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  1. NHS muppetry - need advice

    I think the issue was that I never had approval from an NHS endo to go on test (went private then my family/childhood GP just agreed to put on NHS when I moved back to hometown). I think with the endo having agreed to prescribe TRT in some format (admittedly a crap one) my GP felt less wary about continuing to provide.
  2. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Well, against my wildest expectations my GP has decided to just continue prescribing me Sustanon! I did not in a million years expect this as the endo was very clear that he doesn't recommend Sust and my doc had originally said he would follow endo's instructions. However, endo said it was ultimately up to me to decide with my doc, although it did seem like he was offering me limited choices (basically, taper it down over two years to get a natural reading, using either gels or Nebido every 14 weeks with no boosters/frontloading). I happened to speak with a different doc at my surgery who listened to me and seemed to understand my points. He eventually said "I'm just going to continue prescribing your current medication, but there's a small chance the trust may tell me it's not amongst the recommended treatments." Two prescriptions in and no problems so I'm thinking I may just be amongst the lucky few (touches wood).
  3. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Couldn’t agree more mate, I’ve already spoken to Dr Savage on email.
  4. NHS muppetry - need advice

    The problem was more that I’d be washing it off soon after application if I put it on before gym first thing in the morning. But if I waited and put in on later I’d have to do my morning sesh without having applied for 24 hours, by which time my energy levels had dropped.
  5. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Ok, so I've had the appt with the consultant. Could do with some opinions, although fairly sure I know how I feel. Lots to mention but will try and be concise. - He said 125mg per week is an 'extremely high dose' and when questioned said he would prescribe 250mg every 3-4 weeks usually. - Doesn't like Sustanon and prefers gels due to less peaks/troughs (a fair point). - I mentioned I'd tried gels and felt good but found them a pain - couldn't apply before bed as worried about transferring to my gf, couldn't put on first thing as go to gym before work (needs to be left on skin for hours). Ended up training before applying which meant was always struggling with energy/determination on squats etc. - Asked about Nebido and he said maybe but wouldn't be on 10 week intervals, would only allow every 14 weeks. - Biggest concern is that he wants to get another 'natural' reading despite already having had one before starting trt. He said he wouldn't stop me cold turkey but would wean me off on gels. He said it wouldn't take weeks/months but likely several years! - I'm 39 now and don't want to feel s**t for several more years after losing most of my 20s/30s and finally feeling good the last few years. Also, I worry he maybe just wants to get me natural again and cut me off totally. - I asked about BSSM guidelines and showed him the NHS guideline document saying 8-12 nmol should be considered for trial if symptoms present. He said something about all having their own assays. I'm not really convinced by this guy. He's a diabetes expert too and I wonder how many TRT patients he's actually treated before. He seemed very wary too. Said it was for me to discuss with my doctor, but doc has made it clear he'll do what this guy says. Felt a bit like pass the hot potato to me.
  6. It’s generally all about your levels. You’d likely be ok under 8nmol.
  7. I know a guy who got on the juice in his early 20s (was almost an Olympic swimmer) and totally tanked his endocrine system. He’s now on NHS TRT but I believe he played the “I was a foolish youth” card. I’ve also seen another similar case on another forum.
  8. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Thanks man, I'm getting back in touch with the Leger Clinic so I've got a backup. You're probs right about the boob job bit. I was just thinking of cases like that Josie Cunningham who got NHS implants to take her up to a DD so she could be a glamour model, but I'd imagine it's extremely rare hence the public outrage.
  9. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Thanks for the reply mate. I suppose what frustrates me too is the fact that people get treated for all manner of things on the NHS (cosmetic things like boob jobs etc) but losing the ability to have sex/feel good isn't seemingly enough in this case. On the other hand, I can see why they wouldn't want to open the floodgates on this as it could be very expensive if they started treating loads of guys, but I think it's hard to argue that low test isn't the problem. It's the lack of consistency that really gets me - reading NHS docs that tell me I'm deficient but then being told my levels are fine despite clear symptoms which resolve with administration of TRT.
  10. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Ok, so as an update I've received a letter from my new GP saying 'as expected, the endocrinology unit do not support the use of testosterone supplementation in this case, but they are happy to have a meeting to discuss this and will hence be sending across an appt date.' So, firstly, I'm wondering if it's even worth taking a day off work and losing £200 to have a meeting which will be unlikely to go anywhere. But I'm also keen to hear their reasoning. If they don't support the use of testosterone in this case then what treatment would they suggest for a low sex drive and ED caused by low testosterone? At one point, when I was training Thai boxing 4x a week, I had close to 10% bodyfat and was incredibly fit with a good diet and 8 hours sleep a night, so I don't think lifestyle factors were likely an issue. Also had all my bloods done and checks for thyroid, pituitary etc. What frustrates me is that I've got three NHS docs on my phone which state that 10-30 nmol is a healthy level, and when I was first told my levels were ok (before going to see Leger Clinic) I was only 0.3 nmol above the cutoff - I was at 9 and cutoff was 8.7. My main worries are affording treatment should I lose my job in these unstable times, or worst case scenario, accidentally killing somebody in my truck and going down for CD and not being able to get NHS treatment - a highly unlikely but possible scenario. I don't understand what their reasoning is. Am I supposed to just accept a life without sexual function despite their own documentation telling me I'm deficient and the fact I'm clearly showing symptoms (and have a diagnosis from one of the best in the UK)?
  11. NHS muppetry - need advice

    What's the quality like on the black market in general? I've bought a couple of vials from eroids sellers before and was decent.
  12. NHS muppetry - need advice

    My bloods have been pretty stable on sustanon the last few years so I could just self prescribe, but I may also go back to Leger as do like having somebody experienced overseeing it.
  13. Advice for Sustinon

    I'm on 125mg weekly and find this a good protocol. Doc said some patients split the dose. Sometimes I bump it up to 175mg but don't feel a whole lot of difference tbh. I started on Tostran gel and the rexommended starting dose had me at over 80nmol. My squats came on pretty fast in those few weeks lol.
  14. NHS muppetry - need advice

    Thanks guys, really appreciate the advice. It'd be an easier pill to swallow if I was conclusively outside of the NHS treatment range, but I've read a few NHS docs as stated above which put me in the treatable range - aside from the Barnsley PCT one I found another which had the healthy reference range as 10-30 nmol. What I'm not sure of is whether the NHS have a standard reference range now they're centralised, which would make it pointless asking for a second opinion - previously it depended on which doctor you saw from what I've read, and what the range used by that PCT was. Knowing I can be treated for £330 is comforting though. When I was with Leger they did my consultations over the phone due to the distance and didn't charge me (only paid for initial consultation and the sustanon). I had assumed it would usually be a fair bit more expensive. My new GPs reason for reviewing it was that according to him it can't be prescribed without the approval of a consultant endocrinologist and that Dr Savage was 'just a GP with an interest in TRT'.