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Look what i found about Creatine.

21 posts in this topic

Posted

That explains why CEE did bugger all for me.

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Posted

mono is the only form of creatine i have found gives me a slight boost on stamina and strength

Lousy_Bastard likes this

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Posted

That explains why CEE did bugger all for me.

If it's a true test then that would explain it.

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Posted

mono is the only form of creatine i have found gives me a slight boost on stamina and strength

Me too but always makes my stomach feel iffy.

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Posted

mo mate plenty of fluid with it does the trick tho my mate has trouble in the morning taking it

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Posted

dougie black from Extreme has been saying this for years

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Posted

to be honest I found both forms to be pretty inefective...the claims that are made for creatine are ridiculous, maybe it works better on some people than others, I shan't bother with it again

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Posted

problem with all studys like this is that they are biased.

all the following could be bollox but im bored this afters so here goes....

assuming they put in equal amounts of the both the mono and thet CEE and used the creatine mono as the baseline for the study then i would expect there to be approx 75% of creatine measured from the CEE as it has a higher molecular weight than the mono (~196 for CEE versus ~150 for the mono)/

IMO a fixed mass of the two will always have less creatine in the CEE than the mono due to it being a heavier molecule.

what would be interesting and more (convincing for me) would be if they were to plot a graph of the amound of Creatine against time and compare it to a plot of absorption of the creatine against time.

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Posted

just goes to show how simplicity works well, why complicate an already very useful product to the point that its ineffective. same goes with anything i.e diet, steroid cycles and training

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Posted

Each product product was placed in 900 ml of Hydrochloric Acid and samples where drawn at 5, 30 and 120 minutes.

Test Results After 30 Minutes

* Only 73% of the initial CEE present was available from CE2.

* While the amount of CEE available from SAN’s CM2 Alpha was even lower at only 62%.

* In contrast, more than 99% of the Creatine remained available from the regular Creatine Monohydrate product.

Test Results After 120 Minutes

* 72% of the initial CEE was available from CE2.

* Only 11% available from San CM2 Alpha.

* In contrast, more than 99% of the creatine remained available from CM.

CEE is a load of **** but not because of anything that study says. That data comes from a study done by a company that sells creatine mono products and it was put out to trash the rivals.

Taking readings of creatine stability is stomach like acidic conditions after 30 and 90 mins is totally irrelevant... as creatine in either form leaves the stomach completely within 20 mins! They did take readings at 1mins and 5mins (more relevant times) but didn't publish them.

They also didn't factor in the fact that between the CEE products they tested there were different amounts of CEE degradation in each... suggesting that it was other ingredients in the products that influenced the effect. They didn't mention or investigate this as all they wanted to do was trash CEE.

Gotta be real careful with studies done by one supplement company on another supplment comapnies products!

Far better conducted studies showing CEE isn't as good as mono here -

Qualitative in vitro NMR analysis of creatine ethyl ester pronutrient in human plasma.

Giese MW, Lecher CS.

Marian College, Chemistry, 3200 Cold Spring Rd , Indianapolis 46222, United States. matthew.giese@comcast.net

There are a number of forms of creatine available that attempt to improve the solubility and permeability, with the anticipation this will result in an improved pharmacokinetic profile and ultimately an enhanced ergogenic response. Previous research has shown that the different salt forms can improve solubility resulting in slightly altered pharmacokinetic profiles, however specific data exploring the conversion of esterified derivatives to creatine is lacking. The purpose of this study was to examine the assertion that creatine ethyl ester undergoes enzymatic conversion to creatine in human tissues. The IN VITRO response of creatine ethyl ester to incubation in human plasma was examined by H-NMR analysis. Lyophilized human plasma was reconstituted in D2O and phosphate-buffered saline and 1.5 mg of the analyte was added. Following incubation at 37 degrees C for 4 h and subsequent protein precipitation, the supernatant was analyzed by NMR, utilizing the diagnostic chemical shift of the methylene signal to determine the species present in solution, I.E. creatine ethyl ester, creatine, or creatinine. Both creatine and creatinine were run in parallel as control experiments and each assay was run in triplicate. As expected both creatine and creatinine remained unchanged. However, conversion of creatine ethyl ester to creatine by the esterases in human plasma was not observed to any detectable extent and the only species detected after the incubation period was creatinine. While not a definitive characterization of the IN VIVO behavior, these results strongly warrant a complete IN VIVO pharmacokinetic analysis of creatine ethyl ester since it appears these "pronutrients" may actually provide large exogenous sources of pharmacologically inactive creatinine rather than ergogenic creatine.

The effects of creatine ethyl ester supplementation combined with heavy resistance training on body composition, muscle performance, and serum and muscle creatine levels

Abstract

Numerous creatine formulations have been developed primarily to maximize creatine absorption. Creatine ethyl ester is alleged to increase creatine bio-availability. This study examined how a seven-week supplementation regimen combined with resistance training affected body composition, muscle mass, muscle strength and power, serum and muscle creatine levels, and serum creatinine levels in 30 non-resistance-trained males. In a double-blind manner, participants were randomly assigned to a maltodextrose placebo (PLA), creatine monohydrate (CRT), or creatine ethyl ester (CEE) group. The supplements were orally ingested at a dose of 0.30 g/kg fat-free body mass (approximately 20 g/day) for five days followed by ingestion at 0.075 g/kg fat free mass (approximately 5 g/day) for 42 days. Results showed significantly higher serum creatine concentrations in PLA (p = 0.007) and CRT (p = 0.005) compared to CEE. Serum creatinine was greater in CEE compared to the PLA (p = 0.001) and CRT (p = 0.001) and increased at days 6, 27, and 48. Total muscle creatine content was significantly higher in CRT (p = 0.026) and CEE (p = 0.041) compared to PLA, with no differences between CRT and CEE. Significant changes over time were observed for body composition, body water, muscle strength and power variables, but no significant differences were observed between groups. In conclusion, when compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester was not as effective at increasing serum and muscle creatine levels or in improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power. Therefore, the improvements in these variables can most likely be attributed to the training protocol itself, rather than the supplementation regimen.

IanStu likes this

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Posted

In agrement with Dtlv74, the limiting factor on creatine absorption and effectiveness DOES NOT happen in the stomach, it happens at the cell wall. Whatever form you put in your mouth, it is still converted to the same stuff by the time it is in the blood and travelling to the muscle. The esther does not survive as far as the cell wall, so is no use. And as shown several times, attaching an esther does not improve intestinal transfer.

Stow

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Posted

how confusing!

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Posted

ive used both mono and cee. and cee works for me, im much stronger when i use cee. and i know many who are the same.

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Posted

ive used both mono and cee. and cee works for me, im much stronger when i use cee. and i know many who are the same.

x2

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Posted

I have a theory on CEE that the alchol ester gives a little 'high' when it's metabolised that for some people grants a little performance boost. Am not sure it's to do with superior delivery of creatine though as those studies fairly well rule that out.

Does anyone else feel a little 'kick' off it about 20 mins after taking?

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Posted

Not sure, ive heard people say they feel more aggresion :lol: maybe thats why LOL

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Posted

Not sure, ive heard people say they feel more aggresion :lol: maybe thats why LOL

It's funny but i really notice a little kick from it. Personally that doesn't relate to greater strength for me - if i take it one session and then not the next I don't get suddenly weaker (which would be a true sign that it increases strength and that it's not just psychological), but maybe that's what other people notice and react well to?

For cell volumising though i don't get the same fullness off it that I do with mono, definitely not. It does seem to work a bit, but not much.

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Posted

i literally feel much stronger on it. like atleast 10kg extra on most big lifts

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Posted

tried both and felt mono was the better for me personally

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Posted

ive used both mono and cee. and cee works for me, im much stronger when i use cee. and i know many who are the same.

x3

Just finished off a bag of mono. Was ok. Prefere CEE. Apart from the taste. Held alot of water with Mono, dont seem to hold much, if any with CEE which is handy when i have to make weight.

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