swole troll

PCT... It's not that difficult

131 posts in this topic

@swole troll hello! i would like if possible to answer me  a question about tamoxifen and hcg...okay we use hcg witch is LH to give signals to our testis to work , using tamoxifen alone hcg will only help for e2 control or tamoxifen still will stimulate lh and fsh from our pituary gland? 

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55 minutes ago, Relar said:

@swole troll hello! i would like if possible to answer me  a question about tamoxifen and hcg...okay we use hcg witch is LH to give signals to our testis to work , using tamoxifen alone hcg will only help for e2 control or tamoxifen still will stimulate lh and fsh from our pituary gland? 

Tamoxifen does nothing for e2 control it's is a serm that binds to the breast site preventing oestrogen from getting to the receptor and causing glandular growth (gynecomastia)

It works in a similar way to clomiphene in stimulating gonadotropin signal's only to a lesser extent 

Tamoxifen is the most expendable compound of pct although still a worthy aspect imo

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1 hour ago, swole troll said:

Tamoxifen does nothing for e2 control it's is a serm that binds to the breast site preventing oestrogen from getting to the receptor and causing glandular growth (gynecomastia)

It works in a similar way to clomiphene in stimulating gonadotropin signal's only to a lesser extent 

Tamoxifen is the most expendable compound of pct although still a worthy aspect imo

@swole troll thank you for your respond! i deff lack of english cause cant concieve it 100% , for what i get from everything i read here there is no need to use it with hcg but only if you going to get gyno to prevent it..right? and the most suitable way to use everything in pct is hcg something like 1500iu eod for 9 shot with AI to control E2 and after that 3 days from last hcg shot start with clomiphene and nolvadex(at doses you suggest) to start pituary gland working again?also you keep AI and taper it at the end of clomiphene and tamoxifen, this will last about 9 weeks...sorry for being so detailed but i respect you and your knowledge and want to learn as much as i can. thanks in advance!

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2 hours ago, Relar said:

@swole troll thank you for your respond! i deff lack of english cause cant concieve it 100% , for what i get from everything i read here there is no need to use it with hcg but only if you going to get gyno to prevent it..right? and the most suitable way to use everything in pct is hcg something like 1500iu eod for 9 shot with AI to control E2 and after that 3 days from last hcg shot start with clomiphene and nolvadex(at doses you suggest) to start pituary gland working again?also you keep AI and taper it at the end of clomiphene and tamoxifen, this will last about 9 weeks...sorry for being so detailed but i respect you and your knowledge and want to learn as much as i can. thanks in advance!

sounds like you're writing your own pct mate

my views on an optimal PCT is at the start of this thread

refer back to previous pages if youre unsure, a lot of the questions have already been answered 

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5 hours ago, swole troll said:

sounds like you're writing your own pct mate

my views on an optimal PCT is at the start of this thread

refer back to previous pages if youre unsure, a lot of the questions have already been answered 

no no its not a pct for me!! i am trying to get how it works without using hcg during cycle..i ve read everything in this post many times and i came to this conclusion i post before...i just want to see if i get it right

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@swole troll can you go over the logic behind your pct aromasin dosage?  Ie if you were keeping E2 in range on cycle with 12.5mg eod, why would you then need 25mg ed when you come off and the test clears from your body?  Or is it a case of purposely driving it as low as possible to help recover HPTA function quicker as any E2 is suppressive?

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2 hours ago, Sphinkter said:

@swole troll can you go over the logic behind your pct aromasin dosage?  Ie if you were keeping E2 in range on cycle with 12.5mg eod, why would you then need 25mg ed when you come off and the test clears from your body?  Or is it a case of purposely driving it as low as possible to help recover HPTA function quicker as any E2 is suppressive?

Oestrogen control is vital during pct 

The hypothalamus will not signal the pituitary to send out lh and fsh until oestrogen is within range 

Elevated testosterone, oestrogen and progesterone will inhibit this function 

Part of the reason we implement a serm is to cut off that negative feedback from circulating oestrogen which tricks the hypothalamus into thinking that oestrogen is also low and as a result kicks out the signal for the pituitary to start sending gonadtropin signals 

By lowering e2 with an aromatase inhibitor you prevent a spike in E2 as you come off arimidex (the ai I reccomend for a first cycle) as well as keeping E2 low enough to trick the hypothalamus into starting up as test, oest and progesterone are all below range 

Also as hormones fluctuate when going from exogenous to endogenous you do get ratios that can cause sides such as high oestrogen and of course low testosterone 

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9 minutes ago, swole troll said:

Oestrogen control is vital during pct 

The hypothalamus will not signal the pituitary to send out lh and fsh until oestrogen is within range 

Elevated testosterone, oestrogen and progesterone will inhibit this function 

Part of the reason we implement a serm is to cut off that negative feedback from circulating oestrogen which tricks the hypothalamus into thinking that oestrogen is also low and as a result kicks out the signal for the pituitary to start sending gonadtropin signals 

By lowering e2 with an aromatase inhibitor you prevent a spike in E2 as you come off arimidex (the ai I reccomend for a first cycle) as well as keeping E2 low enough to trick the hypothalamus into starting up as test, oest and progesterone are all below range 

Also as hormones fluctuate when going from exogenous to endogenous you do get ratios that can cause sides such as high oestrogen and of course low testosterone 

Yeh I get why you use an AI during pct just not the dosage of aromasin.  Was this because you recommended adex while on cycle then as you come off the adex and switch to aromasin for pct you need a higher dose to combat the rebound?

so if you were using aromasin through your cycle would increasing the dose when you come off not just crash your e2 and leave you feeling shitty?

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9 minutes ago, Sphinkter said:

Yeh I get why you use an AI during pct just not the dosage of aromasin.  Was this because you recommended adex while on cycle then as you come off the adex and switch to aromasin for pct you need a higher dose to combat the rebound?

so if you were using aromasin through your cycle would increasing the dose when you come off not just crash your e2 and leave you feeling shitty?

If you are using aromasin on cycle then yes just continue with your required dose

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I can't pull up the details as I'm on my phone but if you Google aromasin effect on igf, shbg and test you will also see why aromasin usage particularly Is prudent during pct 

 

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@swole troll

Need a bit of advice mate regarding timing of PCT.

My last shot of Omnadren was on December 18th, my last shots of trenbolone acetate and trestolone acetate were today, December 31st. When should I start using clomid and tamoxifen? Both on January 8th or before?

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2 minutes ago, Goranchero said:

@swole troll

Need a bit of advice mate regarding timing of PCT.

My last shot of Omnadren was on December 18th, my last shots of trenbolone acetate and trestolone acetate were today, December 31st. When should I start using clomid and tamoxifen? Both on January 8th or before?

start it 9th of Jan

thats a monday so easy to fill your dossette from that day 

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11 minutes ago, swole troll said:

start it 9th of Jan

thats a monday so easy to fill your dossette from that day 

Thanks for a quick reply mate!

All the best in 2017!

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17 minutes ago, swole troll said:

no worries matey, hope you have a smooth recovery :thumb

Almost forgot something... I'm currently on 50mg T3 as well, should I discontinue it immediately or use it up to begining of PCT?

Also, Clenbuterol. I'm cycling it, 40mg EG, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Next break is Jan 2- Jan 15. Should I continue using it later during PCT (Jan 16 - Jan 29) or better to discontinue alltogether until end of PCT?

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30 minutes ago, Goranchero said:

Almost forgot something... I'm currently on 50mg T3 as well, should I discontinue it immediately or use it up to begining of PCT?

Also, Clenbuterol. I'm cycling it, 40mg EG, 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Next break is Jan 2- Jan 15. Should I continue using it later during PCT (Jan 16 - Jan 29) or better to discontinue alltogether until end of PCT?

id be looking to ditch the T3 ASAP to try and get your thyroid back up to full function prior to PCT where cortisol levels rise and test drops making a perfect environment for weight gain

you dont want to cut during PCT as it will strip muscle off you under the above conditions, equally a bulk makes you tend to hold a lot of fat and just retain muscle at best 

i personally use to aim for maintenance but decomposition was still inevitable 

clen has some anabolic / muscle sparing properties so definitely run that for PCT

id ditch it now and run it for 3-4 weeks of PCT but not to cut, you still want your weight to stay exactly the same 

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On 17/08/2015 at 11:21 AM, swole troll said:

Clomid 100/100/100/50/50                                        5 weeks total

Nolva   40/20/20/20/20/20/20                                         7 weeks total

Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5/  followed by 12.5 EOD       5 weeks total

Sorry to sound dumb but Should nolvadex and clomid be run together or separate?

 

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3 hours ago, popeye1982 said:

Sorry to sound dumb but Should nolvadex and clomid be run together or separate?

 

Concurrent usage

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Hi, I am starting a test/dbol cycle shortly and the stuff is on its way. I have always been told with pct its just the the nolva,clomid etc after your cycle. I am taking arimidex ED, but do I really need to take the hcg through the course of the cycle.

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^^

aman1990. Your post makes it evident that you have done little research. I strongly suggest you educate yourself somewhat before you embark on any steroid usage. 

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On 17/08/2015 at 11:21 AM, swole troll said:

you then run

Clomid 100/100/100/50/50                                        5 weeks total

Nolva   40/20/20/20/20/20/20                                         7 weeks total

Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5/  followed by 12.5 EOD       5 weeks total


 

Hi swole, thanks for these posts - great information. I plan on running my first cycle soon and want to follow your cycle by the letter. Only problem being that I can't get hold of Aromasin. Can I substitute with Arimidex? If so, in what quantities? 

 

Thanks 

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57 minutes ago, Sfan44 said:

Hi swole, thanks for these posts - great information. I plan on running my first cycle soon and want to follow your cycle by the letter. Only problem being that I can't get hold of Aromasin. Can I substitute with Arimidex? If so, in what quantities? 

 

Thanks 

Yes it's fine 

Aromasin to arimidex roughly converts tab to tab 

So 25mg / 1mg aromasin / arimidex 

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@swole troll I have always tapered off Arimidex before starting clomid and Nolva. Would you say that my recovery is likely to be easier if I carry on with the arimidex all the way through PCT? The sound of doing that makes me worry that my estrogen might crash? Do you advise to use smaller doses of adex compared to what you used on cycle? 

Thanks

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12 minutes ago, Jamming said:

@swole troll I have always tapered off Arimidex before starting clomid and Nolva. Would you say that my recovery is likely to be easier if I carry on with the arimidex all the way through PCT? The sound of doing that makes me worry that my estrogen might crash? Do you advise to use smaller doses of adex compared to what you used on cycle? 

Thanks

Yes I always advise an ai during pct 

Taper off the ai the week before you stop nolva (unless using aromasin)

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