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amazighman

50 mg Clomid results just in.

26 posts in this topic

Hi guys.

Thank you all for support and sharing vital informations and experiences.

 

As you may know from my previous posts, i had a T levels as low as 7.9 nmol when i had my first blood test.

I was out on clomid 25mg a day and then tested to find out that my Testosterone levels are 13.5 nmol.

I was still feeling rubbish so my private specialist decided to up clomid dose to 50 mg that was 1.5 month ago.

I did blood test again only to find out that my Testosterone is in excess of 23 nmol and E2 is very good too.( Please see attachment)

Now issue is i feel rubbish, not energetic, low sex drive and no morning erections. Plus i gained 5 kg of weight even tho my diet is ok  mostly 1-2 meals a day.and i work 12 hours a day .i am completely out of shape as i store fat only around abdomen and bottom...

Could it be my thyroid under active?

Please help

 

 

1500301613537-1171274338.jpg

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Whats your diet, sleep and exercise like?

Also is your job high stress, do you have kids?

 

"diet is ok mostly" isnt great, if you can give specifics that would be good.

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20 minutes ago, Lifesizepenguin said:

Whats your diet, sleep and exercise like?

Also is your job high stress, do you have kids?

 

"diet is ok mostly" isnt great, if you can give specifics that would be good.

My wife cooks at home, fish meat and other homemade stuff...she pushes me to eat salads...i dont drink alcohol often, i stopped smoking years ago...

No kids. My wife is doing the best to keep me happy.

Job is okay.

I take zinc , vitamin D, calcium, folic acid every day.

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I sleep good.

I uses to go to gym before my low t symptoms worsened.

At work i do more than 10 miles worth of walking

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Sounds like mental issues mate - these are really common in scenarios like this.

You've convinced yourself (or through habit whilst having low t previously) that you're feeling like this - when in reality, your test levels are amazing now and physiology you are completely sound.

Start waking up expecting to feel great, be proactive, think positive and I'm sure it'll improve. Happened with me in a not too dissimilar scenario.

Or, you may read this and think that's all bollocks (as I did for a year), and you will continue searching for physiological answers that just aren't there. 

 

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What about my uneven fat distribution? This is a big issue for me.

No morning erections is also a problem.

Mental issues that what my old doc said, i was put on anti depressant and which made me worse.

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Could my E2 184 pmol L is on the high side therefore making me feel low in sex drive and energy?

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High e2 could cause those symptoms... I know that lots of clinics aim to get e2 between about 80-120pmol because this seems to work well for most men.

Lack of morning wood and odd fat distribution are not psychogenic by any stretch.

What's your calculated free t looking like? 

Decent response by doubling the clomid though... You're obviously not that sensitive to it,  maybe you're not primary after all too.

Defo get TSH,  fT4 and ft3 tested. 

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Hi mate,

I would probably try and bring your estrogen down. If you are storing fat around the mid section you should do your best to eliminate that as this will lead to an increased degree of test converting to estrogen.

You could get on a decent diet and work to eliminate that extra belly fat in an attempt to descrease estrogen in the long run but if you were looking for a short term fix then I would suggest introducing Aromasin to the mix at a low dose.

There are studies linked on here which show it can be useful in descreasing estro and increasing Test so really would be ideal in your situation (sorry I cba fetching them just now but there's a few good threads on here regarding the drugs uses). I doubt your doc is going to prescribe it for you but with a bit of digging it is easy to obtain online.

If you ran Aromasin at 6.25mg EOD or even 12.5 e3d, I would be interested to see how your results come back and how you feel after a few weeks. I would guess a lot better but I'd be keen to see what other people think given your present situation. All the best.

 

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10 minutes ago, charlysays said:

High e2 could cause those symptoms... I know that lots of clinics aim to get e2 between about 80-120pmol because this seems to work well for most men.

Lack of morning wood and odd fat distribution are not psychogenic by any stretch.

What's your calculated free t looking like? 

Decent response by doubling the clomid though... You're obviously not that sensitive to it,  maybe you're not primary after all too.

Defo get TSH,  fT4 and ft3 tested. 

Hello.

I have not got calculated free T .

I will contact my private specialist to see if i can get aromatase inhibitors.

 

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2 hours ago, amazighman said:

What about my uneven fat distribution? This is a big issue for me.

No morning erections is also a problem.

Mental issues that what my old doc said, i was put on anti depressant and which made me worse.

Fat distribution like that is perfectly normal, I carry it around my back and abdomen, it's called genetics and some carry it all over, some it groups up on legs, others glutes, some on the stomach, it's simple your a bit fat, cut and you'll lose it, there are areas where it goes last, in your case it's your abdomen and bottom, get lean and it'll go or stop stressing about it... it's only a big issue because you make it one

Also two meals a day isn't a very good diet especially if they are salad/perceived healthy foods i.e. Low calorie, your cortisol will be through the floor on minimal calories and that can stagnate fat loss, but I'm no expert on it, it could be thyroid related but that would need more bloods, it sounds like your clutching and should maybe ask your doctor about your issues??

as for morning wood, your e2 is a touch high, maybe drop back to the previous dose of clomid if morning wood was forthcoming, its about a balance... again talk to your doctor??

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5 minutes ago, Leetflex said:

Does anyone actually know wtf they are talking about here? HE IS TAKING CLOMID. Clomid itself acts as an estrogen  to the brain. It doesn't matter how balanced his e2 is. .. The 50mg of fking clomid in his blood is acting as an estrogen to his brain...This is why hardly anyone recommends it as TRT......

Was about to highlight this also. It baffles me that people consider it as a long term option.

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16 hours ago, amazighman said:

What about my uneven fat distribution? This is a big issue for me.

No morning erections is also a problem.

Mental issues that what my old doc said, i was put on anti depressant and which made me worse.

uneven fat distribution is partly genetic, and partly because you actually need to get to a low bodyfat level before your fat "redistributes".

You wont magically get in shape.

 

however I have heard that people who take clomid for TRT sometimes still have the same issues, maybe it would be a better option (god knows its better for your health) to just switch to test or (more rarely) HCG and eliminate the other possibilites.

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3 hours ago, Leetflex said:

Does anyone actually know wtf they are talking about here? HE IS TAKING CLOMID. Clomid itself acts as like an estrogen  to the brain. It doesn't matter how balanced his e2 is. .. The 50mg of fking clomid in his blood is acting as like an estrogen to his brain...This is why hardly anyone recommends it as TRT......

yep afaik clomid is half estrogen, half something else.. i would ignore all estrogen blood tests when taking clomid

a lot of men dont feel good when taking clomid, even when they have test levels at top of the range, its almost like a false reading

Clomid can raise SHBG too

edit : dr john crisler from america, who is a big guy on trt suggests 12.5mg of clomid EOD rather than full dose and he says works just aswell... also try some calcium d gluconate for estrogen clearance

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I will soon get a script for Anastrozole and try that for 1 month and see.

I will have to focus on losing weight too...tho i am not obese or overweight at all.

I dont think jumping into TRT straight away is a good option for new but for sure TRT is my destiny in foreseeable future.

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7 hours ago, Leetflex said:

Does anyone actually know wtf they are talking about here? HE IS TAKING CLOMID. Clomid itself acts as like an estrogen  to the brain. It doesn't matter how balanced his e2 is. .. The 50mg of fking clomid in his blood is acting like an estrogen to his brain...This is why hardly anyone recommends it as TRT......

I thought this was common knowledge with clomid. That's why those who prescribe it tell you it has a 50-70% chance of working. There is a lot of variability amongst individuals as to what side effects they get from clomid probably due to varying distributions of receptors. At 50mg ED the OP is at a fair risk of the side effects nullifying the benefits of the increased testosterone though for sure.

This study found that it does work as intended a lot of the time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663

 

 

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7 hours ago, Quackerz said:

Was about to highlight this also. It baffles me that people consider it as a long term option.

If you're in your 20s, not primary, want to stay fertile, don't want to have injections for the rest of your life and it improves your symptoms it's worth a go for 6-12 months to see if a reset is possible surely.

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2 minutes ago, charlysays said:

I thought this was common knowledge with clomid. That's why those who prescribe it tell you it has a 50-70% chance of working. There is a lot of variability amongst individuals as to what side effects they get from clomid probably due to varying distributions of receptors. At 50mg ED the OP is at a fair risk of the side effects nullifying the benefits of the increased testosterone though for sure.

This study found that it does work as intended a lot of the time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22044663

 

 

Sorry for asking but what OP means?

I am currently on 50 mg ED clomid, ny LH is at 9 iu and my Testosterone is 23 nmol, when i was on 25 mg my LH was at 10 nmol but my Testosterone was 13.5 nmol.

I currently dont experience any side affects or issues...apart from high E2.

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1 minute ago, amazighman said:

Sorry for asking but what OP means?

I am currently on 50 mg ED clomid, ny LH is at 9 iu and my Testosterone is 23 nmol, when i was on 25 mg my LH was at 10 nmol but my Testosterone was 13.5 nmol.

I currently dont experience any side affects or issues...apart from high E2.

Just saying that 50mg ED is a problematic dose for a fair amount of people. I think Dr Rinse experienced issues at 50mg ED. If you look at the research noone discontinued clomid with doses of 12,5mg ED and very few at 25mg ED but a few did at 50mg ED.

At higher doses clomid can produce side effects similar to the original symptoms of low testosterone, so you don't feel the benefit of the extra testosterone.

For you it could be the E2 which is a bit high range, SHBG could have been pushed up and is then binding up the extra testosterone or the mysterious/poorly understood side effects due to the actual clomid in the blood.

What your saying about LH having actually dropped when going up to 50mg dose but testosterone risking significantly is very interesting, no idea whats going on there- endogenous testosterone levels should be closely linked with LH levels.

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8 minutes ago, charlysays said:

Just saying that 50mg ED is a problematic dose for a fair amount of people. I think Dr Rinse experienced issues at 50mg ED. If you look at the research noone discontinued clomid with doses of 12,5mg ED and very few at 25mg ED but a few did at 50mg ED.

At higher doses clomid can produce side effects similar to the original symptoms of low testosterone, so you don't feel the benefit of the extra testosterone.

For you it could be the E2 which is a bit high range, SHBG could have been pushed up and is then binding up the extra testosterone or the mysterious/poorly understood side effects due to the actual clomid in the blood.

What your saying about LH having actually dropped when going up to 50mg dose but testosterone risking significantly is very interesting, no idea whats going on there- endogenous testosterone levels should be closely linked with LH levels.

Attached my blood test before 50 mg clomid.

I may revert back to 25 mg ED to see if any improvement although my specialist thinks it is fine to stay on 50 mg for a year or so and then see if clomid would leave a permanent high T levels.

If i compare clomid to antidepressants which i took for a year i should say clomid has less side effects.

 

 

 

 

IMG20170528201931.jpg

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12 minutes ago, amazighman said:

Attached my blood test before 50 mg clomid.

I may revert back to 25 mg ED to see if any improvement although my specialist thinks it is fine to stay on 50 mg for a year or so and then see if clomid would leave a permanent high T levels.

If i compare clomid to antidepressants which i took for a year i should say clomid has less side effects.

 

 

 

 

IMG20170528201931.jpg

The fact testosterone went up by 10nmol but LH went down by 1iu/L does seem to point to 25mg ED turning out to be a decent dose for you. Unless this is another bizarre side effect of clomid- raising testosterone by other means than just increasing LH. It's odd that it took so long to work though. Did anything else change in your life... painkillers, sleep, diet, antidepressants etc- I wonder if something was suppressing your response to the 25mg ED clomid dose. Or it could just be a lab anomaly. But 10n/mol is a fair size anomaly!

See how you go bringing E2 down. Testosterone will go up a little but more with a drop in aromatisation.

The prospect of a long term gain in testosterone after a drawn out clomid restart is the bucket of gold at the rainbow for me too. I've read it's unlikely but possible. It may be more likely for me if I can find out why my prolactin is always elevated. Getting that nicely mid range or lower should allow more LH.

Second that on clomid probably being preferable to being on ADs. I've never tried them as I always had low depressive scores but my dad was on citalopram for 10 yrs and he didn't function well on it and had horrible semi long term withdrawal side effects including electric shocks down his neck etc.

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11 hours ago, charlysays said:

If you're in your 20s, not primary, want to stay fertile, don't want to have injections for the rest of your life and it improves your symptoms it's worth a go for 6-12 months to see if a reset is possible surely.

You only get one life mate, times precious. Personally I wouldn't waste the time. HCG and mesterolone alongside test should be plenty sufficient IMO to maintain testicular and spermatogenesical function.

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3 hours ago, Quackerz said:

You only get one life mate, times precious. Personally I wouldn't waste the time. HCG and mesterolone alongside test should be plenty sufficient IMO to maintain testicular and spermatogenesical function.

Cheers for the info... 

I agree but cost is a factor, clomid has been shown to work best with young men so it's gotta be worth a go. There is a lifetime of injections otherwise. 

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12 minutes ago, charlysays said:

Cheers for the info... 

I agree but cost is a factor, clomid has been shown to work best with young men so it's gotta be worth a go. There is a lifetime of injections otherwise. 

I guess that's something I never factor in as injections don't really bother me, I can see that they do bother some though. Then there is travel and life commitments etc Personally I have weighed it all and just see it as the better option, for me at least.  

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