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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi,

Some stats: 26 years old, 6'3 /190cm tall, 98kg of weight, body fat according to some calculator based on waist/neck circumference is around 18% probably, mirror reflects this).
Been lifting on PPL (firstly reddit version, then athlean-x one motified to suit myself better) consistently for about 2 years with small breaks (at home for a certain time due to pandemic, I have had full equipment though apart from squat rack, so done with dumbbells). Generally been on/off with the gym since I was like 16 due to being fat, however, I would say I started to took it seriously in 2018 but it still was quite uneducated (bro-split) then in 2019 started PPL, carried on with this routine).

Lifts aren't so impressive, though.
  • 55kg OHP x2 or 50x5
  • 80kg bench x1/2 or 75x5
  • 130kg deadlift x1
  • 110kg squat x4 (but I think I could've done better just was a bit afraid tbh due to knee pain and generally tallness makes squatting a bit difficult)
Due to relatively high bodyweight, I haven't been doing best with bodyweight exercises but the best was 8 chin-ups and about 4 pull-ups with 5th being off.
For some reason, I just cannot get any stronger. I have checked natural muscle potential based on some navy calculator (wrist/ankle measurements) and it showed that I am at 90% of my genetic potential. I am aware it's probably not too accurate but it gives an insight and I can see that I cannot really break through anyways

I would like to get to around 10-12% BF ideally but 12-13% range would be good too as I am aware it's not easy.
About diet, I have stuckmainly to the calories and kept proteins around 200-220g+ range, however (which probably is not good) I have eaten a lot of protein yogurts (brooklea from aldi, 25g protein per tub, low calorie). I have had around 4 usually or sometimes even 6 daily. Apart from this eaten meat. I have changed it due to often diarrhea problems.

I have been looking through steroids and researching it hard for some time now. I have found this:
LINK DELETED
and wanted to use this as my first cycle + PCT as this looks comprehensive and checks out with most of beginner cycles guides I have read (maybe apart of test dosage).
Also, has anybody used this website? Is this legit? Or if it's not, could you advise an alternative?

Cycle plan (12 week long):
  • 300mg twice a week so 600mg in a total of Magnus Sustanon weekly (Monday & Thursday) - any recommendation when ideally, morning/evening? I am also thinking about starting with a lower dose for first weeks and gradually increase (however I have read that 500mg is "most optimal" but again, I am curious about your opinion)
  • 50mg of Dynamic Anavar every day between Week 1 and Week 8 (however thinking about starting at 25mg for first two weeks and then increase dose), in the morning;
  • 25mg every day of Bayer Proviron throughout the cycle.

PCT Plan (2 weeks after last inject):
  • Day 1 – 250mg Clomid + 80mg Tamoxifen
  • Day 2-11 – 75mg/day Clomid + 40mg Tamoxifen
  • Day 12-21 – 50mg/day Clomid + 20mg Tamoxifen
For supplements: 5g of creatine on training days, omega3 fish oil (2640 EPA & 1760 DHA) daily, multivitamin/vitamin d3+k2/zinc daily, whey when needed + casein in the evenings probably.

Also, last question - sorry for a long post - I have very good hair genetics, and so does my father who's norwood 1/1.5 in his late 40s, thick and strong hair, however, I would like to know if a DHT test would indicate how prone I am to have a hair loss occurring after the cycle as obviously I would like to avoid or minimize this risk (I am aware it's always a risk), that's why I wanted to have it checked to see. I have an acne problem, however, which probably would get a bit worse but I am treating this with azithromycin currently.

I want to start my cycle around early February or March the latest.
I plan to keep on lifting on PPL, however, thinking about PHUL routine (4 days a week, however 6x would probably be better on gear).

Any suggestions to my plan, alterations and comments are and will be really greatly appreciated.

Pics taken 31/12
View attachment 213076 View attachment 213077 View attachment 213078

Thank you a lot.
 

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Howdy and welcome.

Obviously you've done some research, which is a good start.

However, couple things: 98kg at 6 ft 3 is not a relatively high bodyweight bro. You need to build up your strength, as your numbers are not great for someone that's considering gear. You can build a better natty foundation before hopping on juice and I would honestly recommend getting training, diet and sleep in check and busting ass for another 6 months to increase your stats before hopping on cycle.

Secondly, just stick with Test only for first cycle. 500mg. Simple, easy, and will introduce you to the world of steroids. You can also see how you respond to the one compound before adding another two. Save the anavar and proviron for second cycle, if you choose to do one.

Lastly, 250mg clomid for PCT? Totally uneccessary.

A simple first cycle can have a simple PCT:

Nolva: 40/20/20/10 (In laymans terms thats; Week 1: 40mg, Week 2: 20mg, Week 3: 20mg, Week 4: 10mg)
Clomid: 50/50/25/25

No need to complicate things.
 

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Put some physique pics up for proper feedback, you are light for your height but if your condition is very bad it may be wise to cut some bf before starting cycle

For first cycle just stick with the 600mg test to see how you get on with it, the gains will be fantastic aslong as you train hard and eat right. And you'll be able to accurately judge sides with using just one compound.

And besides dynamic is a shit lab, so I'd put good money on their var being bunk

Stop watching athleanx

Have an ai just incase but don't use it unless needed (your feeling negatives sides of high estrogen)

I personally wouldnt bother with pct. See how you get on without it give it a few months after the cycle and see how you feel and get bloods to see where your at... Chances are you'll be on another cycle anyway within 12months of finishing your first so another reason not to bother
 

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Any suggestions to my plan, alterations and comments are and will be really greatly appreciated.
No offense but it looks to me like you've read a lot of stuff, picked out some best bits, mashed them together thinking it's a good cycle and will be of benefit to you...

My best guess would be that unless you sort out your diet and start eating properly (real meals inc meat, veg, rice, pasta etc), and track your macros using an app like MyFitnessPal you'll never sort the weight issue out. You also need to commit to a proper routine that involves progressive overload, a good basic starter program like Stronglifts 5x5 would be good to use. Forget about the steroids as you'll most likely just end up fatter, bloated and suffering worse acne. Get the basics sorted first ;).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Howdy and welcome.

Obviously you've done some research, which is a good start.

However, couple things: 98kg at 6 ft 3 is not a relatively high bodyweight bro. You need to build up your strength, as your numbers are not great for someone that's considering gear. You can build a better natty foundation before hopping on juice and I would honestly recommend getting training, diet and sleep in check and busting ass for another 6 months to increase your stats before hopping on cycle.

Secondly, just stick with Test only for first cycle. 500mg. Simple, easy, and will introduce you to the world of steroids. You can also see how you respond to the one compound before adding another two. Save the anavar and proviron for second cycle, if you choose to do one.

Lastly, 250mg clomid for PCT? Totally uneccessary.

A simple first cycle can have a simple PCT:

Nolva: 40/20/20/10 (In laymans terms thats; Week 1: 40mg, Week 2: 20mg, Week 3: 20mg, Week 4: 10mg)
Clomid: 50/50/25/25

No need to complicate things.
Put some physique pics up for proper feedback, you are light for your height but if your condition is very bad it may be wise to cut some bf before starting cycle

For first cycle just stick with the 600mg test to see how you get on with it, the gains will be fantastic aslong as you train hard and eat right. And you'll be able to accurately judge sides with using just one compound.

And besides dynamic is a shit lab, so I'd put good money on their var being bunk

Stop watching athleanx

Have an ai just incase but don't use it unless needed (your feeling negatives sides of high estrogen)

I personally wouldnt bother with pct. See how you get on without it give it a few months after the cycle and see how you feel and get bloods to see where your at... Chances are you'll be on another cycle anyway within 12months of finishing your first so another reason not to bother
Due to Christmas and being generally away from my homeplace, I have not been working out for the last 8 days and the diet was not good either so probably will be a bit more bloated than usual, however for last two days in terms of dieting I am back on track and eating less than usual to balance the calories out.
Some pics taken today:
Joint Shoulder Arm Stomach Muscle
Joint Arm Muscle Shorts Jaw
Joint Stomach Muscle Neck Jaw


You're weak as piss for your weight. Forget steroids and learn how to train
I know that I am, but I cannot improve for some reason. Maybe eating too less but then I am aiming to cut so it's hard to eat more.

No offense but it looks to me like you've read a lot of stuff, picked out some best bits, mashed them together thinking it's a good cycle and will be of benefit to you...

My best guess would be that unless you sort out your diet and start eating properly (real meals inc meat, veg, rice, pasta etc), and track your macros using an app like MyFitnessPal you'll never sort the weight issue out. You also need to commit to a proper routine that involves progressive overload, a good basic starter program like Stronglifts 5x5 would be good to use. Forget about the steroids as you'll most likely just end up fatter, bloated and suffering worse acne. Get the basics sorted first ;).
Thanks, that's insightful. I am aware of the 5x5 but just thought that it should rather be a mix of 5reps max for big lifts and accessories for 8-12. That's why I have been following PPL split.

I am also planning on switching to a different workout routine as PPL may be too less recovery, or just so I am thinking.

also, happy new year everybody.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
@underbiter I can't recommend anybody with your stats to take steroids. You're in effect a beginner. You need to learn to train and eat properly naturally and then you can use steroids to enhance that. Steroids aren't the magic pill you think they are
Thanks for it then. So what would you say in terms of training for somebody with my stats? Should I switch to FBW 3 times a week as this is something beginners tend to do or stronglifts as somebody above suggested? I accept your opinion and I am happy to learn but what would you do for instance in terms of training?
 

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Thanks for it then. So what would you say in terms of training for somebody with my stats? Should I switch to FBW 3 times a week as this is something beginners tend to do or stronglifts as somebody above suggested? I accept your opinion and I am happy to learn but what would you do for instance in terms of training?
Workout a
RDL 3 sets
Shoulder press 3 sets
Chin ups or pull ups 3 sets
Bicep curl 1 set
Tricep extension 1 set
Calf raise 1 set

Workout b
Squats 3 sets
Bench 3 sets
Rows 3 sets
Tricep pushdown 1 set
Hammer curl 1 set
Calf raise 1 set

Alternate workouts every other day

Eat around maintenance calories. You don't need to eat in a surplus as you've got high bodyfat but you don't want to cut as you'll find it hard to progress. All sets to failure and fight to put weight on the bar. Slightly increase calories by a few hundred only if you stall on your lifts. Get yourself to 300lb squat for 5, bench 220lb for 5 while increasing the other lifts. Once you do this you'll have a good foundation. Then you can cut to 12 percent while maintaining these lifts and then you can think of steroids. You'll have a good foundation then can use gear to enhance what you've built
 

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I would also have to agree with Paul, you are a beginner, and look like a beginner. Not ready for steroids for at least another 2 years.

Myfitnesspal app (also can log in via laptop) will teach you about calorie intake. You want to be eating 500 calories more than your body needs each and every day to gain size/strength. Eating at "maintainence" calories - probably about 2500 cals per day for you - may yield some changes but you won't make major progress on your lifts. Only a calorie surplus will enable you to get stronger. A calorie surplus (for most guys) means consuming about 3000 - 3200 cals per day minimum while training hard in the gym 4 or 5 days a week. If you are wanting to cut then that's fine but understand you might not progress much on your lifts, if at all, while cutting.

As far as routines; you can follow what Paul wrote for you, or you can use a bodypart split you find online - type in bulking routine or beginner bulking routine, etc.

Stick with these principles consistently over time. Remember, it will take months, not weeks, to see progression and many beginners think that because they aren't seeing changes in a few weeks then it isn't working. No - the reality of it is that physical changes take a long time. Many of the guys you see on magazine covers have been training for 15+ years to get like that. If you are impatient then bodybuilding isn't for you. You can choose another sport.

If you decide to go down this path, then learn all you can. Implement it. Eat appropriately for your goals. Train hard.

Gear can come later, but you are nowhere near ready. You have another stone or more of muscle to gain before you even approach your natty limit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Workout a
RDL 3 sets
Shoulder press 3 sets
Chin ups or pull ups 3 sets
Bicep curl 1 set
Tricep extension 1 set
Calf raise 1 set

Workout b
Squats 3 sets
Bench 3 sets
Rows 3 sets
Tricep pushdown 1 set
Hammer curl 1 set
Calf raise 1 set

Alternate workouts every other day

Eat around maintenance calories. You don't need to eat in a surplus as you've got high bodyfat but you don't want to cut as you'll find it hard to progress. All sets to failure and fight to put weight on the bar. Slightly increase calories by a few hundred only if you stall on your lifts. Get yourself to 300lb squat for 5, bench 220lb for 5 while increasing the other lifts. Once you do this you'll have a good foundation. Then you can cut to 12 percent while maintaining these lifts and then you can think of steroids. You'll have a good foundation then can use gear to enhance what you've built


I would also have to agree with Paul, you are a beginner, and look like a beginner. Not ready for steroids for at least another 2 years.

Myfitnesspal app (also can log in via laptop) will teach you about calorie intake. You want to be eating 500 calories more than your body needs each and every day to gain size/strength. Eating at "maintainence" calories - probably about 2500 cals per day for you - may yield some changes but you won't make major progress on your lifts. Only a calorie surplus will enable you to get stronger. A calorie surplus (for most guys) means consuming about 3000 - 3200 cals per day minimum while training hard in the gym 4 or 5 days a week. If you are wanting to cut then that's fine but understand you might not progress much on your lifts, if at all, while cutting.

As far as routines; you can follow what Paul wrote for you, or you can use a bodypart split you find online - type in bulking routine or beginner bulking routine, etc.

Stick with these principles consistently over time. Remember, it will take months, not weeks, to see progression and many beginners think that because they aren't seeing changes in a few weeks then it isn't working. No - the reality of it is that physical changes take a long time. Many of the guys you see on magazine covers have been training for 15+ years to get like that. If you are impatient then bodybuilding isn't for you. You can choose another sport.

If you decide to go down this path, then learn all you can. Implement it. Eat appropriately for your goals. Train hard.

Gear can come later, but you are nowhere near ready. You have another stone or more of muscle to gain before you even approach your natty limit.
Thank you for recommendation. I have been following the below PPL split for quite a while:
Pull 1
Hex bar deadlift 4x warm-ups (15, 10, 10, 8 reps increasing weight each set) and 1x5+ final set.
Chest supported row/t-bar rows 3x sets of 8-12 reps
Lat pulldown 3x 8-12reps
Reverse Pec Deck 3x12-15+
Assisted Chin Up 4x to failure (usually 6-8 range) superset with dips
Hanging Knee Raises 3x to failure

Push 1
Bench press 3x warmup sets and 4 sets x5 rps (last with drop set)
Cable high-to-low crossover 3x10-12 reps
Overhead dumbbell seated press 4x8-12
Lateral Raise (1 and half rep each) 4x10-12 last with drop-set
Triceps dumbbel skullcrusher 4x9-12, superset with spider biceps curls 4x8-12
Rotator Cuff External Rotation 3x15reps

Legs 1/2
Squat 3 warm-ups, 4x working sets 5-6 reps
Seated leg press 3x12+
Seated leg hamstring curl / RDL 3x8-12
Leg Extension 3x12
Standing Calf Raise / Hack quat calf raise 3x15+

Pull 2
Assisted Pull up 4x to failure usually 6-8 reps
Seated row 3x12
Hex bar knee shrug 3x12
Straight arm pushdown 3x10-15
Bicep curl (cheat curl at last reps without going more than vertical back) 4x 8-7-6-6 reps with height weight superset with triceps cable pushdown 12,10,10,11 reps
Face pull 3x10-12reps

Push 2
Overhead press: 3x warmup sets 4x 4-6reps sets
Incline dumbbell press 4x 10-12
Cheat lateral raise 4x 8-10
Chest fly (machine) 3x10-12
Bench Press close grip (triceps) 4x 5-6 reps superset with dumbbel supinated curl 4x10-12 reps
Push ups 4x to failure

Comparing this with Paul's suggestion I have done way too much volume, it's a bit tricky to switch fcorm this to what's been proposed actually (mainly the 1 sets for certain exercises). Is that due to recovery?

Also, speaking about cutting/bulking. YOu have seen my body above. I would say I am quite a high BF and bloated. Wouldn't it be smart to shed this off before actually putting on lean mass?

Thanks
 

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Thank you for recommendation. I have been following the below PPL split for quite a while:
Pull 1
Hex bar deadlift 4x warm-ups (15, 10, 10, 8 reps increasing weight each set) and 1x5+ final set.
Chest supported row/t-bar rows 3x sets of 8-12 reps
Lat pulldown 3x 8-12reps
Reverse Pec Deck 3x12-15+
Assisted Chin Up 4x to failure (usually 6-8 range) superset with dips
Hanging Knee Raises 3x to failure

Push 1
Bench press 3x warmup sets and 4 sets x5 rps (last with drop set)
Cable high-to-low crossover 3x10-12 reps
Overhead dumbbell seated press 4x8-12
Lateral Raise (1 and half rep each) 4x10-12 last with drop-set
Triceps dumbbel skullcrusher 4x9-12, superset with spider biceps curls 4x8-12
Rotator Cuff External Rotation 3x15reps

Legs 1/2
Squat 3 warm-ups, 4x working sets 5-6 reps
Seated leg press 3x12+
Seated leg hamstring curl / RDL 3x8-12
Leg Extension 3x12
Standing Calf Raise / Hack quat calf raise 3x15+

Pull 2
Assisted Pull up 4x to failure usually 6-8 reps
Seated row 3x12
Hex bar knee shrug 3x12
Straight arm pushdown 3x10-15
Bicep curl (cheat curl at last reps without going more than vertical back) 4x 8-7-6-6 reps with height weight superset with triceps cable pushdown 12,10,10,11 reps
Face pull 3x10-12reps

Push 2
Overhead press: 3x warmup sets 4x 4-6reps sets
Incline dumbbell press 4x 10-12
Cheat lateral raise 4x 8-10
Chest fly (machine) 3x10-12
Bench Press close grip (triceps) 4x 5-6 reps superset with dumbbel supinated curl 4x10-12 reps
Push ups 4x to failure

Comparing this with Paul's suggestion I have done way too much volume, it's a bit tricky to switch fcorm this to what's been proposed actually (mainly the 1 sets for certain exercises). Is that due to recovery?

Also, speaking about cutting/bulking. YOu have seen my body above. I would say I am quite a high BF and bloated. Wouldn't it be smart to shed this off before actually putting on lean mass?

Thanks
The reason my routine for you is low volume is because your intensity is going to be sky high. You're going to be fighting every session to either add a rep or put more weight on the bar. Getting yourself to a good strength base with these compound movements is the best way to put muscle on. (progressive overload). You could definitely start cutting first but muscle gain is the hardest part of the equation and that's why I would attack that first. I personally wouldn't want to put in effort to cut to look skinny at the end of it. You can then add volume over time only when you need it. For example if you start stalling on bench press, add an exercise to keep you progressing on it. If you started failing on the lockout add some more tricep work. If you start failing the first half of the lift then add a chest isolation like flyes. This will stop you having junk volume and make your time efficient
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Also @underbiter I'm willing to coach you through the whole thing for free. You can inbox me if you want. I'll tell you what tweaks to make and when and how to keep progressing. I'll get you out of the skinny fat physique within 6 month
Thank you for the offer and the comprehensive reply.
I have sent you a private message.
 
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