winger

It's been time for a few years now. Big you dont have to show the mug, I understand.........

hackskii

I bet Big is modest.
Im sure he looks better on real life than he gives himself credit for.

When you get my age any good body of any age looks good (girls you fags)...

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

mb250

You never cycle the rep ranges???

I agree, injuries will prevent, but also occur if used repetitively at low reps. After all, its volume thats causes size growth - slightly different to training for strength gains. I know they're kind of hand in hand but i'd rather be growing than getting stronger.

I cycle similar, but i'll only spend a couple of weeks down at 3-5 reps, then back to 10-12 and build my way down (or up??) again.

Nice post
mb

winger

I dont really agree mate.

hackskii

Me neither, some of the biggest guys in the gym are by far the strongest.
Hmmmmmm

Or, some of the strongest guys in my gyms are the biggest.
Hmmmm

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

big

No, I wouldn't suggest cycling rep ranges particularly.

If you want to work in 3-5 reps and 10-12 reps, do them at the same time, within the same training cycle.

Louie Simmons has pointed out many times, that cycling rep ranges TENDS to cause a loss of strength within that rep range when you cycle it out of your training. He has seen this in literally hundreds of lifters and really knows his stuff here.

You may well rather be growing than getting stronger, but in order to grow, you will need to get stronger, bottom line.

Yes, the training I suggest uses low reps regularly (almost exclusively actually unless there's a specific reason why not) - but remember that MOST of the time you are using sub-maximal weights. IMO you are FAR less likely to get injured doing many sets of 80% of your max for triples with perfect form than you are trying to do one all-out higher-rep set to (or beyond) failure, knowing that your form is highly likely to be slipping on the last rep or two.

As for volume causing size gains - yes and no. The "size" most people see from volume training is often just a pump. I will concur that volume is important for optimal size gains... but you will see hundreds of guys in every gym in every country doing volume training and not getting any bigger. Why?... because they're not using progressive resistance and they're not feeding their bodies correctly. The guys who are adding weight to the bar each week, regardless of their training routine, are the guys who are getting both bigger and stronger. A nice way to do this (with the progressive resistance built in) IMO is a dual factor approach.

hackskii

Oh Bigness, you said a moutfull there.

I see many guys doing volume work and never grow.
I think they do it cuz they see others doing it.

One thing I do see in the gym is guys are afraid to load the bar up with weight, its like they lack Confediance.
My training partner is pretty new to the game and when I stand over him or others and tell them to do another they get maybe like 3 more reps than their max.
Just me standing over them with the confidence they have in the security that I will take the bar from them really motivates them to do another rep or more.

I dont know how many times I tell the guys to stop counting (within their breaths) and get a better footing to drive from how much this helps.

For some reason there are limiting factors involved and they almost always can be seen in the greener dudes in the gym.
Guess that is ok really as it takes time to get the mind and muscle connection going on.
Maybe it is a protection thing.


Great post Big, as usual.
I dont think there are many that have the insight as you on lifting.
I know I don't.
You are the first person I think of when I have problems in a routine.
For that......Cheers mate!!!!!!!!!
Your awesome..

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

winger

Well Princess has done it again.

Nice read Big!

big

Totally. There are three variables you can play with here:

* Volume
* Intensity
* Frequency

Most people can pick two of these, and have to keep the other in check. For instance, if you have a volume routine fairly frequently, you'd better back right off the intensity. If you have an intense routine with some volume, you'd better be doing it very infrequently... etc etc.

The problem comes when you get guys in the gym who want to try doing all three. This is what halts progress VERY quickly unless you are very genetically gifted. They want to do 20 sets each workout, 4 times a week, going to/beyond failure every set... most people just cannot do this and expect to progress.

hackskii

Most of them think more is better.
Stuart suggest less is better.

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

mb250

But surely as already pointed out somewhere on here, getting stronger isnt always a result of size increase of a muscle. More often than not its a nervous improvement, with size of inter-fibres increasing. Training purely for size, and therfore increasing the volume, encourages growth of whole fibres.

Simple - bodies react to stress. Make it lift heavy weights and it will get better at lifting heavy weights by increasing neuro pathways and sycronisation systems, in addition to stronger myosin and actin reactions. Make it need to hold more glycogen by exhausting muscles and the whole fibre needs to grow, the whole basis of hypertrophy training. Taking this further drop set, supersets etc work on this whole assumption of taking the volume above and beyond what the muscle can do.

Yeah sure you'll grow in the low reps, thats pretty obvious. To the same extent as 5-8 reps im unsure of - assuming all other variables remain constant.

And hyperplasia - has anyone got any proof it exists within human tissue? You might be within a very small number of people if it definitely does. The only real change i know of is type IIA fibres moving either towards either type I or type II B, which any form of high intensity training with reps below 12 will encourage.

I think the system is great - it works. Just believe perhaps rotating reps could benefit some people?

mb

hackskii

I think IGF-1 and HGH promote hyperplasia.
You are right, there is no evedence to support this in the natural athlete.

70% of your 1 rep max will work 90% of your muscle fibers slow and fast twitch.

__________________
Power over others is weakness disguised as strength.

Scott

big

If you are happy working in the 5-8, 8-12 or 12-20 rep range, and you are progressing and happy with progress, stay within that rep range by all means.

I have never said that getting stronger is a result of getting bigger, but rather the other way round... to get bigger, you need to get stronger.

crazycacti

here's another question...

if you use the 5x5 principle during the loading phase - would these all be working sets with the same weight or would the 5 include warm ups and weight acclimatisation sets with 1 working set at the end?

big

The 5x5 would be done with a set weight AFTER warm-ups in a cumulative fatigue manner. None of the sets will be to failure, and in your first week, you would probably be using something around a 10 rep max (if you were doing a single set) for a 5x5.

The idea is to overload with volume and bring yourself to the brink of overtraining. You can't do this with a single sub-maximal set.

The phased approach works as follows:
* Loading with volume
* Deloading
* Loading with intensity

The rebound effect you get from loading up with volume and then deloading (lots of guys in the gym who take a week off and then come back stronger are actually experiencing the rebound from over-reaching) is compounded by the effects of the intensity phase.

We look to do a LOT more volume than we can handle in the volume loading phase. A 5x5 would typically be done with somewhere between 70% (starting) and 80-85% (week 4) of your 1RM (obviously some people are better reppers than others, so the actual percentages will vary - a 100kg squatter will probably use a higher percentage of his max than a 300kg squatter).

So in the final week you are doing 50 reps in total (2 lots of 5x5) with 80-85% or so of your max for the squat workout alone. So if your max squat is 200kg, that's 8500kg being moved with that lift in a single week. The rebound from moving that sort of volume range for 3-4 weeks and then deloading gives some serious gains once you move into the intensity phase, particularly if you are eating correctly.

A prime example of this kind of loading and deloading is the smolov squat routine. The smolov routine is an eastern european dual factor routine renowned for putting 50-100lbs on people's squats within 3 months... if you can handle it