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I actually had a spate of what I believe was either involuntary off time or post cycle deca dick and or dopamine related issues associated with the drug

this was a few weeks back, I'd been running some home brewed sust from a friend of mine that he had given me months back but given I had a competition coming up I didn't want to chance using gear outside of my usual labs that I know to work.

So since I finished the meet on around 1000mg testosterone and then switched to the sust that was given to me, it was around about the time those esters would have entirely cleared (assuming I was using bunk from then on) that I started to not feel myself and suffer with low sex drive and erectile dysfunction.

I've since switched back to the other lab and still been fairly inconsistent which leads me to believe it could be some linger nandrolone issues, be it the potential impact on dopamine levels or just that I was using up to 600mg and going off it's 14 day half life would still be active up to 70 days post use, to some extent.

The whole point I'm making by telling you all this is that I very well could have just simply been suffering from low T causing these very unstable issues, low motivation, extremely low libido, erectile dysfunction and any long term exposure to these issues would be extremely difficult to power through.

So be warned, for some, coming off is an extremely arduous affair.

I'll do my best to document it all but as it stands I'm still not 100% back and have periodically relied on pde5 inhibitors to get the job done, I want to establish a level of normality with cruise dose propionate levels before having a proper stab at coming off again just to confirm to myself that these issues arn't post nandrolone use related.
This belongs in my 19nor thread lol.

Guys blasting test and primo don't get these problems.

But at least you have the excuse you were competing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
This belongs in my 19nor thread lol.

Guys blasting test and primo don't get these problems.

But at least you have the excuse you were competing.
I've not seen it but I have long been discussing the risks of 19nors

I ran deca for an unrecallable amount of blasts and never had any issues concerning post usage, but it only takes one.

Not to mention the psychological sides of these progesterone derivatives.

Unless you are competing and absolutely need that look or performance boost then you can comfortably achieve very similar with a mixture of testosterone, DHTs, growth hormone and well placed AIs, of course omitting, increasing and decreasing each as needed depending on the goal.

You won't get the same level of suppression if you are someone that comes off after each cycle

You won't get the same level psychological sides

You won't cause the same level of cardiovascular problems

You won't risk damaging dopamine levels

And you hugely reduce the likelihood of sexual dysfunction

That's not to say people shouldn't use 19nors or orals (I lump them together for risk v reward) unless they compete but should really consider the potential risks for something that could be almost achieved with a little more careful cycle structure of the compounds listed above resulting in a HUGE decrease in a lot of these risks.
 

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I've not seen it but I have long been discussing the risks of 19nors

I ran deca for an unrecallable amount of blasts and never had any issues concerning post usage, but it only takes one.

Not to mention the psychological sides of these progesterone derivatives.

Unless you are competing and absolutely need that look or performance boost then you can comfortably achieve very similar with a mixture of testosterone, DHTs, growth hormone and well placed AIs, of course omitting, increasing and decreasing each as needed depending on the goal.

You won't get the same level of suppression if you are someone that comes off after each cycle

You won't get the same level psychological sides

You won't cause the same level of cardiovascular problems

You won't risk damaging dopamine levels

And you hugely reduce the likelihood of sexual dysfunction

That's not to say people shouldn't use 19nors or orals (I lump them together for risk v reward) unless they compete but should really consider the potential risks for something that could be almost achieved with a little more careful cycle structure of the compounds listed above resulting in a HUGE decrease in a lot of these risks.
Interesting you put 19nors and orals in same category.

I blasted anavar quite heavily with zero sides and bloods were fine as well.

Can't really compare it to something like anadrol.

But in either case you don't have the (toxic) metabolites staying in your systems for several months as you do with deca. Length of exposure is really the problem there especially if you're doing 1 or 2 heavy cycles/blasts a year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Interesting you put 19nors and orals in same category.

I blasted anavar quite heavily with zero sides and bloods were fine as well.

Can't really compare it to something like anadrol.

But in either case you don't have the (toxic) metabolites staying in your systems for several months as you do with deca. Length of exposure is really the problem there especially if you're doing 1 or 2 heavy cycles/blasts a year.
The orals pose less psychological issues but are far more deleterious to health than any of the other injectables (tren excluded)

Anavar would be my favorite oral but even that I like to limit usage due to it being metabolized by the kidneys.

I think the safest model of PED use only includes native hormones and some select DHTs.

Are you going to be able to get as big, strong and conditioned as if you were to also use 19nors and orals? No, but you'll avoid a shit ton of side effects, both those that you are acutely aware of and what's going on under the bonnet.
 

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Since getting back into things last year I’ve often had regrets about walking away from this lifestyle for over a decade focusing on what if’s, how I’d look now, etc…

The reality is I’ve spent a decade focused on building a successful career and raising a family but yeah I completely let my training go to shite along with my physique during that period.

However I’m now in my late 40’s and able to commit the time and effort into training, eating, etc…. I don’t need to worry about having any more kids and as a hobby it’s a very welcome addition to my life and I’m no longer eating like a pig and drinking like a fish (pretty much teetotal since last Jan). I’m comfortable with a B&C lifestyle and planning for TRT and possibly low dose GH into my 50’s.

Reading threads like this makes me feel like I’ve actually done things the right way round for me personally - taking a break when I needed to focus time and energy elsewhere then being in a position to enjoy the lifestyle albeit for a time limited window being much older.
 

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Guys seem to suffer from all or nothing syndrome on both sides of this fence.

You can take the good aspects of bodybuilding done right (strength training, cardio, clean eating) while using some of the milder PEDs and have a great physique while being far healthier than your average sedentary slob.

If you don't get OCD with it, the sense of well being + looks far outweighs any inconvenience of the lifestyle.

Problem with coming off PEDs entirely or at least TRT is I imagine it's going to be VERY hard to maintain any motivation in the gym.
 

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@swole troll I wish you all the best with the recovery.

I tried to recover once, and the lull in testosterone caused my body to revert to how I used to look natty (worse, actually, due to the dad bod flab) over the span of 6 or so months, my training and eating was still on point as well. A blood test showed my levels at around 10nmol after 12 or so months. Personally, I couldn't live with the low libido and other sides of having low test.

However, unlike you, I have never done crazy blasts. The highest I've ever been is 1g a week (total hormone budget, having last touched tren a long time ago and gone totally off deca) and I generally avoid orals. Since getting older, my health has become more important to me than being huge. I used to joke "I don't care if I die young, as long as they bury me in a big ****ing box." My mentality is now the opposite of that, but I am perfectly content with taking testosterone for the rest of my life. Men's testosterone levels are the lowest they've ever been generally, and I want to be at optimal levels, even if my body isn't up to producing it.

I actually used to look really good natty (after a few cycles that I recovered from quickly) in my early 20s and should have just stopped there, but hey ho.
 

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Since getting back into things last year I’ve often had regrets about walking away from this lifestyle for over a decade focusing on what if’s, how I’d look now, etc…

The reality is I’ve spent a decade focused on building a successful career and raising a family but yeah I completely let my training go to shite along with my physique during that period.

However I’m now in my late 40’s and able to commit the time and effort into training, eating, etc…. I don’t need to worry about having any more kids and as a hobby it’s a very welcome addition to my life and I’m no longer eating like a pig and drinking like a fish (pretty much teetotal since last Jan). I’m comfortable with a B&C lifestyle and planning for TRT and possibly low dose GH into my 50’s.

Reading threads like this makes me feel like I’ve actually done things the right way round for me personally - taking a break when I needed to focus time and energy elsewhere then being in a position to enjoy the lifestyle albeit for a time limited window being much older.
See I disagree there tbh. You’re way more at risk as you age from blasting and cruising, and to me seems an extreme measure for a hobby builder

getting in fairly young, enjoy the lifestyle for some years whilst in your prime, then put it to bed and take care of your health, for you and your family
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
@swole troll I wish you all the best with the recovery.

I tried to recover once, and the lull in testosterone caused my body to revert to how I used to look natty (worse, actually, due to the dad bod flab) over the span of 6 or so months, my training and eating was still on point as well. A blood test showed my levels at around 10nmol after 12 or so months. Personally, I couldn't live with the low libido and other sides of having low test.

However, unlike you, I have never done crazy blasts. The highest I've ever been is 1g a week (total hormone budget, having last touched tren a long time ago and gone totally off deca) and I generally avoid orals. Since getting older, my health has become more important to me than being huge. I used to joke "I don't care if I die young, as long as they bury me in a big ****ing box." My mentality is now the opposite of that, but I am perfectly content with taking testosterone for the rest of my life. Men's testosterone levels are the lowest they've ever been generally, and I want to be at optimal levels, even if my body isn't up to producing it.

I actually used to look really good natty (after a few cycles that I recovered from quickly) in my early 20s and should have just stopped there, but hey ho.
Appreciate the feedback from experience

One thing though, our cycle history / dosages makes no difference to recovery.

As soon as you are on for a certain period of time you're shut down period

Same for if deca's in the mix at any stage at even just 200mg.

I'll have a stab nonetheless
See how my genetics fair.
 

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See I disagree there tbh. You’re way more at risk as you age from blasting and cruising, and to me seems an extreme measure for a hobby builder

getting in fairly young, enjoy the lifestyle for some years whilst in your prime, then put it to bed and take care of your health, for you and your family
Not disagreeing per say but didn't you say you've never even used gear lol?

Problem with younger guys getting on gear is they often don't have the bank roll to do it right, get frequent bloods,etc. Plus probably doing stupid shit like running orals and getting hammered every weekend.

I'm glad I didn't touch anything until I was 30.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Not disagreeing per say but didn't you say you've never even used gear lol?

Problem with younger guys getting on gear is they often don't have the bank roll to do it right, get frequent bloods,etc. Plus probably doing stupid shit like running orals and getting hammered every weekend.

I'm glad I didn't touch anything until I was 30.
I think both have their merit

What darkknight has suggested is good for getting in and out hopefully unscathed, more chance to recover from not only HPTA suppression but reverse some of the deleterious health effects one might accrue from years of B&C.

Equally waiting until your 30s has the benefit of enjoying B&C and comfortably retiring to a life of TRT afterward.

I fall into the first camp (at least I hope I do) but perhaps could end up in the second also given I started in my mid twenties and intending to come off in my mid thirties.
 

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Not disagreeing per say but didn't you say you've never even used gear lol?

Problem with younger guys getting on gear is they often don't have the bank roll to do it right, get frequent bloods,etc. Plus probably doing stupid shit like running orals and getting hammered every weekend.

I'm glad I didn't touch anything until I was 30.
No I never said that. You must be confusing me with someone else. I’ve got over 20 years under my belt unfortunately

The older generation can be just as stupid, you’ve got the likes of js77, stuey99 and others for example, they’re in their mid to late 40s, blasting massive amounts of gear and banging in all sorts of reccies on the regular

Then come on here and try and preach safe usage. That’s far worse IMO, than gettting on it all in your 20s, having some fun, enjoy the gains and then leave the lifestyle behind

These are the kinda of people that are going to have the serious health issue slap them in the face out of nowhere, you can get away with way more in your 20s

There comes a time when you should get your priorities in order
 

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No I never said that. You must be confusing me with someone else. I’ve got over 20 years under my belt unfortunately

The older generation can be just as stupid, you’ve got the likes of js77, stuey99 and others for example, they’re in their mid to late 40s, blasting massive amounts of gear and banging in all sorts of reccies on the regular

Then come on here and try and preach safe usage. That’s far worse IMO, than gettting on it all in your 20s, having some fun, enjoy the gains and then leave the lifestyle behind

These are the kinda of people that are going to have the serious health issue slap them in the face out of nowhere, you can get away with way more in your 20s

There comes a time when you should get your priorities in order
Can you really get away with more?

Grams of gear is likely going to have deleterious health effects at any age. Whether you're 25 or 45, you're bloodwork is probably going to be out of whack, BP high,etc. All this can be monitored and controlled to an extent if you have the know how and the bank roll.

All the guys I know who blasted heavily early on look like a sack of potatoes now at 30 + usually have injuries.

It takes years to build true strength (cns adoptions, tendons),etc.

Guys who try to fast track that process with gear inevitably end up breaking their bodies.
 

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I think both have their merit

What darkknight has suggested is good for getting in and out hopefully unscathed, more chance to recover from not only HPTA suppression but reverse some of the deleterious health effects one might accrue from years of B&C.

Equally waiting until your 30s has the benefit of enjoying B&C and comfortably retiring to a life of TRT afterward.

I fall into the first camp (at least I hope I do) but perhaps could end up in the second also given I started in my mid twenties and intending to come off in my mid thirties.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if after taking a long break you don’t eventually get back into things at a later stage in life. I never ever thought I would until the bug hit me again and I’ve enjoyed every minute since, even more than I did in my 20’s in fact.

Agree @shredcity comments above that having more knowledge, resources, time to really focus on things helps. I also think at this stage of life I’ve got a lot of counter productive shit out my system be it partying, boozing, recreational drugs, work/finance related stress, etc…. Jesus I’m on wife number three and for the first time feel genuinely settled. It’s just a better environment for me to really pursue a lifestyle I enjoy and can now be a little more selfish about and do things under the best possible conditions. It’s also time limited as I’m not getting any younger, but that’s just me and I can completely see where the likes of @DarkKnight are coming from too.
 

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Nice to see an informative, educational discussion on here that hasn’t been completely detailed by the way.
 

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Be interesting to follow mate. You may be surprised yet.
33 isn’t exactly old! Still technically in your prime haha

I went through something similar a fair few years back. Albeit not a 7 year stint without hcg! More like 2 or 3

And I’m now in my 40s, and I still recover to a fairly decent level natural
I've never used hcg. Just come off without pct or anything. Only just started cruising for first time. Do you reckon it's worth adding the hcg from now on mate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
I've never used hcg. Just come off without pct or anything. Only just started cruising for first time. Do you reckon it's worth adding the hcg from now on mate?
Well normally I'd say if you intend on;

  • retaining fertility as best as possible
  • off setting testicular atrophy
  • having the ability to recover hpta function with the least amount of stress
  • having larger loads

Then yes.

However 7 years ago my personal answer to those was "no" and here I am wishing I'd never stopped using HCG.

Funny how your mind can change over many years.

Live n learn...
 

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Well normally I'd say if you intend on;

  • retaining fertility as best as possible
  • off setting testicular atrophy
  • having the ability to recover hpta function with the least amount of stress
  • having larger loads

Then yes.

However 7 years ago my personal answer to those was "no" and here I am wishing I'd never stopped using HCG.

Funny how your mind can change over many years.

Live n learn...
Well that's it mate, I'm same as you was, but reading this thread makes me think. You never know what might change

Thanks for sharing hopefully you'll recover to a decent level will be following
 

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Well normally I'd say if you intend on;

  • retaining fertility as best as possible
  • off setting testicular atrophy
  • having the ability to recover hpta function with the least amount of stress
  • having larger loads

Then yes.

However 7 years ago my personal answer to those was "no" and here I am wishing I'd never stopped using HCG.

Funny how your mind can change over many years.

Live n learn...
In your 20s you don’t give a damn about most of those things do you.

For the price of hcg, and what little effort it takes, it’s a worthwhile addition to any cycle. It’s not just for things listed above either, it doesmore than that too

@stargazer could probably explain it’s benefits better than I. Hopefully he’ll chime in and list some of the benefits of hcg that most people are unaware of

How are you feeling mentality at the min @swole troll? Is your plan still to taper off the gear? And have you added in hcg yet?
 
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