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Nebido vs Sustanon 250 for TRT

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Posted

What would you go with if money was not an issue? You could pin Sustanon 250 yourself. Which one starts to work sooner?

I'm probably going to end up on TRT (prescribed) and want to know which drug to aim for. If I wouldn't get to pin Sus myself and no sooner than every 2-3 weeks, then I'm guessing Nebido would be better for more stable levels.

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Posted

If it was me, nebido from what I've read and heard from members on TRT

With sust there seems to be too much fluctuation

[MENTION=69160]pugster[/MENTION] is pretty clued up on this, I've tagged him so he may drop in here and give a better explanation

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Posted

personally i'd give nebido a go if given the chance , most endos/uros start ppl on gels , if unsuitable they switch to shots, you usually wont be given much of a choice the endo/uro will either use test-e /sust or nebido -depending on which part of the country you live in , short esters are being phased out slowly across the country afaik so eventually everyone will be taking nebido - as far as the endos are concerned it already been proven superior to short esters ,nebido is not a new drug there are studies going back over 8 yrs now regarding its use.

remember tho its a very long ester and takes 4/6 shots to get a stable level to work from (these can be 8-12 apart so fine tuning takes some time)

at the end of the day it comes down to how many times you want to jab yourself in the **** , there are those that say short esters are better (nebido is not licienced in the US they only use short esters ) ,in the U.S the use of HCG + AI's is comon place tho you wont get them here with TRT.

from what ive seen /read the ppl who usually moan about nebido arent taking it /cant get it , ppl who say short esters cause less problems should go read the steriod.com forums - a U.S based site with a TRT section where every other post is asking for help controlling E2 , they shoulds also look at the spikey shot graphs of short esters compared to a long ester.

tho as with any medication some ppl arent suited to it and do fair better on shorter esters (or cant/dont want to wait out the time it takes to tune the nebido)

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Posted

Okay, so hopefully Nebido it is. I wont accept gels. I'll pick another doctor if I have to but something tells me I've found the right one. I'll know for sure in 3 days.

Too bad Nebido takes so long to start working. I've heard people start feeling it after the second shot (booster). I wonder if the process can be sped up by using both Sus and Nebido? Sustanol only in the beginning to jack up the levels.

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Posted

you will be lucky to choose which one, most likely you will get nebido as sustanon is getting phased out in this country

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Posted (edited)

like myself and jake said, you dont get to choose very often , you will be started on gels and moved if they are causing problems for you or not working well , some ppl feel alot better after the 6 week booster others it takes alot longer , the minute you show any/too much AAS knowledge (and have a good physique ) you will be flagged as an AAS abuser and your chances of getting injections will drop even more (this of course depends on the individual consultant).

*i take it you have already seen an endo and been diagnosed with either primary or secondary hypogonadism, if not and you think you can just walk into a docs and get tests shots you are gonna be in for a shock :) , if you did t would also mean the GP had no clue what he was doing without even investigating the cause first.

Edited by pugster

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Posted

like myself and jake said, you dont get to choose very often , you will be started on gels and moved if they are causing problems for you or not working well , some ppl feel alot better after the 6 week booster others it takes alot longer , the minute you show any/too much AAS knowledge (and have a good physique ) you will be flagged as an AAS abuser and your chances of getting injections will drop even more (this of course depends on the individual consultant).

*i take it you have already seen an endo and been diagnosed with either primary or secondary hypogonadism, if not and you think you can just walk into a docs and get tests shots you are gonna be in for a shock :) , if you did t would also mean the GP had no clue what he was doing without even investigating the cause first.

Haven't been diagnosed yet, but I have proof my test has been below the minimum level for years. If he tells me to take my shirt off I'm pretty sure he'd think I've used AAS before. Even though I haven't. People on this board didn't believe me either. Would it even make a difference to the doc? What, he's not gonna treat me because I did this to myself? It shouldn't make a difference.

I'll take my previous blood tests and a list of symptoms I have with me and tell him I can't take it anymore. I should at least get a trial treatment. Giving gel to someone with 7 nmol/l test at 23 y/o would be silly and impractical. I usually have a way with doctors and hopefully this time won't be different.

Would it be wise to mention suicidal thoughts?

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Posted

why would giving gel to someone with 7n/mol be silly and impractical ? theres ppl using gel with lower levels than yours that are happy with the treatment , the tests you have already had done will not be any use other than a reference, any endo you get sent to will want to see at least 2 blood tests they themselves have ordered - they generally dont care where or how you got them done before.

as i said if you get offered anything right away then then GP/endo is not following protocol , why would they give you anything without a diagnosis from an endo/uro ?

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Posted

I don't think anyone wants to use a gel every single day. It's like playing dice with your hormones as far as dosing goes. I couldn't imagine a less reliable long term solution. For someone who trains almost everyday and takes showers twice a day it obviously wouldn't work.

I'm not expecting to get a test shot on the first day, but possibly after the first set of blood tests. If it's a good doc the symptoms alone should be enough even if test is back in the normal range.

We'll see I guess. I'll report back in a few days.

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Posted

its very rare a GP will give you anything without an official diagnosis and if they do they are not doing there job correctly (why wouldnt you want an official diagnosis ? it could have many causes from primary hypogonadism to a prolactinoma or other endocrine disorder) , they will refer you to an endo, on the NHS i waited 4 months for an appointment , you may be more lucky.

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Posted

You will be seen within 12 weeks of a GP refferal in my case.

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Posted (edited)

its very rare a GP will give you anything without an official diagnosis and if they do they are not doing there job correctly (why wouldnt you want an official diagnosis ? it could have many causes from primary hypogonadism to a prolactinoma or other endocrine disorder) , they will refer you to an endo, on the NHS i waited 4 months for an appointment , you may be more lucky.

I'm seeing an endo not a GP on the 4th. Already have a second appointment with another endo shortly after that just in case.

EDIT: Guys I forgot to mention that I'm not from the UK. I'm in another small European country that I'd rather not mention for privacy reasons. If I do get diagnosed with hypogonadism I'll get free treatment and drugs.

Edited by iamyou

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Posted (edited)

I'll take my previous blood tests and a list of symptoms I have with me and tell him I can't take it anymore. I should at least get a trial treatment. Giving gel to someone with 7 nmol/l test at 23 y/o would be silly and impractical. I usually have a way with doctors and hopefully this time won't be different.

Would it be wise to mention suicidal thoughts?

You usually have a way with doctors? what are you talking about? how often do you see doctors and why do you have to have a way with dealing with them? are you getting something ....

suicidal thoughts? are you saying that you making this up and you should mention it in order to get your script? or do you have suicidal thoughts? If so, you may be asked to see a psychologist/psychiatrist.

if you are the same iamyou as last time, then the two pictures you posted of yourself will almost CERTAINLY lead the doctor to conclude that you don't need any hormone replacement therapy. the second pic you put up clearly showed a very lean, very muscular man.

you aren't telling people here the entire story as something isn't right about this.

as someone said " nothing is sacred" on the internet: you are asking people to believe that you are telling the entire truth but in reality, you don't have to right to believe that we MUST believe you.

You look great . and the second pic shows someone who is even in better shape. you wrote that you train and diet non stop and this is a primary focus of your life as you have not many friends and zero social life.

it will be next to impossible to get a doctor to believe that you need AAS. you will have to play up your emotional & psychological issues to an extreme level. talk about how extremely tired you are, all you want to do is lay around all day or whatever, no energy, no sex drive, depression and whatever else.

if any of this is true, nebido is the way to go , with frequent blood work being done in the beginning so that a decent level is maintained.

Edited by dominimo

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Posted

I have been on sustanon for the last 2 years it works straight away i have just switched to nebido due to availability issues these are my typical blood results when on sustanon

the results so SUSTANON 250 1ml every 2 weeks 3rd day after injection TEST 27.7 nmol/l (10-37) SHBG 27 (11-71) FSH 0.6 (1-11) LH 0.1 (1-8) ESTROGEN 200 (22-162)

Then results on the 14th day just before next injection TEST 11.8 nmol/l (11-37) SHBG 28 (11-71) FSH 0.3 (1-11) LH 0.1 (1-8) ESTROGEN 98 (22-162)

Just switched to nebido i have had one shot and these are my blood results one week later

testoterone 45.9nmol/l (10.0-37.0) shbg 29(11-71) FSH 0.3(1.0-11.0) LH 0.1 (1.0-8.0) estrogen 186 (20-160)

As for people saying it takes a few injections for it to start working is rubbish as i feel the effects of nebido after a week but maybe what they mean is for blood levels to stabilise after a few injectionscould be true, im going to monitor mine .

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Posted

I have been on sustanon for the last 2 years it works straight away i have just switched to nebido due to availability issues these are my typical blood results when on sustanon .

the results so SUSTANON 250 1ml every 2 weeks 3rd day after injection TEST 27.7 nmol/l (10-37) SHBG 27 (11-71) FSH 0.6 (1-11) LH 0.1 (1-8) ESTROGEN 200 (22-162)

Then results on the 14th day just before next injection TEST 11.8 nmol/l (11-37) SHBG 28 (11-71) FSH 0.3 (1-11) LH 0.1 (1-8) ESTROGEN 98 (22-162)

Just switched to nebido i have had one shot and these are my blood results one week later

testoterone 45.9nmol/l (10.0-37.0) shbg 29(11-71) FSH 0.3(1.0-11.0) LH 0.1 (1.0-8.0) estrogen 186 (20-160)

As for people saying it takes a few injections for it to start working is rubbish as i feel the effects of nebido after a week but maybe what they mean is for blood levels to stabilise after a few injectionscould be true, im going to monitor mine .

Since you have been at 27. as well as 45.9, you are a good candidate to have a good answer for my question:

DId you notice a substantial difference in mood, strength, cognitive ability ( the brain fog ) between those two different levels of testo? I am not dismissing the different levels of estrogen. but will exclude it for now.

I am more interested in knowing if you like the higher testo levels of that 45.9 as opposed to the 27.7? any difference in sides or whatever else?

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Posted (edited)

I have been on sustanon for the last 2 years it works straight away i have just switched to nebido due to availability issues these are my typical blood results when on sustanon

the results so SUSTANON 250 1ml every 2 weeks 3rd day after injection TEST 27.7 nmol/l (10-37) SHBG 27 (11-71) FSH 0.6 (1-11) LH 0.1 (1-8) ESTROGEN 200 (22-162)

Then results on the 14th day just before next injection TEST 11.8 nmol/l (11-37) SHBG 28 (11-71) FSH 0.3 (1-11) LH 0.1 (1-8) ESTROGEN 98 (22-162)

Just switched to nebido i have had one shot and these are my blood results one week later

testoterone 45.9nmol/l (10.0-37.0) shbg 29(11-71) FSH 0.3(1.0-11.0) LH 0.1 (1.0-8.0) estrogen 186 (20-160)

As for people saying it takes a few injections for it to start working is rubbish as i feel the effects of nebido after a week but maybe what they mean is for blood levels to stabilise after a few injectionscould be true, im going to monitor mine .

no one in this thread has said it takes a few injections to start working......

what has been said by myself in this thread and by many others taking nebido is that it takes multiple shots to get a stable level to work from (tho i guess you could call that start working correctly )

there are a few factors as to why this is , inc the long release time of nebido and its cumulative effects , the fact that when someone takes any external testosterone for the first time they have there original level + the external level until shutdown occurs , plus the fact everyone uses/aromatises at different rates.

Edited by pugster

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Posted

Since you have been at 27. as well as 45.9, you are a good candidate to have a good answer for my question:

DId you notice a substantial difference in mood, strength, cognitive ability ( the brain fog ) between those two different levels of testo? I am not dismissing the different levels of estrogen. but will exclude it for now.

I am more interested in knowing if you like the higher testo levels of that 45.9 as opposed to the 27.7? any difference in sides or whatever else?

It was 2 weeks ago that i mad my switch from sustanon to nebido and i had my bloods drawn last week so its only a week that i have been at 45.9 , before the switch i had to wait a few weeks for the sustanon to leave my system as my endo wanted a true reading of my bloods , so to be fair my test was low for the last few weeks so yes im feeling the errects of the nebido quite a lot mood elevation , more energy .

i cant really compare as to when i was at 27 probably feels the same, only side effects i suffer when my test is high is a red face , this is a reason for switching to nebido to try avoid the spikes that the sustanon gives due to the different esters, im going to have another blood test in 6 weeks to see wehere my levels are on this nebido .

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Posted

no one in this thread has said it takes a few injections to start working......

what has been said by myself in this thread and by many others taking nebido is that it takes multiple shots to get a stable level to work from (tho i guess you could call that start working correctly )

there are a few factors as to why this is , inc the long release time of nebido and its cumulative effects , the fact that when someone takes any external testosterone for the first time they have there original level + the external level until shutdown occurs , plus the fact everyone uses/aromatises at different rates.

yes thats what i said in my post that what they mean by it working is for levels to stabilise

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Posted

You usually have a way with doctors? what are you talking about? how often do you see doctors and why do you have to have a way with dealing with them? are you getting something ....

suicidal thoughts? are you saying that you making this up and you should mention it in order to get your script? or do you have suicidal thoughts? If so, you may be asked to see a psychologist/psychiatrist.

if you are the same iamyou as last time, then the two pictures you posted of yourself will CERTAINLY lead the doctor to conclude that you don't need any hormone replacement therapy. the second pic you put up clearly showed a very lean, very muscular man.

you aren't telling people here the entire story as something isn't right about this.

as someone said " nothing is sacred" on the internet: you are asking people to believe that you are telling the entire truth but in reality, you don't have to right to believe that we MUST believe you.

You look great . and the second pic shows someone who is even in better shape. you wrote that you train and diet non stop and this is a primary focus of your life as you have not many friends and zero social life.

it will be next to impossible to get a doctor to believe that you need AAS. you will have to play up your emotional & psychological issues to an extreme level. talk about how extremely tired you are, all you want to do is lay around all day or whatever, no energy, no sex drive, depression and whatever else.

if any of this is true, nebido is the way to go , with frequent blood work being done in the beginning so that a decent level is maintained.

Not you again. I don't care if you believe me or not. You already made me delete my other thread. This is not about whether I have hypogonadism or not, it's about whether nebido or sus is the way to go for TRT. I want to know which one to prefer in the unlikely event I have a choice. ''

Are you saying that one's physique is the sole indicator for the necessity of TRT? Chronic depression, no libido, low test etc don't matter? I proved that one can achieve a great physique with determination. Low test or not. That doesn't mean I don't have other issues.

As I see it, Sus kicks in faster, gives the user more control and freedom over dosages, and clears the system faster should something go wrong. Although it causes fluctuations, especially if the doc goes by the book and only lets me dose every 3 weeks. It does seem perfect for a trial period though. The person could always switch to Nebido later as vin did.

Realistically speaking, how much longer would Nebido take to kick in compared to Sus?

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Posted

Not you again. I don't care if you believe me or not. You already made me delete my other thread. This is not about whether I have hypogonadism or not, it's about whether nebido or sus is the way to go for TRT. I want to know which one to prefer in the unlikely event I have a choice. ''

No problem. the fact that you are blaming ME for YOU deleting your thread speaks volumes.

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Posted

[quote=iamyou;3693909

Are you saying that one's physique is the sole indicator for the necessity of TRT? Chronic depression, no libido, low test etc don't matter? I proved that one can achieve a great physique with determination. Low test or not. That doesn't mean I don't have other issues.

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Posted (edited)

you wont have 'more control and freedom over dosages' with sust , in the event you are given it they will give you exactly what you are prescribed i.e 250mg a fortnight , they dont give you a 10ml bottle and say come back when you need more :D

as for nebido 'kick in' its different for everyone, it peaks at around 14 days after injection , tho as myself ,vin and others are trying to tell you its not about that its about maintaining a stable level , and because nebido's effects are cumulative for some time this will take at least 4-6 shots (or more) to do.

i.e the first time my endo switched me to nebido he gave me a shot and said i'll see you after 3 more to check levels , considering the timescale was once every 12 weeks thats almost a yr if i'd stayed at that timescale (however i started feeling like **** after 2x12 weeks shots so called him and was switched to 8 weeks , i saw him again 6months after the first shot)

my last trough level was 17n/mol @8 weeks and i feel better than i have for most of my life , i have no E2 issues and dont take an AI.

ppl need to stop looking at levels of test/e2 etc imo and go on how they feel .

Edited by pugster

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Posted (edited)

Realistically speaking, how much longer would Nebido take to kick in compared to Sus?

and the fact that you won't read any of the thread on nebido that ALREADY EXIST on here, speaks volumes.

vin has already written that he took one shot and his testosterone levels were up , above the reference range. and then he monitors it through blood work on a regular schedule.

actually if you read ANY of Big Vin 's , pugster, haza and everyone else's threads on the subject, you will find just about all the information on nebido and sustanon.

but you wont' read it.

my response:

nebido kicks in within a week for some people , 2weeks for others, and then it takes about 1-2 month's of blood work to figure out proper timing of the shots.

there is always some variation in this due to the person involved. genetics and all that.

Edited by dominimo

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Posted (edited)

you wont have 'more control and freedom over dosages' with sust , in the event you are given it they will give you exactly what you are prescribed i.e 250mg a fortnight , they dont give you a 10ml bottle and say come back when you need more :D

yeah.. wouldn't that be nice

" here ya go.... call me if you have any problems" and then you toddle off. this doesn't often happen.

[MENTION=76365]iamyou[/MENTION]

with nebido, you are at the mercy and whims of the doctors/endo and the nasty nurses who shoot you...

if you are diagnosed and need testo therapy, and nebido is prescribed, ask the nurses to warm up the bottle ... :D

read some of the threads on here about this. there's dozens.

Edited by dominimo

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