancement in all avenues but for some a constant dark cloud of commitment.

I'll leave this thread open with the intention of one day truly picking it back up but now isn't the time.
 

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I'm in the same boat. came off and been like 4 weeks after PCT and feeling like absolute rubbish, although a lot better than the first two weeks. I wake up, anxious all ****ing day.. I can't even go to the local shop without my heart beating crazily fast and telling me to go home. Had my first ever panic attack in my PCT at 37 years of age.. can't even leave the house in fear of it happening again. I also can't go to get bloodwork done, for reason above and last time I went the nurse punctured a tendon in my arm " oops she said " then I fainted, as you can imagine not looking forward to going back

resisted so far, I have test E and test P on hand and its getting increasingly likely I will hop back on and see if I feel better. If I don't, then I know the test triggered off some mental health issues
I also have t3 and proviron which are known to have a positive effect on anxiety but at the moment it will be like guess work
funnily enough I have some diazepam, tried 2.5mg and still had same feeling when I went local shop :(
I had many panic attacks, social anxiety, sweating, red face, flustered, it was really terrible I was a shell of a man but it took me a while to figure out what was going on and I was traumatised at what low testosterone did to my me. Still once I researched that coming off gear with low t would give me panic attacks I was even more full of anxiety thinking I don’t want trt for the rest of my life and from what I was going through. The whole recovery process was really slow and I was ill for months then all of a sudden 2 years later maybe less everything just felt better in my life, good energy, libido, morning erections, decent gym sessions. The fact that you understand more than I did then you can hold out. you just need to push through if you want to go natural for the rest of your life. A friend of mine did it after 15 years of blasting. It took him a year and he tells me story’s not f his panic attacks. And now he’s fit and healthy and looks good but much lighter.

I used the following supplements

10,000 is virgin D
Zma every night
Korean ginsing
L arginine
Creatine

I would throw in small doses of cialis

the above supplements all support recovery and libido I also tried every supplement out there occasionally so experiment.
 

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I had many panic attacks, social anxiety, sweating, red face, flustered, it was really terrible I was a shell of a man but it took me a while to figure out what was going on and I was traumatised at what low testosterone did to my me. Still once I researched that coming off gear with low t would give me panic attacks I was even more full of anxiety thinking I don’t want trt for the rest of my life and from what I was going through. The whole recovery process was really slow and I was ill for months then all of a sudden 2 years later maybe less everything just felt better in my life, good energy, libido, morning erections, decent gym sessions. The fact that you understand more than I did then you can hold out. you just need to push through if you want to go natural for the rest of your life. A friend of mine did it after 15 years of blasting. It took him a year and he tells me story’s not f his panic attacks. And now he’s fit and healthy and looks good but much lighter.

I used the following supplements

10,000 is virgin D
Zma every night
Korean ginsing
L arginine
Creatine

I would throw in small doses of cialis

the above supplements all support recovery and libido I also tried every supplement out there occasionally so experiment.
Thanks for the comment. I was only on for 18 months and did HCG throughout. I expected PCT to be rough with libido and experiences, but never expected it to be like this mentally. The funny thing is, my libido is absolutely fine. It's just the anxiety thats a killer
 
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