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Discussion Starter · #663 ·
Autism incoming.



“I’m thinking of adding Tren to my cut to help with muscle retention.”

It’s more difficult to lose muscle tissue than you think if you’re training and dieting properly.

You might have had a bad experience in the past where you’ve started a calorie deficit, lost a little water weight/glycogen after reducing your calorie/carb intake, your sleeves haven’t as felt quite as snug around your arms as usual and you’ve gone in to panic mode thinking you’ve lost a ton of muscle tissue. In reality, you would gain the water/glycogen back as quickly as you lost it as soon as you increased your calorie/carb intake.

We’re on a steroid forum, so I’ll assume we’re all running at least a TRT or cruise dose of Testosterone. It’s more difficult than you think to lose muscle mass while your Test level is through the roof.

Unless you’re really going to the extreme with an obscene daily deficit or you stop training entirely, it’s unlikely you’ll lose much, if any, muscle mass under normal circumstances. With a standard sized deficit of 500-1000 calories per day and regular weight training at a reasonable intensity, you should easily be able to hold on to your muscle mass as a hobbyist PED user. An IFBB Pro who’s gained boat loads of muscle tissue beyond their natural limit might need a touch more, but 99% of us can expect to maintain our muscle mass during a cut on Test alone.

A lot of us are blasting and cruising and our main goal is ultimately to gain muscle mass. If we spend an entire 10 week cut on Tren, our blood work is going to be somewhere between skewed and terrible by the end. By the time we’ve reached our desired level of body fat and in a good position to look at gaining muscle and upping the calories, we’re not really going to be in a position to up the dose without compromising our health because our health markers are already skewed. Surely it makes more sense to use a lighter and more blood work friendly cycle while we’re in a deficit so we can consider running the higher doses and extra compounds while we’re in a surplus and actually in a position to gain muscle? Obviously some people will say screw it and do both, but that’s not sustainable long-term and the health implications of running high doses and multiple compounds year round will creep up on you eventually.

I’m not completely anti-Tren, it has a place in a cutting cycle, but the Test alone should be enough for the muscle retention aspect. Tren can help to polish a physique and can give a certain look which will be more apparent when you’re already very lean. If you’ve cut down to sub 10% and want to add it in for the final few weeks as the icing on the cake to peak your physique then that’s understandable, but for somebody who’s say 17% body fat wanting to cut to 12%, it’s not really going to shine and in my opinion, the pay off wouldn’t be worth compromising blood work.
 

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Thanks for this. I think I’ve veered away from spicy foods without consciously deciding to since I’ve had the symptoms. Caffeine I probably overdo and could definitely look to reduce. I don’t drink alcohol and stress is a tricky one as being stuck in limbo is definitely stressful. I’ll take all of this in to account and do some more reading.
Forgot one thing that should defo be top of the list. Well for me anyways.

No orals at all. If I use orals for any prolonged period of time that’s guaranteed flare. On the other hand I do get on reasonably well with injectable orals but no longer than 6 weeks. 👍
 

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Autism incoming.



“I’m thinking of adding Tren to my cut to help with muscle retention.”

It’s more difficult to lose muscle tissue than you think if you’re training and dieting properly.

You might have had a bad experience in the past where you’ve started a calorie deficit, lost a little water weight/glycogen after reducing your calorie/carb intake, your sleeves haven’t as felt quite as snug around your arms as usual and you’ve gone in to panic mode thinking you’ve lost a ton of muscle tissue. In reality, you would gain the water/glycogen back as quickly as you lost it as soon as you increased your calorie/carb intake.

We’re on a steroid forum, so I’ll assume we’re all running at least a TRT or cruise dose of Testosterone. It’s more difficult than you think to lose muscle mass while your Test level is through the roof.

Unless you’re really going to the extreme with an obscene daily deficit or you stop training entirely, it’s unlikely you’ll lose much, if any, muscle mass under normal circumstances. With a standard sized deficit of 500-1000 calories per day and regular weight training at a reasonable intensity, you should easily be able to hold on to your muscle mass as a hobbyist PED user. An IFBB Pro who’s gained boat loads of muscle tissue beyond their natural limit might need a touch more, but 99% of us can expect to maintain our muscle mass during a cut on Test alone.

A lot of us are blasting and cruising and our main goal is ultimately to gain muscle mass. If we spend an entire 10 week cut on Tren, our blood work is going to be somewhere between skewed and terrible by the end. By the time we’ve reached our desired level of body fat and in a good position to look at gaining muscle and upping the calories, we’re not really going to be in a position to up the dose without compromising our health because our health markers are already skewed. Surely it makes more sense to use a lighter and more blood work friendly cycle while we’re in a deficit so we can consider running the higher doses and extra compounds while we’re in a surplus and actually in a position to gain muscle? Obviously some people will say screw it and do both, but that’s not sustainable long-term and the health implications of running high doses and multiple compounds year round will creep up on you eventually.

I’m not completely anti-Tren, it has a place in a cutting cycle, but the Test alone should be enough for the muscle retention aspect. Tren can help to polish a physique and can give a certain look which will be more apparent when you’re already very lean. If you’ve cut down to sub 10% and want to add it in for the final few weeks as the icing on the cake to peak your physique then that’s understandable, but for somebody who’s say 17% body fat wanting to cut to 12%, it’s not really going to shine and in my opinion, the pay off wouldn’t be worth compromising blood work.
Nobody runs tren. Tren runs you

Recognise
 

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Discussion Starter · #668 ·
23rd June

Today’s pre-training motivation:

Creeping Death Week 5, Session 6 (Legs - Pump):
60 seconds rest in between sets unless specified otherwise.

Cardio Work:
  • 30 minute outdoor cycle
  • 30 minutes maximum incline treadmill power-walk at 135-145 BPM
Legs Session:
  • Leg press 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 - 3 minutes rest in between sets. Pyramid sets. Obscene pump but expended a lot of energy for a single exercise. A 50-rep set is ridiculous.
  • Barbell squat 3 x 20 - Obviously my upper legs were absolutely battered by this point, so I wasn't able to move a lot of weight. 20-rep squats are difficult at the best of times, nevermind after extreme high rep leg press.
  • Lying leg curl 4 x 10 - Felt weird doing these this late in the workout seeing as they've been the first exercise for the majority of the leg workouts in this program. Again, weight used was minimal. Disappointed at how rough the leg curl in my usual gym feels compared to the one I used at the new gym earlier in the week.
  • Seated calf raise 6 x 15 - Held final rep in stretch for 10-seconds with each set.
Only 4 exercises today but I was exhausted after the leg press alone. Keep in mind it's boiling hot outside and my gym isn't very well ventilated. It's a good thing I didn't pass out. I encourage anybody who fancies a change of pace from their usual routine to try that session, absolutely destroys your quads and glutes.

I've slept well for 3 nights in a row now. Feeling a lot better. The Zopiclone has been useful to get my schedule back on track. I should get the results of my blood tests back tomorrow - the Doctor said he would call me at some point during the afternoon. It's an extensive panel so I'll be able to see how I'm doing generally outside of the things he's looking for (B12, iron, inflammation markers etc.)

That's 5 weeks out of 12 completed on this program now. It's been tough but I'll make sure to stick it out. I'll be making another low volume split to follow for a few months once I'm done. Probably suits me a bit better training with lower volume because my energy levels aren't always fantastic right now. I'm excited to see how much things change once I have my health fully under control. I'm gaining/training really well at the moment and I can't be at anywhere near maximim capacity with what's going on, I should be able to make massive leaps once I'm back to 100%.

Shameless plug, but I had 2 client's online coaching blocks finish on Sunday, so I can comfortably fit 2 fresh clients in. If anybody on the forum would benefit from some guidance, drop me a message and we can have a chat.
 

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Full Body Routine.
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I like the sun but we're just not equipped to deal with it in this country. It's a different ball game when you're abroad and everywhere is air conditioned and there's a pool to jump in. It gets unpleasant quite quickly here.
Correct mate, but abroad it is a different heat and atmosphere, it's bearable but here.. 😰 I've sat in air conditioned cars part of the day - lovely... 😎
 

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Discussion Starter · #676 ·
Still early days with this routine but can see and feel I’ve made progress on my upper chest and the thickness of my back. Probably from doing exercises I wouldn’t usually include/prioritise like incline pressing and Meadows/single arm rows. Got a bit of an upper chest shelf coming on now, it used to be pretty flat.
 
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