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I think those opposing case rate data and the Pfizer CEO are more guilty of cherry picking the bits of data that support their bias and are possibly in denial to some extent. They probably feel like they've been duped to some degree.
Not just Pfizer, the data supplied by Pfizer quoted by the FDA in the document supporting their approval was so far out of date it was laughable.

The data you are using to support transmission being higher vaxxed vs unvaxxed is also inappropriate though. It is merely raw data relating to reported cases, which bearing in mind the likely reluctance of the unvaccinated to test it absolutely not the same thing.
I have tested myself for Covid a total of twice, in the space of 3 days, only because I was at a birthday party where my mate tested positive for Covid a couple of days after the party.
Had I not been due to see my 78 yo mother I probably wouldn't have bothered.
Most people refusing the vacc will have more than likely tested even less than I have.

Two wrong don't make a right, and all that.
 

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Nearly as many uneducated people are vaccine skeptics as PhD educated but the stats don't show what % of PhD students are vaccine skeptics.

Considering only 10% of people are vaccine skeptics I don't think making up 23% of this group puts you in the majority.
"People with a PhD are the most hesitant when it comes to getting the Covid-19 vaccine, according to a paper by researchers from Carnegie Mellon University and the University of Pittsburgh.
Researchers surveyed just over five million US adults in an online survey, with 10,000 reporting that they were educated to PhD level.
The report showed a surprising U-shaped correlation between willingness to get a Covid vaccine and education level - with the highest hesitancy among those least and most educated. "


Although we don't know what percentage of PHD grads are covid vaccine hesitant. We do know its a greater percentage than any other education level group.

This is what allows them to claim "people with a PHD are the most hesitant"

Careful also in labelling people that do not want the covid vaccine as "vaccine skeptics" the vast majority have no problem with other(shall we say)more rigorously tested vaccines.

You've probably picked that phrase up from your handlers, it's a phrase they like to use to demonise those that don't want the covid jab.

It very much falls into the misinformation category I would say.
 

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The video seems to me to be an advert for the new version of the Pfizer vaccine... available soon.
I'm not sure if I am more disturbed by the blatant advert for the new version of the vaccine or the fact that the only thing mickey stiltskin took from it was the poor performance of 2 doses of the existing vaccine.
TBF, I couldn't be arsed watching the whole thing either but when they started touting the new vaccine available in March I think I got the idea...lol
I doubt it. You'll be first in line for the new experiment
 

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You've probably picked that phrase up from your handlers, it's a phrase they like to use to demonise those that don't want the covid jab.
Calm down Mikey, you'll get yourself a ban for insulting people again. I used that language as that was the original language used when quoting this stat. Maybe you want to pick lewdylwedy up for saying it?
 

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Its Nice To Be Nice
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Yeah he has be called "The Honourable Member for the 18th century" more than once...lol.
Some of his more 'traditional' views are not likely to go down well with a lot of voters in this Woke era.
There is no place for an intelligent, eloquent, principled individual in modern politics...totally unelectable :(
Intelligent Yes
Eloquent Yes
Principled Yes but JRM does not share the same principles as you and I mate
 

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Nearly as many uneducated people are vaccine skeptics as PhD educated but the stats don't show what % of PhD students are vaccine skeptics.

Considering only 10% of people are vaccine skeptics I don't think making up 23% of this group puts you in the majority.
Much more than 10% are skeptics.

Around 23% of the U.K. remains unvaccinated (zero jabs), however a great deal of people who got vaccinated did so because they wanted to go on holiday, were facing pressure from peers or employers, and millions more have only had 1 or 2 jabs so are no longer classed “fully vaccinated”.

Every one of your opinions seems aimed at being in the “majority” you mention it in every other post. And you wonder where people like Wylde get the sheep analogy from.
 

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Calm down Mikey, you'll get yourself a ban for insulting people again. I used that language as that was the original language used when quoting this stat. Maybe you want to pick lewdylwedy up for saying it?
You should try sticking to the topic at hand and stop using this mickey character (whoever that is) as a diversion.

Serious question. Have you had your booster yet? I see Scotland have already changed the definition of fully vaxxed to 3 jabs . Doubt it will be long till England follows suit.

In Scotland they're allowing 'fully vaxed' not to isolate if they come in contact with a positive case.

In your esteemed opinion would you say this policy is "following the science" ? When we know the government's own data shows case rates are twice as high in the vaxxed...?

Looking at the evidence there would appear to be more scientific grounds to let the unvaxxed forego isolation rather than the super carrier vaxxed.

This would seem like more of a reward punishment system, than anything with any scientific benefit.
 

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Can you link these studies? Peer reviewed I assume?
It seems people have already beat me to it.

I have no idea if they have been peer reviewed. I would offer an explanation as to why the peer review process is flawed (if not entirely corrupt), however Mr Denied got very upset when I explained this recently and I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.
 

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It seems people have already beat me to it.

I have no idea if they have been peer reviewed. I would offer an explanation as to why the peer review process is flawed (if not entirely corrupt), however Mr Denied got very upset when I explained this recently and I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.
We’re not about hurting feelings on here ☺
the forum of love ❤
 

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Its Nice To Be Nice
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**** sake this thread went mental quickly eh




Yes, because it's pure conjecture and speculation and basically clutching at straws to find excuses for why the vaccine is now basically useless (or worse!), at least in terms of preventing infection.


It's time to wake up folks. You've been lied to about basically everything since the beginning of this thing. From the over inflating of the Covid death toll by using the "death within 28 days for any reason following a positive test", a metric never seen or heard of before for any contagious disease, to telling people that locking them in their houses while restricting their access to healthcare and wrecking their businesses and mental health was "saving lives".

To the huge exaggeration of the vaccines efficacy. It's nearly entirely all been lies and misinformation. You've seen in the last week or so how easily Boris and co lie through their teeth regarding their rule breaking etc , well big pharma is probably the single and only more dishonest industry than politics.

And these are the people that have brought you this entire false narrative and agenda.

If you don't believe the government's own data perhaps you'll believe the CEO of Pfizer when he tells you that 2 jabs (fully vaccinated) now offer "limited if any protection" .

1min 30seconds




Although I fear many of you have been so badly browbeaten by this stage, by what can only be described as phycological warfare and torture that's been unleashed on you by the western MSM and establishment over the past 2 years, that many of you now completely lost your powers of judgement and rationale. So even when you hear the manufacturer of the vaccine themselves actually having to admit the vaccines are currently next to useless at preventing infection, you'll still struggle to accept this fact.

Have a good day all and be safe and stay alert!
I just watched the video mate and he was exclusively talking about the 'current 3 dose vaccines effectiveness against omnicron', you are painting it asif he is talking about covid in general.

Here is that part of the interview transcribed...

"Interviewer : Whats in stake (sic) for us in fall of 22"


"CEO: Yeah the situation has been deteriorated because of the omicron had a very quick erm ramp up it is a disease that manifests a little bit less in terms of mildness, i mean its more mild but you know because of the higher infe..higher infectious rates still the hospitals and absolute number are going much higher in terms of severe disease, icus occupation etc etc so, and we know that the three...that the two doses of vaccine offer very limited protection if any, the three doses with the booster they offer reasonable protection against hospitalisation and death, against death i think very good.and less protection against infection.

Now we are working on a new version for vaccine, the 1.1 let me put it that way that will cover omicron as well.."



So thats misquoted information .

I see the government has put out this story on some Chinese espionage BS today trying to deflect public attention away from the Downing Street lockdown bashes.

Nothing better than using China or Russia as a scapegoat when under pressure. Unfortunately the threat to democracy and freedom is a lot closer to home.
standard operating procedure, i am surprised it has taken them so long to roll out the fear train.


Why would they falsify data to go against their own narrative :unsure::unsure: ?
What do you think their narrative is?

And why would the Pfizer CEO from the clip above say that 2 jabs currently offer "very limited if any protection"
See this is what I was saying, many have been so hypnotized by the relentless propaganda even when Pfizer themselves tell you 2 jabs are no longer any good, you won't even believe them!
3rd misquote


You're missing point. The agenda has been to relentlessly promote the vaccine, tell you how great and safe they are, and to justify the whole two tier society vaccine passport concept, the vaccines need to effective at reducing transmission.


If they were going to falsify data, which 100% they are more than dishonest enough to do.

Why would they falsify the data to show that the vaxxed are testing positive at twice the rate of the unvaxxed?

When people tell lies they tend to so in their own favour, not against it!
To what end? what do world governments get out of creating 2 tier societies?


Yes it does. Because if it isn't stopping transmission there's no logical or sane reason to set up a two tier society allowing the vaxxed more rights and freedoms than the unvaxxed.

If the vaccine reduces risk of severe illness/death then that's absolutely fantastic news. But there's clearly no justification for continuing to persecute those that decide they don't need or want to take it.
I used to think this way too, what's the point in stopping unvaxxed from travelling when the vaxxed are just as likely to spread it ....utter ****ing madness however it dawned on me that the 'spreading' isn't the reason behind it. Countries don't want you visiting if you are unvaxxed not because you might spread it but because if you become ill with it you are using their resources, think about how many folk from the UK go to Spain each year, if 25% of them were unvaxxed and took really unwell the Spanish health care system would collapse, Spaniards wouldn't be able to get their treatments and governments would get the boot for allowing it to happen.

For those reasons the vax passport makes perfect sense.

With the hundreds of billions that's literally been chucked down the drain with the pointless mass testing of perfectly healthy people, paying people to sit at home instead of going to work, building field hospitals to only realise once built that you can't staff them, the wrecking of businesses, etcetera etcetera, the list is practically endless.

You really think this' vaccine' program has anything to with "cheapness" ? The whole sorry fiasco has been the complete opposite. The goal has been to print and chuck as much money down the drain in the shortest time as possible.

You don't need to health screen anyone. Just give them all the relevant information they need to make an informed decision as to whether they want the vaccine or not.

I'm sure that's how medicine used to work pre 2020
i agree that they have spunked billions down the drain with poor reactionary decisions but thats another conversation altogether, i dont think it has been a "Goal".

In terms of health screening pre 2020 and the need not to screen everyone, people are screened daily for a variety of diseases so this isnt a recent thing, granted there isnt a queue of women waiting outside a pop up tent to get breast screening but covid does\has the potential to shut down large parts of the economy so i understand the need.



Conspiracy theory? You've just seen the a Pfizer CEO tell you from his own mouth that 2 shots of the vaccine is no longer any good.

And yet you're still attempting to argue otherwise and I'm the conspiracy theorist.....OK....
4th misquote


Nothing about Starmer in the Labour party offices drinking with his workers during lockdown? The lefty press wont run with that.
might get something on GB news though



Strange how the government has money to burn when they want to, but don’t invest in areas and infrastructure that are in dire need, as we are in national debt.
Well now we’ve spunked 100’s of billions we may finally get our belongings repossessed by the bailiffs and a bad credit rating against the countries name.
Agree with this to an extent, i get that they had to shake the money tree for this but that same money tree doesn't exist when we are talking about NHS, Pensioners, Vulnerable people etc.

Its all about priorities

Didnt the UK lose its triple A rating in 2013?

I've literally just posted a video with a Pfizer CEO saying that 2 jabs currently offer very limited if any protection, a point further supported by our own government data.

And you're still arguing that it's not the case?

It's really sad to see what 2 years of being mentally beaten down by such aggressive state propaganda and conditioning has done to the cognitive function of the masses.
5th misquote


Its completely criminal. The amount of good that could have been done with all the public money chucked away on all this counterproductive covid nonsense.

Literally hundreds of youth clubs, council leisure centres, investment in health care. Things that would drastically benefit generations to come.

And what we've done instead? Pay people a wage to sit at home on their arses with box fulls of pathetic unreliable test kits, sticking swabs up their nostrils every 5 minutes, when there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.


It's literally criminal.
although i dont think the covid stuff has been "counter productive" i agree with your sentiment

This, I agree with to an extent.
At least Bojo has gone along with this reluctantly, or so it seem to me.

Unfortunately, I live in Scotland and it looks like Nicola Stalin and the Scottish Nazi Party are loving it:mad:

whats the quote about interrupting your enemy whilst they are making a mistake?

Several studies and surveys have showed conclusively that those with the highest levels of educational achievement and intelligence are the people most likely to be vaccine/lockdown skeptics.
Education and intelligence shouldn't be conflated, i know plenty of idiots who have a degree and plenty of uneducated who are clever as ****.



I quoted that one sentence because it was the relevant part relating to the current efficacy of the vaccine.

If you think I have somehow taken that sentence out of context and he didn't literally mean that 2 jabs are now of little use if any against infection please highlight what else he said that alters the context.
Misquote 6.


lol
Not good business promoting your new vaccine by discrediting the effectiveness of the past 2?
Can’t write it
misquote 7
 

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**** sake this thread went mental quickly eh






I just watched the video mate and he was exclusively talking about the 'current 3 dose vaccines effectiveness against omnicron', you are painting it asif he is talking about covid in general.

Here is that part of the interview transcribed...

"Interviewer : Whats in stake (sic) for us in fall of 22"


"CEO: Yeah the situation has been deteriorated because of the omicron had a very quick erm ramp up it is a disease that manifests a little bit less in terms of mildness, i mean its more mild but you know because of the higher infe..higher infectious rates still the hospitals and absolute number are going much higher in terms of severe disease, icus occupation etc etc so, and we know that the three...that the two doses of vaccine offer very limited protection if any, the three doses with the booster they offer reasonable protection against hospitalisation and death, against death i think very good.and less protection against infection.

Now we are working on a new version for vaccine, the 1.1 let me put it that way that will cover omicron as well.."



So thats misquoted information .



standard operating procedure, i am surprised it has taken them so long to roll out the fear train.




What do you think their narrative is?



3rd misquote




To what end? what do world governments get out of creating 2 tier societies?




I used to think this way too, what's the point in stopping unvaxxed from travelling when the vaxxed are just as likely to spread it ....utter ****ing madness however it dawned on me that the 'spreading' isn't the reason behind it. Countries don't want you visiting if you are unvaxxed not because you might spread it but because if you become ill with it you are using their resources, think about how many folk from the UK go to Spain each year, if 25% of them were unvaxxed and took really unwell the Spanish health care system would collapse, Spaniards wouldn't be able to get their treatments and governments would get the boot for allowing it to happen.

For those reasons the vax passport makes perfect sense.



i agree that they have spunked billions down the drain with poor reactionary decisions but thats another conversation altogether, i dont think it has been a "Goal".

In terms of health screening pre 2020 and the need not to screen everyone, people are screened daily for a variety of diseases so this isnt a recent thing, granted there isnt a queue of women waiting outside a pop up tent to get breast screening but covid does\has the potential to shut down large parts of the economy so i understand the need.





4th misquote




might get something on GB news though





Agree with this to an extent, i get that they had to shake the money tree for this but that same money tree doesn't exist when we are talking about NHS, Pensioners, Vulnerable people etc.

Its all about priorities

Didnt the UK lose its triple A rating in 2013?



5th misquote




although i dont think the covid stuff has been "counter productive" i agree with your sentiment




whats the quote about interrupting your enemy whilst they are making a mistake?



Education and intelligence shouldn't be conflated, i know plenty of idiots who have a degree and plenty of uneducated who are clever as ****.





Misquote 6.




misquote 7
No misquotes from me. I'm very careful to present anything I put forward honestly and free of misinformation.

At the end of December 21, Omicron accounted for more than 90% of community cases in the UK (that's more than 9 out of every 10 cases) and that percentage will no doubt be even bigger now and will keep growing until another variant displaces it. That's how every newly dominant variant has gone thus far.

So no misquote. When the Pfizer CEO said 2 jabs now offer "very limited if any protection" that basically currently refers to "Covid in general" in the UK.




IMO the government narrative throughout has been to over inflate the threat posed by the virus while over inflating the effectiveness and safety of the vaccine. Obviously this is a personal opinion.

But you will never find me misquoting anything. I can assure you of that.

Out of interest have you been 'vaccinated'? If so how many jabs so far?
 

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Its Nice To Be Nice
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No misquotes from me. I'm very careful to present anything I put forward honestly and free of misinformation.

At the end of December 21, Omicron accounted for more than 90% of community cases in the UK (that's more than 9 out of every 10 cases) and that percentage will no doubt be even bigger now and will keep growing until another variant displaces it. That's how every newly dominant variant has gone thus far.

So no misquote. When the Pfizer CEO said 2 jabs now offer "very limited if any protection" that basically currently refers to "Covid in general" in the UK.




IMO the government narrative throughout has been to over inflate the threat posed by the virus while over inflating the effectiveness and safety of the vaccine. Obviously this is a personal opinion.

But you will never find me misquoting anything. I can assure you of that.

Out of interest have you been 'vaccinated'? If so how many jabs so far?

I am not sure what relevance you are drawing by mentioning the end of December 21, why is it relevant to what he said that omnicron made up 90% of covid cases?

Infact you are actually arguing against your own case by presenting that information, heres why

1) If (as you state) omnicron made up 90% of all new cases then that in itself shows that vaccines against the other variants were working, so why would he say they weren't?
2) If (as you state) omnicron was the dominant variant by the 21st of December then it makes it even more conceivable that in ANY conversation where covid stats are being discussed (and no specific variant is mentioned) that the latest and most dominant variant is at the centre of the conversation.

Number 2 isnt so relevant here though as he clearly states what variant he is talking about....on video.

i appreciate you not taking my post as confrontational and i respect that you may want to be "very careful to present anything I put forward honestly and free of misinformation" however the only way one could mistake what the Pfizer CEO was talking about was if either

1) you didn't watch the video
2) You don't understand english
3) you don't understand how a conversation flows

I don't think any of the above apply to you so i can only assume you are hearing what you want to hear.

I would direct your attention towards these articles

This one discusses the same interview you and i are talking about and they recognised what he said as being specifically about 'omnicron'


then there is this, another talk he gave where the message was the same


Here he is on the 2nd of December BEFORE the omnicron variant was discovered explaining how effective the vaccines were


To think that between 2nd December 2021 and 11th January 2022 (the date of the interview) he would go from "our vaccines have saved millions of lives" to "our vaccines dont work" is a ridiculous position to take.

You are simply wrong here mate.


I have had 1 jab and only just recently got it, i am booked up to go abroad next year with the family so couldnt get around it.

I am not anti vax or pro vax, i take medication and was unsure how it would react with the vaccine so i put it off as long as i could, in the end i had no ill effects thats not to say however that the second or third (or how ever many they deem i need to get into their country) wont interact with my current medicine.
 

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@vlb

Think you're hugely misinterpreting what I've said and are starting to put words in my mouth to some extent.

two points I've put forward here:
1) current government data shows the case rate for the vaccinated is currently twice as high as for the unvaccinated.
2) The Pfizer CEO in the mentioned clip said currently 2 jabs of their vaccine offers "very limited protection if any"

These are both indisputable facts. I never said "the vaccines don't work" But the data and the words of the Pfizer executive would point to this, in terms of infection at least.

The fact that he was referring to Omicron when Omicron makes up more than 90% of cases in the UK, means for all intents and purposes 2 jabs currently are very ineffective against "Covid in general" in the UK. If we're to believe the data and the Pfizer CEo, of course.

Have a good day mate.
 

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Could you highlight this post and my reply where I got upset? Must have missed both those posts.
Ah it seems upon review that it was actually @Todai who got upset when I explained problems with the peer review process.

That’s the problem with people who are always in the majority, you are all the same and are interchangeable.
 

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Of all the explanations why vaccinated people are testing positive they all ignore one thing. People who have had their booster in the last 6 weeks have the lowest case numbers of anyone.

All the arguments suggested for why should also apply to this group.

The only logical conclusion is that the vaccine does work, but only for a few weeks, and as it wanes your immunity doesn’t just drop back to baseline it drops below it. So the only way to solve everything with vaccines would be to jab the entire population every 4-6 weeks.

Can anyone explain why all the statements/excuses below the table of figures doesn’t apply to recently vaccinated. Need even more mental gymnastics now.
 

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Its Nice To Be Nice
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@vlb

Think you're hugely misinterpreting what I've said and are starting to put words in my mouth to some extent.

two points I've put forward here:
1) current government data shows the case rate for the vaccinated is currently twice as high as for the unvaccinated.
2) The Pfizer CEO in the mentioned clip said currently 2 jabs of their vaccine offers "very limited protection if any"

These are both indisputable facts. I never said "the vaccines don't work" But the data and the words of the Pfizer executive would point to this, in terms of infection at least.

The fact that he was referring to Omicron when Omicron makes up more than 90% of cases in the UK, means for all intents and purposes 2 jabs currently are very ineffective against "Covid in general" in the UK. If we're to believe the data and the Pfizer CEo, of course.

Have a good day mate.
1) current government data shows the case rate for the vaccinated is currently twice as high as for the unvaccinated.

cant argue against that

2) The Pfizer CEO in the mentioned clip said currently 2 jabs of their vaccine offers "very limited protection if any"

against the Omicron variant yes.

I never said "the vaccines don't work"

No YOU didn't, you said the CEO of Pfizer said it.

believe the CEO of Pfizer when he tells you that 2 jabs (fully vaccinated) now offer "limited if any protection" .

And why would the Pfizer CEO from the clip above say that 2 jabs currently offer "very limited if any protection"

You've just seen the a Pfizer CEO tell you from his own mouth that 2 shots of the vaccine is no longer any good.

I've literally just posted a video with a Pfizer CEO saying that 2 jabs currently offer very limited if any protection,


The problem is you don't distinguish between variants so it paints a false picture, judging by your last comment you think that due to Omicron being the dominant variant now means all Covid Vaccine stats should be measured and reported through an Omicron prism....

so by that logic headlines such as

'No current vaccine for covid'

'not a single person vaccinated against covid 19'

'only 10 covid deaths reported this year'

would be acceptable and wouldn't have you squinting your eye thinking 'fear mongering fannies'....
 

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@vlb

Mate, you're arguing against points that haven't been made, not by me anyway!


The reason (i'd guess) why the Pfizer CEO specifically focused on the Omicron variant is because covid "in general " is currently Omicron. In the UK anyway.

What would be the point in talking about the effectiveness of any vaccine for variants that either no longer exist or are rapidly becoming extinct?

The conclusions you're drawing have no relation to what I'm saying.
 

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Ah it seems upon review that it was actually @Todai who got upset when I explained problems with the peer review process.

That’s the problem with people who are always in the majority, you are all the same and are interchangeable.
it's not normally the majority that are wrong.... ;) look at flat earthers as an example :)
 
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