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TLDR - I'm having a crack at recovering my HPTA after 7 years of continuous gear use with no HCG during that time.

Right so after 9 years of steroid use and 7 years of continuous suppression with no HCG I have decided at the age of 33 to try my hand at recovering my HPTA and endogenous testosterone production to an acceptable level (within range) and remaining natural until I drop below it, whether that's in 6 months or 20 years of establishing my natural range (this can take up to 2 years) I intend to be leaving any future supplementation in the hands of a professional.

This is due to a plethora of substantial changes in my life that I'm not going to go into on a message board but what I will share is the full journey to a responsive HPTA and potentially update down the line with matured results or a failed attempt and subsequent steps, be it reattempt or a prescription but again this can take a long time to fully conclude failure or inferior to quality of life production.

My last cycle was 1000mg of testosterone and 600mg of mixed nandrolone esters for 10 weeks with 4 weeks of anadrol at 50mg ed leading into a powerlifting meet.

Since the above cycle I've been on 250mg sustanon for the past 7 weeks and have just this week switched to 30mg of prop EOD, 50mg of proviron split in half AM and PM and 500iu of HCG E3D.

I am now going to spend 5 weeks at this dose (12 weeks clearance from the deca) before allowing my test to plummet to bottom end at which point I will get bloods to confirm this is the case and then introduce tamoxifen at 20mg ED, HCG at 2000iu EOD for a total of 20 days (10 shots) and 25mg of aromasin on off days from HCG to control aromatase going into SERM therapy (aromasin will be dropped once HCG is).

3 days after my final shot of HCG I will commence 100mg of clomiphene ED for 14 days alongside the 20mg of tamoxifen ED at which point I will half the clomiphene to 50mg for a further 14 days and run the tamoxifen for an equal time frame.

Cialis will also be used for the duration of SERM therapy at 5mg ED for some light potential erectile dysfunction support and it's proposed benefit to testosterone production.

Over the counter supplement wise I will be taking all that is in my 'PCT...It's not that difficult' thread.

56 days after SERM therapy I will get another full panel of blood work done to hopefully see that the hypothalamus is releasing gnrh, the pituitary is receiving this signal and releasing luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and that the leydig cells are receiving and responding to this signal. If this is the case, then this is of course recovery of full HPTA function and everything else is just a waiting game re the level of function they are all able to recover to.

I'll update this thread once I'm bottoming out the test in a month or so's time but reply to any questions and comments in the meantime.

It's funny, my most popular post on this forum was my PCT thread and to this day still nets me large amounts of DMs for advice and numerous success stories, I even met a chap in the gym a few years back who referenced a post by this guy 'swole troll' from a message board and asked me if I agreed with his methods, I told him that we see completely eye to eye on every last statement as it's me, he then went on to tell me how he'd ran my PCT (a bastardized power PCT with a few extras) multiple times as had other people that he knew.

Anyway, after all these years and all these people, I am the most severe case of suppression I've ever had to assist.

It's been blast (pardon the pun) but as mentioned this has ran it's course due to circumstance and decision, here's to hoping...
 

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TLDR - I'm having a crack at recovering my HPTA after 7 years of continuous gear use with no HCG during that time.

Right so after 9 years of steroid use and 7 years of continuous suppression with no HCG I have decided at the age of 33 to try my hand at recovering my HPTA and endogenous testosterone production to an acceptable level (within range) and remaining natural until I drop below it, whether that's in 6 months or 20 years of establishing my natural range (this can take up to 2 years) I intend to be leaving any future supplementation in the hands of a professional.

This is due to a plethora of substantial changes in my life that I'm not going to go into on a message board but what I will share is the full journey to a responsive HPTA and potentially update down the line with matured results or a failed attempt and subsequent steps, be it reattempt or a prescription but again this can take a long time to fully conclude failure or inferior to quality of life production.

My last cycle was 1000mg of testosterone and 600mg of mixed nandrolone esters for 10 weeks with 4 weeks of anadrol at 50mg ed leading into a powerlifting meet.

Since the above cycle I've been on 250mg sustanon for the past 7 weeks and have just this week switched to 30mg of prop EOD, 50mg of proviron split in half AM and PM and 500iu of HCG E3D.

I am now going to spend 5 weeks at this dose (12 weeks clearance from the deca) before allowing my test to plummet to bottom end at which point I will get bloods to confirm this is the case and then introduce tamoxifen at 20mg ED, HCG at 2000iu EOD for a total of 20 days (10 shots) and 25mg of aromasin on off days from HCG to control aromatase going into SERM therapy (aromasin will be dropped once HCG is).

3 days after my final shot of HCG I will commence 100mg of clomiphene ED for 14 days alongside the 20mg of tamoxifen ED at which point I will half the clomiphene to 50mg for a further 14 days and run the tamoxifen for an equal time frame.

Cialis will also be used for the duration of SERM therapy at 5mg ED for some light potential erectile dysfunction support and it's proposed benefit to testosterone production.

Over the counter supplement wise I will be taking all that is in my 'PCT...It's not that difficult' thread.

56 days after SERM therapy I will get another full panel of blood work done to hopefully see that the hypothalamus is releasing gnrh, the pituitary is receiving this signal and releasing luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and that the leydig cells are receiving and responding to this signal. If this is the case, then this is of course recovery of full HPTA function and everything else is just a waiting game re the level of function they are all able to recover to.

I'll update this thread once I'm bottoming out the test in a month or so's time but reply to any questions and comments in the meantime.

It's funny, my most popular post on this forum was my PCT thread and to this day still nets me large amounts of DMs for advice and numerous success stories, I even met a chap in the gym a few years back who referenced a post by this guy 'swole troll' from a message board and asked me if I agreed with his methods, I told him that we see completely eye to eye on every last statement as it's me, he then went on to tell me how he'd ran my PCT (a bastardized power PCT with a few extras) multiple times as had other people that he knew.

Anyway, after all these years and all these people, I am the most severe case of suppression I've ever had to assist.

It's been blast (pardon the pun) but as mentioned this has ran it's course due to circumstance and decision, here's to hoping...
Best of luck buddy, it’s going to be a hard road but there is light of you push through.
 

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All the best for this mate.

Any reason why you didn’t run hcg on your cycles?

I don’t agree with the way you’re running your pct myself, I think you’re over complicating things and deliberately letting your test levels bottom out doesn’t sound like fun, I’d be running higher hcg now while all the gear is clearing and get some testicular function going ready for the serms to take over, save yourself potential weeks of misery. I don’t think 500iu will cut it tbh

But you’ve been around the block enough times so I’m sure you’ve got it covered

Again, good luck
 

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One thing to add. With regards to recovery, it’s a total lottery, you may find even after all that time you may recover really quickly, some may not even get back in natty range

The true test is 18-24 months down the line
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Best of luck mate.
Just curious, why no HMG?
Just don't feel the need to stimulate the sertolli cells directly.

HCG will do this to some degree anyway.

My immediate concern is regaining testosterone production and historically HCG and SERM therapy has sufficed in virtually all people I've helped, some never got back to me so there could very well have been some failed attempts but this can also be attributed to impatience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All the best for this mate.

Any reason why you didn’t run hcg on your cycles?

I don’t agree with the way you’re running your pct myself, I think you’re over complicating things and deliberately letting your test levels bottom out doesn’t sound like fun, I’d be running higher hcg now while all the gear is clearing and get some testicular function going ready for the serms to take over, save yourself potential weeks of misery. I don’t think 500iu will cut it tbh

But you’ve been around the block enough times so I’m sure you’ve got it covered

Again, good luck
I'm just a bit of a cunt on the quiet, always preached but not always followed.

I did during the first 2 years of usage and bounced back immediately after 6 months of suppression but I was in my mid twenties then.

I've not used it since as I had no intention of coming off but what do you know, life long decisions in your twenties seldom stick.

That's 500iu x2 weekly for 1000iu per week
Although far from conclusive it can be indicative of some remaining hope that my testicles have never badly atrophied even in the absence of HCG and at times ridiculously high doses of 19nors.

I just want to ensure the greatest environment to invoke response and since elevated testosterone, oestrogen or progesterone will inhibit gnrh release, if these are all kept low there is the greatest chance or reigniting that aspect of the HPT.
 

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I'm just a bit of a cunt on the quiet, always preached but not always followed.

I did during the first 2 years of usage and bounced back immediately after 6 months of suppression but I was in my mid twenties then.

I've not used it since as I had no intention of coming off but what do you know, life long decisions in your twenties seldom stick.

That's 500iu x2 weekly for 1000iu per week
Although far from conclusive it can be indicative of some remaining hope that my testicles have never badly atrophied even in the absence of HCG and at times ridiculously high doses of 19nors.

I just want to ensure the greatest environment to invoke response and since elevated testosterone, oestrogen or progesterone will inhibit gnrh release, if these are all kept low there is the greatest chance or reigniting that aspect of the HPT.
Be interesting to follow mate. You may be surprised yet.
33 isn’t exactly old! Still technically in your prime haha

I went through something similar a fair few years back. Albeit not a 7 year stint without hcg! More like 2 or 3

And I’m now in my 40s, and I still recover to a fairly decent level natural
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Be interesting to follow mate. You may be surprised yet.
33 isn’t exactly old! Still technically in your prime haha

I went through something similar a fair few years back. Albeit not a 7 year stint without hcg! More like 2 or 3

And I’m now in my 40s, and I still recover to a fairly decent level natural
What was your recovery protocol and time frame for recovery if you remember?

As has been my exp it's very person dependent but always interesting to hear

Particularly the success stories when you're at the base of the mountain.
 

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What was your recovery protocol and time frame for recovery if you remember?

As has been my exp it's very person dependent but always interesting to hear

Particularly the success stories when you're at the base of the mountain.
Was pretty straightforward tbh mate, used hcg at 2500iu twice a week for 4 weeks as a kinda kickstart to the testes, was still running aas at this point, low dose test only. Then lowered the dose to half that.

I dropped the test dose over a few weeks until I was on hcg only, did bloods on the hcg to confirm test was in a good range, which it was, high 20s

Then started on the serms, but only lasted 4 weeks as clomid makes me feel awful

IMO, you’ll either recover or you won’t. It’s just about trying to make the ride as smooth as poss

A lot of it is mind games too. Sometimes too much knowledge is a bad thing! Just gotta forget about it and try and get on with your life as normal
 

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I even met a chap in the gym a few years back who referenced a post by this guy 'swole troll' from a message board and asked me if I agreed with his methods, I told him that we see completely eye to eye on every last statement as it's me, he then went on to tell me how he'd ran my PCT (a bastardized power PCT with a few extras) multiple times as had other people that he knew.
Love that 😅 I've yet to meet anyone IRL that's referenced my T3 thread, but I've been in a debate with someone over the use of T3 on another forum a couple of years ago and they referenced my own thread here, not knowing it was me and I had a fun time explaining how they'd misunderstood what they were referencing in the thread without revealing that I was the person to have written it 🤣

Anyhow, very interested in this thread. After a whole year just cruising and eventually dropping down to a TRT dose, I'm debating whether I want to continue my bodybuilding journey or just focus on leading a healthier lifestyle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Love that 😅 I've yet to meet anyone IRL that's referenced my T3 thread, but I've been in a debate with someone over the use of T3 on another forum a couple of years ago and they referenced my own thread here, not knowing it was me and I had a fun time explaining how they'd misunderstood what they were referencing in the thread without revealing that I was the person to have written it 🤣

Anyhow, very interested in this thread. After a whole year just cruising and eventually dropping down to a TRT dose, I'm debating whether I want to continue my bodybuilding journey or just focus on leading a healthier lifestyle.
Hopefully a success story eh, I'm not holding my breath but If I can just get into the low teens I'll be content.

I was at around 14nmol last year for the entirety of a cruise and felt acceptable but very natty.

Could certainly live like that, trick is not comparing anything experienced enhanced to it; strength, pump, condition, fullness, libido, confidence ect
 

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Hopefully a success story eh, I'm not holding my breath but If I can just get into the low teens I'll be content.

I was at around 14nmol last year for the entirety of a cruise and felt acceptable but very natty.

Could certainly live like that, trick is not comparing anything experienced enhanced to it; strength, pump, condition, fullness, libido, confidence ect
Also not comparing to how it was pre aas

Once you’re in your 30s, you’re never going to be the way you were in your teens - early 20s

That’s the hardest thing to accept lol

As long as your in a good place mentally, without brain fog and your Johnson still works and you actually feel like you want to use it! Then I wouldn’t focus on an actual nmol number too much tbh
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've been asked several times now why I have made this decision and it's perfectly understandable to inquire, I know that I would.

So without going into all of the details as again, some are matters I'm not interested in sharing on here.

My health isn't tip top, potentially androgen related and I could solve it with some plate spinning but you'll see why with further explanation of reasons

I'm 122kg at the peak of a cycle right now, here is a comparison of me in 2016 vs 8 weeks ago, 92 and 122kg respectively



I simply cannot progress at this stage without pushing my blast dosage higher than I'm comfortable given my health and even if I do I still regress back to what my cruise dose can sustain and I'm not willing to increase that either.

I have sustained many severe injuries over the years of powerlifting and in just the past 4 months I've torn my lat, quad sweep and front delt, with the delt now bearing an inoperable but very visible indentation.

And lastly as mentioned I won't divulge any further but I have gone through several life changing events outside of the gym.

I'm just done, I've been at this for over ten years, been consistently enhanced for 7 and lost my love for it all about a year ago upon the realization that I'm tearing my body up with training, drugs and excessive amounts of food and body fluctuation with very little extra juice for the squeeze as I've pushed my genetic capability.

If you enjoy it then crack on, totally get the mindset, I've lived it but I've had my fill now.
 

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What was your recovery protocol and time frame for recovery if you remember?

As has been my exp it's very person dependent but always interesting to hear

Particularly the success stories when you're at the base of the mountain.
I did the following this was all discovered because I’d inadvertently recovered while using bunk gear……

Day 1-21: 2000iu Hcg every 3rd day
Days 22-50: 20mg Tomoxifen and clomid 100/75/50/25 reducing each week.(Used 1000mg daily of calcium d-glucarate to offset estrogen sides while on hcg as didn’t want to use arimidex for some reason I always get gyro even when using tomox)

Days 1-51 onwards(supps)

10,000iu Vitamin d3
50mg Zinc
9mg Boron
1000mg Ashwaganda KSM 66
1000mg Fenugreek
3000mg Omega 3

4 Weeks later I dropped the Fenugreek, boron and reduced d3 to 5000iu

4 weeks later pulled bloods and then titrated supps diet etc to get my Test in mid 20’s.

full disclosure I’m now back on TRT (Prescribed as of last week) This wasn’t due to Not being able to recover there were many factors, some I don’t want to discuss but the above definitely recovered me and got bloods to objectively show it worked, it’s not a science and it’s not a peer reviewed pct protocol but it worked for me)

Mentality was the hardest thing for me, ocd,anxiety and depression noticeable higher, lost size and general motivation but after 6 months felt normal again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I did the following this was all discovered because I’d inadvertently recovered while using bunk gear……

Day 1-21: 2000iu Hcg every 3rd day
Days 22-50: 20mg Tomoxifen and clomid 100/75/50/25 reducing each week.(Used 1000mg daily of calcium d-glucarate to offset estrogen sides while on hcg as didn’t want to use arimidex for some reason I always get gyro even when using tomox)

Days 1-51 onwards(supps)

10,000iu Vitamin d3
50mg Zinc
9mg Boron
1000mg Ashwaganda KSM 66
1000mg Fenugreek
3000mg Omega 3

4 Weeks later I dropped the Fenugreek, boron and reduced d3 to 5000iu

4 weeks later pulled bloods and then titrated supps diet etc to get my Test in mid 20’s.

full disclosure I’m now back on TRT (Prescribed as of last week) This wasn’t due to Not being able to recover there were many factors, some I don’t want to discuss but the above definitely recovered me and got bloods to objectively show it worked, it’s not a science and it’s not a peer reviewed pct protocol but it worked for me)

Mentality was the hardest thing for me, ocd,anxiety and depression noticeable higher, lost size and general motivation but after 6 months felt normal again.
How long had you been on prior to this ?
 
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