[vlb]

@vlb

Mate, you're arguing against points that haven't been made, not by me anyway!


The reason (i'd guess) why the Pfizer CEO specifically focused on the Omicron variant is because covid "in general " is currently Omicron. In the UK anyway.

What would be the point in talking about the effectiveness of any vaccine for variants that either no longer exist or are rapidly becoming extinct?

The conclusions you're drawing have no relation to what I'm saying.

Well he was talking about omicron because he was specifically asked about it.

As you say, other variants are less prominent due to vaccines...

So what is your position exactly?

That vaccines do work at reducing illness or that they don't work at all or that it's just transmission that they fail to stop?.

Cheers

 

[SoberHans]

Apparently Aubameyang has had a minor heart scare now and they are trying to say it was due to him recently having Covid.
Him and two of his team mates were shown to have "cardiac lesions".
Athletes are dropping like flies.

 

[BigPinkShrimp]

Apparently Aubameyang has had a minor heart scare now and they are trying to say it was due to him recently having Covid.
Him and two of his team mates were shown to have "cardiac lesions".
Athletes are dropping like flies.

For mr average a legion on the heart probably won’t matter a fcuk, but an athlete at the top of their game? It’s the difference between being a pro and playing for Boston FC

 

[rstiltskin]

Well he was talking about omicron because he was specifically asked about it.

As you say, other variants are less prominent due to vaccines...

So what is your position exactly?

That vaccines do work at reducing illness or that they don't work at all or that it's just transmission that they fail to stop?.

Cheers

My position...I don't trust any of the narrative coming from big pharma or the western establishment and media re any of this. So I really have no idea how effective or safe the vaccines have ever been. The only thing I'm certain of is 'they' won't fudge/distort the data to paint the vaccine in a bad light.

I'm pretty certain you can't provide a credible source that supports your claim that "other variants are less prominent due to vaccines".

I would say it's a plausible theory though. The vaccine may have forced the virus into mutating to evade vaccine immunity. But if that is the case it's more by luck than judgement that we've ended up with Omicron, a strain that is lot less virulent than the original one. Even though driving a car on a daily basis posed a greater threat of death/serious injury than any previous variant to any non elderly reasonably fit and well person.

Google Marek disease . A virus in chickens that leaky vaccines apparently made immensely more deadly to unvaccinated chickens. So now the entire poultry industry is completely dependent on the continued use of these vaccines.

 

[rstiltskin]

A study from Denmark also shows that after the vaccine effects wane, the vaccinated covid case rate then overtakes that of the unvaccinated.

And this was a controlled study where all participants (vaxxed and unvaxxed) were tested at the same intervals. So the results of this study cannot be attributed to the unvaxxed not testing as frequently as the vaxxed.

The top of the green line shows how effective the vaccines were at preventing infection 2 weeks after the 2nd jab. The bottom line shows how effective they were 5 months post 2nd jab.

As you can see with both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines protection against infection eventually falls to negative levels.

Vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infection with the Omicron or Delta variants following a two-dose or booster BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccination series: A Danish cohort study | medRxiv

 

[rstiltskin]

Funnily enough, while in this thread the vaccine defenders speculate that the UK data showing negative vaccine efficacy is likely due to the unvaxxed not giving a sh1t about covid and therefore not testing as frequently (which sounds a reasonably plausible theory TBF)

The authors of the Danish study could not use that excuse as everyone was tested at the same frequency. So this was their explanation as to why they saw the results they did.

“if socialising in larger groups is more common among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated population, then the infection rate will be higher in the vaccinated population because they are much more likely to be exposed to the virus, not because of their vaccination status,” he added.

“VE estimation relies on vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals behaving in a similar fashion in their every-day lives with respect to COVID-19 precautions and exposure to infection risk. It is conceivable that the increasingly small cohort of unvaccinated individuals that remains in Denmark takes further precautions (precisely because they are not well protected), engage less in social activities, etc. Such discrepancies in risk behaviour between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals will lead to an underestimated VE.”

So they reckon it's "conceivable" that the unvaxxed are hiding away in their houses in fear of the virus because they don't have vaccine protection.

But if that was the case wouldn't the same unvaxxed people who are too scared to socialise not also be more likely to be testing more frequently than the vaxxed. Which would kybosh the UK explanation as to why vaxxed case rates are now higher than unvaxxed.

 

[charlysays]

Ok so you believe the data they present but don’t believe when they explain why that data isn’t an indicator or the vaccines effectiveness? 🤔

Or! Is it that the data suits your anti establishment, conspiracy narrative but the explanation doesn’t so you’ll only believe the bits that suit you?

You can’t have it both ways. If they wanted to lie about it don’t you think they would falsify the data?

Neither the data nor the explanation suit his narrative. In his assessment of the data he failed to factor in the small proportion of the population who are classed as unvaccinated (1 jab or none). If he had factored that in he would have realised that unvaccinated people are testing positive at more than twice the rate they should be IF the vaccines were ineffective.
Even the raw data demonstrates vaccine effectiveness before you control for anything else.

 

[rstiltskin]

Neither the data nor the explanation suit his narrative. In his assessment of the data he failed to factor in the small proportion of the population who are classed as unvaccinated (1 jab or none). If he had factored that in he would have realised that unvaccinated people are testing positive at more than twice the rate they should be IF the vaccines were ineffective.
Even the raw data demonstrates vaccine effectiveness before you control for anything else.

You're completely wrong in your assertion here mate. The data from the UK government and the Danish study both show that case rates are currently significantly higher in the vaccinated compared to unvaccinated.

In Denmark the explanation they put forward for this is that the unxaxed are possibly far more cautious and conscious of the virus risk and thus don't expose themselves to infection as much as the vaccinated.

In the UK the explanation seems to be the opposite. The unvaxxed are just getting on with their daily lives not giving 2 sh1ts about the virus, the vaccine or testing.

The latter would seem more plausible TBH. But the indisputable fact is currently the case rate amongst the vaccinated is hugely greater than that of the unvaccinated.

 

[rstiltskin]

@charlysays

Both sets of data refer to "case rates" . So the size of each group (vaxxed / unvaxxed) is irrelevant. This is where the confusion in your above post is stemming from.

 

[BigPinkShrimp]

Neither the data nor the explanation suit his narrative. In his assessment of the data he failed to factor in the small proportion of the population who are classed as unvaccinated (1 jab or none). If he had factored that in he would have realised that unvaccinated people are testing positive at more than twice the rate they should be IF the vaccines were ineffective.
Even the raw data demonstrates vaccine effectiveness before you control for anything else.

I know, I find it both scary and pathetic that someone can misinterpret stuff so wrong but also how they can be so adamant about something they don’t have the slightest understanding of.
I trust the mountains of scientists globally who all agree.
not the odd one that pops up on YouTube 😂

 

[rstiltskin]

I know, I find it both scary and pathetic that someone can misinterpret stuff so wrong but also how they can be so adamant about something they don’t have the slightest understanding of.
I trust the mountains of scientists globally who all agree.
not the odd one that pops up on YouTube 😂

I trust my own eyes. No amount of state /big pharma sponsored scientists trying to explain why black is now white will convince me.

This is how you end up with billions of people living under authoritarian regimes such as in China etc. People blindly follow and "trust" their "leaders" without thinking for themselves, until they reach the point where they're powerless to resist.

You keep letting others think for you though brother if it works for you. Those bi monthly boosters will keep you safe.

Shalom

 

[rstiltskin]

Don't look now folks but those pesky gits in the EU now reckon frequent boosters may damage the immune system.

"As health officials wrestle with the idea of needing another COVID shot amid the surge in Omicron cases, EU regulators have warned that administering a booster to combat the virus frequently could prove to have adverse effects on the immune system."

Multiple Boosters May Not Offer A COVID Solution As EU Warns Of Immune System Risks (ibtimes.com)

Probably just sour grapes over brexit ! There's usually a perfectly plausible explanation if anything should contradict the official covidian narrative.

 

[BigPinkShrimp]

I trust my own eyes. No amount of state /big pharma sponsored scientists trying to explain why black is now white will convince me.

This is how you end up with billions of people living under authoritarian regimes such as in China etc. People blindly follow and "trust" their "leaders" without thinking for themselves, until they reach the point where they're powerless to resist.

You keep letting others think for you though brother if it works for you. Those bi monthly boosters will keep you safe.

Shalom

im sure those eyes are qualified In virology in order to be able to make an educated decision right?

i like how your sort are always able to tell so much about everyone else. Like how I have others think for me etc

the truth is your scared. Your scared of the situation and you want to believe someone is to blame, some higher power like the government or ‘big pharma’ it’s honestly pathetic

 

[rstiltskin]

im sure those eyes are qualified In virology in order to be able to make an educated decision right?

i like how your sort are always able to tell so much about everyone else. Like how I have others think for me etc

the truth is your scared. Your scared of the situation and you want to believe someone is to blame, some higher power like the government or ‘big pharma’ it’s honestly pathetic

I don't need a virologist to explain what the below data is saying. Furthermore the "experts" responsible for compiling both sets of data give completely opposing explanations as to why the vaccinated appear to be more susceptible to infection than the unvaxed.

You're right though. I am damn scared. Not of the virus, I worked out before it even reached the UK that is wasn't much of a threat to the fit and healthy non elderly.

But I admit to being petrified of the people pushing this narrative and where it will all lead.

Shalom

 

[vlb]

My position...I don't trust any of the narrative coming from big pharma or the western establishment and media re any of this. So I really have no idea how effective or safe the vaccines have ever been. The only thing I'm certain of is 'they' won't fudge/distort the data to paint the vaccine in a bad light.

I'm pretty certain you can't provide a credible source that supports your claim that "other variants are less prominent due to vaccines".

I would say it's a plausible theory though. The vaccine may have forced the virus into mutating to evade vaccine immunity. But if that is the case it's more by luck than judgement that we've ended up with Omicron, a strain that is lot less virulent than the original one. Even though driving a car on a daily basis posed a greater threat of death/serious injury than any previous variant to any non elderly reasonably fit and well person.

Google Marek disease . A virus in chickens that leaky vaccines apparently made immensely more deadly to unvaccinated chickens. So now the entire poultry industry is completely dependent on the continued use of these vaccines.

I would only need to quote YOU...

"What would be the point in talking about the effectiveness of any vaccine for variants that either no longer exist or are rapidly becoming extinct?"

You already conceded that the Alpha and Delta variants arent affecting us as much, If you dont believe its because of vaccines then you must believe that the virus's just decided to stop killing people in their millions.....very nice of them and super coincidental that they do it just after a majority of people get vaccines that 'purport' to protect against them...

what a world we live in.

 

[charlysays]

@charlysays

Both sets of data refer to "case rates" . So the size of each group (vaxxed / unvaxxed) is irrelevant. This is where the confusion in your above post is stemming from.

You're right there, I concede. It does look on the face of it as though vaxxed are getting infected a lot more but I'll read the section on vaccine effectiveness. I'm no statistician or epidemiologist and as such any direct comparisons have become difficult for the likes of us, because as soon as the Vax program got underway restrictions were lifted wholesale so there is a lot to consider.
As vlb said above though there is no doubt whatsoever that people are drastically less likely to die from covid since the vaccine program. Could be other factors at play too but it appears to show the Vax reduces serious illness.

 

[rstiltskin]

Seen this Cummings has offered to give evidence under oath that BoJo lied to parliament.

After the absolute nonsense story he insulted the public with when he himself made a mockery lockdown rules l. his word is worth less than a runny turd.

The dudes bitterness and vindictiveness knows no bounds. Pure human excrement.

One thing to come out of it. It shows they all knew the draconian rules were a load of nonsense and unnecessary.

 

[charlysays]

Seen this Cummings has offered to give evidence under oath that BoJo lied to parliament.

After the absolute nonsense story he insulted the public with when he himself made a mockery lockdown rules l. his word is worth less than a runny turd.

The dudes bitterness and vindictiveness knows no bounds. Pure human excrement.

One thing to come out of it. It shows they all knew the draconian rules were a load of nonsense and unnecessary.

Bojo has been caught red handed for lying before and sacked for it from previous jobs. It's most likely he has lied to try to cover his back over the parties. If cummings and hancock had to resign over their breaches of lockdown rules, which didn't amount to having a big party repeatedly then everyone who attended the parties should have to resign too otherwise it's total hypocrisy/ double standards. Personally I hope Bojo stays as PM until the next election as he's currently making a right mess of the tory parties reputation.

 

[vlb]

Seen this Cummings has offered to give evidence under oath that BoJo lied to parliament.

After the absolute nonsense story he insulted the public with when he himself made a mockery lockdown rules l. his word is worth less than a runny turd.

The dudes bitterness and vindictiveness knows no bounds. Pure human excrement.

One thing to come out of it. It shows they all knew the draconian rules were a load of nonsense and unnecessary.

with you on this one, both proven liars so who is one meant to believe.

The thing for me is that Cummings knows where the bodies are buried and he clearly has the hump with bojo, a true popcorn moment.

Bojo has been caught red handed for lying before and sacked for it from previous jobs. It's most likely he has lied to try to cover his back over the parties. If cummings and hancock had to resign over their breaches of lockdown rules, which didn't amount to having a big party repeatedly then everyone who attended the parties should have to resign too otherwise it's total hypocrisy/ double standards. Personally I hope Bojo stays as PM until the next election as he's currently making a right mess of the tory parties reputation.

I dont think Cummings resigned over the barnard castle shit, i think he was bashing heads (not a pun) with bojos missus and bojo began to sideline him. Not only has bojo broken covid rules but he broke the golden rule......bro's before hoes 😂

died in the wool tories must be pulling their hair out over this, up until this shit labour were no where to be seen in the polls, life had never been so good for the tories, massive leads in the polls despite the numerous covid & brexit fiascos, labour rife with infighting, humping labour in red wall seats.

then bojos lying catches up with him and it all starts to crumble like a house of cards.....

poetic as ****

 

[charlysays]

with you on this one, both proven liars so who is one meant to believe.

The thing for me is that Cummings knows where the bodies are buried and he clearly has the hump with bojo, a true popcorn moment.





I dont think Cummings resigned over the barnard castle shit, i think he was bashing heads (not a pun) with bojos missus and bojo began to sideline him. Not only has bojo broken covid rules but he broke the golden rule......bro's before hoes 😂

died in the wool tories must be pulling their hair out over this, up until this shit labour were no where to be seen in the polls, life had never been so good for the tories, massive leads in the polls despite the numerous covid & brexit fiascos, labour rife with infighting, humping labour in red wall seats.

then bojos lying catches up with him and it all starts to crumble like a house of cards.....

poetic as ****

The British public have a very short memory. Remember when labour was the party of antisemitism? Nothing much to be seen about that since the election and now they're as far ahead in the polls as the Tories were when they won their landslide election. What was ridiculous about the antisemitism row was that there are no direct quotes of JC being anti-Semitic, it was all by association and extrapolation. Meanwhile Bojo can be directly quoted as having made racist, homophobic and Islamophobic comments not to mention his track record as a proven liar and that caused him no trouble during the election lol. The owners for the MSM massively enabled him to win and they will have a similar influence at the next election.