[vegvisir]

Hello,

I hope someone can give me some advice on my current bloodwork...

I've recently been on cycle for 12 weeks - the first 8 on Sus250 (Alpha Pharma Induject) and the last 4 on Test Cyp 250 (Sven Pharma). 500mg per week. Both UGL sourced in Thailand. I suspect the Sus to have been fake or seriously underdosed.

I'm somewhat of a newbie to AAS. I've run a few half-arsed short cycles in the past with mistimed pins but this time I wanted to do a proper cycle.

I've gained nothing - have actually dropped weight by about 5kg - no water intracelluar or otherwise. (Yes, I know diet would be something to look at)

I've not used an AI as I couldn't get hold of it at the time. Instead I've just been using Tamoxifen 20mg EOD.

So, the results in week 4 of the test cyp have come back as follows:

Testosterone: 3,461 ng/dl
Testosterone: 34.61 ng/ml
Free Testosterone: 118 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 3.4%

E2: 163 pg/ml

Screenshots with detail attached.

The questions:

Is the total and free test what you would expect from 500mg?

The E2 is high but as a percentage against Test, is it really that high? Do I need an AI?

Why no gains? Even with a bad diet, I would expect to be putting on weight, even just water but there's been nothing. I've seen better results from mild orals.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[PaulNe]

If you don't eat in a surplus then you have gave your body nothing to build muscle with and if you've lost weight then you have been in a deficit not a surplus. You shouldn't be on gear if you don't know simple nutrition

 

[B88F]

Your at 3500 ng/dl i'd say your gear is fine, as @PaulNe has just stated it must be diet related, you can't gain muscle in calorie deficit, unless you are a skinny as newbie to gear, even then it'll be minimal.

 

[Pegasus]

As the guys said above, can you post your diet? Even on bunk gear, eat in a surplus, your weight goes up.

 

[vegvisir]

Thanks a lot for the responses.

@PaulNe @Pegasus Most days I get about 3000Kcal - Protein:30% Fat: 20% Carbs: 50%.

I'm not new to lifting or even gear - I've just never run a long/proper cycle

@B88F I'm 41, 6'2", 90kg, lean with legs like twiglets. I've been over 110kg natty and leanish. Yes, I think the Cyp that I've started over the last four weeks is good and I have the bloods to prove that. Also, my nuts have disappeared. I just think the Sus I was running before was suspect.

Do you think the E2 is anything to worry about?

I am surprised that there's no water retention as when I've used Sus or E before, almost instantly there's water in arms, shoulders, traps.

 

[Ironpump86]

Hello,

I hope someone can give me some advice on my current bloodwork...

I've recently been on cycle for 12 weeks - the first 8 on Sus250 (Alpha Pharma Induject) and the last 4 on Test Cyp 250 (Sven Pharma). 500mg per week. Both UGL sourced in Thailand. I suspect the Sus to have been fake or seriously underdosed.

I'm somewhat of a newbie to AAS. I've run a few half-arsed short cycles in the past with mistimed pins but this time I wanted to do a proper cycle.

I've gained nothing - have actually dropped weight by about 5kg - no water intracelluar or otherwise. (Yes, I know diet would be something to look at)

I've not used an AI as I couldn't get hold of it at the time. Instead I've just been using Tamoxifen 20mg EOD.

So, the results in week 4 of the test cyp have come back as follows:

Testosterone: 3,461 ng/dl
Testosterone: 34.61 ng/ml
Free Testosterone: 118 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 3.4%

E2: 163 pg/ml

Screenshots with detail attached.

The questions:

Is the total and free test what you would expect from 500mg?

The E2 is high but as a percentage against Test, is it really that high? Do I need an AI?

Why no gains? Even with a bad diet, I would expect to be putting on weight, even just water but there's been nothing. I've seen better results from mild orals.

Any advice appreciated.

Your gear is absolutely fine so no concerns there, It’s got to be your training and diet.

I trained for 10 years and thought I trained properly until I had a workout with a former Mr Universe (Jason corrick) oh how wrong was I, he had me on 60% less weights but the form was 100%, couldn’t walk for 2 days.

Hire a coach and get them to look at everything, Gear isn’t the answer to holes in your diet and training.

 

[simonboyle]

Hello,

I hope someone can give me some advice on my current bloodwork...

I've recently been on cycle for 12 weeks - the first 8 on Sus250 (Alpha Pharma Induject) and the last 4 on Test Cyp 250 (Sven Pharma). 500mg per week. Both UGL sourced in Thailand. I suspect the Sus to have been fake or seriously underdosed.

I'm somewhat of a newbie to AAS. I've run a few half-arsed short cycles in the past with mistimed pins but this time I wanted to do a proper cycle.

I've gained nothing - have actually dropped weight by about 5kg - no water intracelluar or otherwise. (Yes, I know diet would be something to look at)

I've not used an AI as I couldn't get hold of it at the time. Instead I've just been using Tamoxifen 20mg EOD.

So, the results in week 4 of the test cyp have come back as follows:

Testosterone: 3,461 ng/dl
Testosterone: 34.61 ng/ml
Free Testosterone: 118 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 3.4%

E2: 163 pg/ml

Screenshots with detail attached.

The questions:

Is the total and free test what you would expect from 500mg?

The E2 is high but as a percentage against Test, is it really that high? Do I need an AI?

Why no gains? Even with a bad diet, I would expect to be putting on weight, even just water but there's been nothing. I've seen better results from mild orals.

Any advice appreciated.

You weren't eating then. If you lost weight you were in a deficit.

Everything else is unimportant due to those two things.

 

[simonboyle]

Thanks a lot for the responses.

@PaulNe @Pegasus Most days I get about 3000Kcal - Protein:30% Fat: 20% Carbs: 50%.

I'm not new to lifting or even gear - I've just never run a long/proper cycle

@B88F I'm 41, 6'2", 90kg, lean with legs like twiglets. I've been over 110kg natty and leanish. Yes, I think the Cyp that I've started over the last four weeks is good and I have the bloods to prove that. Also, my nuts have disappeared. I just think the Sus I was running before was suspect.

Do you think the E2 is anything to worry about?

I am surprised that there's no water retention as when I've used Sus or E before, almost instantly there's water in arms, shoulders, traps.

Unimportant. You're not eating. It's that simple. If you lost weight on 3k cals then 3k calsnis a deficit for you. Were you weighing and measuring your food?

Don't blame the drugs. You don't know how to eat.

 

[vegvisir]

@Ironpump86 I can appreciate that - training can always be better. For what it's worth, I'm on a four day split and train 6 days a week. Yes, I definitely use lighter weights nowadays particularly on isolation exercises. There's that and working around injuries; no need for heavy all the time.

I wonder if my E2 is competing at the receptor sites to some degree though. I mean, 163 pg/ml is very high isn't it?

 

[vegvisir]

Unimportant. You're not eating. It's that simple. If you lost weight on 3k cals then 3k calsnis a deficit for you. Were you weighing and measuring your food?

Don't blame the drugs. You don't know how to eat.

@simonboyle appreciate that. Yes, I do my best to track everything that I eat.

 

[Ironpump86]

@Ironpump86 I can appreciate that - training can always be better. For what it's worth, I'm on a four day split and train 6 days a week. Yes, I definitely use lighter weights nowadays particularly on isolation exercises. There's that and working around injuries; no need for heavy all the time.

I wonder if my E2 is competing at the receptor sites to some degree though. I mean, 163 pg/ml is very high isn't it?

THIS is the problem nowadays….

“You’re wondering if your issue is that your E2 is competing at the receptor site to some degree”

Yes mate that’s the whole reason FFS

5 minutes ago you thought your gear was bunk, how many more reality checks do you need to have to see that it’s your training and diet that’s the issue.

 

[vegvisir]

@Ironpump86 I thought what i was running previous to the last four weeks was bunk. What I have now is clearly alright - the bloodwork shows that.

I get the main message here: I need to eat BIG. I do know my body somewhat but I can play with 400 calories here or there.

However, I'm still curious as to what experienced users think to my E2 level. That's why I'm here and asking the question.

 

[simonboyle]

@simonboyle appreciate that. Yes, I do my best to track everything that I eat.

Well, sorry to say, you're not doing a good job of it. If you're losing weight, simply, you're not eating enough. And no not "eat big". Eat properly.

 

[DLTBB]

I need to eat BIG

You don’t need to eat BIG. You just need to be in a consistent surplus, which you’re not or you wouldn’t have lost weight whether you’re on perfectly doses gear, bunk gear or natural.

 

[vegvisir]

Alright, thank you all for the input.

I do believe the gear before the last four weeks of cyp was fake (there's lots of fake stuff here) as I started to experience sides when I started using this.

Does anybody think that E2 is too high?

 

[Brodhurst]

E2 is fine check my bloods from my previous posts. It’s the diet mate. I’d up it to 4k calories a day for a month and see where that gets you.

 

[vegvisir]

@Brodhurst Nice one - thanks a lot for that.

If you're referring to this post: Before and after bloods

When running the conversions, my E2 is ~0.5% of total Test. Yours is ~0.37%.

Your natural levels are top also... And you're also getting higher test from just 300mg...

You mentioned using some adex when you saw the E2 levels. How did that go? I'm concerned about the same thing but when I actually look at the ratios, it doesn't seem that much.

 

[Brodhurst]

@Brodhurst Nice one - thanks a lot for that.

If you're referring to this post: Before and after bloods

When running the conversions, my E2 is ~0.5% of total Test. Yours is ~0.37%.

Your natural levels are top also... And you're also getting higher test from just 300mg...

You mentioned using some adex when you saw the E2 levels. How did that go? I'm concerned about the same thing but when I actually look at the ratios, it doesn't seem that much.

I didn’t add in any adex, I’ve been on 300 test for since start of lockdown. So far I’m still alive. If you’re not getting any high e2 symptoms just carry on.

 

[vegvisir]

Just to provide an update to this if anyone is interested...

The scale is moving up and I'm seeing development in areas you'd expect. Also noticing psychological things like improved confidence and libido. I believe it took the 4/5/6 weeks of cyp to start seeing things happen. I also believe what I was running before that to be bunk.

I upped my calories by 400 calories and have gained some subcutaneous fat on the belly but I don't attribute the ~4kg total mass gain to just that.