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Test E & Dianabol ... Gyno

9 posts in this topic

Posted

hey bros,

im on a 12week test e and dbol cycle

test e - 500mg per week (12weeks)

dbol - 50mg per day (5weeks)

NO ADEX

im in week 7 now so dbol is over

i have put on some good size i look alot fuller, my t-shirts are alot tighter and gained some good lbs on the scale so it cant be bunk gear...

the thing is on my last cycle i did test c and winny... i got very itchy and sore nipples, but on this cycle im completely fine.

is this normal?

i fort i would be very sensitive to the dbol and test.

im not complaining hahaha.. just fort i would have been rubbing my nips by now

thanks guys

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Posted

So you worried that you haven't had any gyno on this course! Er ok then most would be glad not wondering why the hell they haven't had it.

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Posted

Your thought you would get gyno an still never ran adex????

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Posted

ive got adex just wasnt going to use it till after my dbol as i want the water weight for strength, but i havent blown up so i have left it out of the cycle up to now.

i understand this is stupid but i fort i was sensitive to gyno and i have not had any signs of it

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Posted

Are you 100% sure the dbol was g2g and WELL dosed?

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Posted

i do trust my source yes, but well doesed not sure really

it was gen-shi lab

1st time ever used dbol and i was on 50mg per day which i fort was abit high, but like i say the results up to now are great :)

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Posted

ive got adex just wasnt going to use it till after my dbol as i want the water weight for strength, but i havent blown up so i have left it out of the cycle up to now.

i understand this is stupid but i fort i was sensitive to gyno and i have not had any signs of it

if you WANT the water retention, but dont want gyno, take Nolvadex- stops the breast tissue responding to oestrogen, but does not stop the conversion of test or dbol to oestrogen.

Of course you're a bit undeducated when it comes to these things and think you will benefit from the water retention- but really if you take Arimidex, you have the following advantages:

1. more of the test/dbol remains as test/dbol rather than converting to oestrogen, so your cycle is more effective.

2. arimidex INCREASES IGF-1:

"... IGF-1 significantly increased during anastrozole treatment (baseline versus 12 weeks, P=0.031)"

from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11983488

You know why increased IGF-1 is good for muscle gains right?

"...IGF-1 is a hormone similar in molecular structure to insulin. It plays an important role in childhood growth and continues to have anabolic effects in adults."

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin-like_growth_factor_1

and also see:

"...IGF-1 stimulated protein synthesis and inhibited protein breakdown in muscles"

from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9586787

also read things like:

IGF1 is a polypeptide hormone about the same size as insulin, or 70 amino acids; its a member of the "super family." No, this is not the same family Clark Kent belongs to, but rather its a family of substances identified as growth factors. Its a highly anabolic hormone released primarily in the liver (but also in peripheral tissues) with the stimulus of Growth Hormone (GH). It is responsible for much of the anabolic activity of GH, including nitrogen retention and protein synthesis (12) as well as muscle cell hyperplasia (increase in number of muscle cells), as well as mitogenesis (the growth of new muscle fibers). It can also induce skeletal muscle hypertrophy by activating the phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase (PI3K)-Akt pathway(9). In fact, IGF-1 acts on several different tissues to enhance growth via several mechanisms. Its also important to note that GH and IGF-1 are interrelated, they produce a host of divergent effects (5).As you may already know, GH and IGF levels are both elevated dramatically following exercise, and this may be a primary factor in the anabolic effects of weight training. In fact, IGF-1 may be possibly used as an anabolic substitute for GH (2) in many instances. IGF-1 is, therefore, necessary as well as sufficient in muscle growth (anabolic)(1) and has been shown to also be highly anti-catabolic agent as well (2)(3). As with all anabolic substances, IGF-1s anabolic effects are still limited only by the protein (amino acid) supply within muscle cells (6) (7). Thus, as you may expect, IGF works much better when you are eating enough protein.

IGF1 may be of particular interests to athletes, as it may improve their ability to learn new skills and techniques relevant to their sport. You see, IGF is a known neuroprotector and neuropromotor(13)(14)(15), which means new skills could be learned more quickly with IGF use, and for the elderly, some of the cognitive effects of aging could be staved off or possibly halted entirely with administration of IGF1. This also has exciting implications for the medical community studying Alzheimers and other such diseases. This is because there are IGF receptors within the brain (16) and in motor neurons (17).

Also of note, and of special interest to both athletes and bodybuilders who are rehabbing an injury is that IGF is vital to the proper production of connective tissue, and exogenous IGF administration may improve collagen formation and aid in the repair of cartilage. (19)(18). IGF is also vital to proper bone density and bone density regulation (20).

IGF administration may be highly useful for rehabilitation of any kind of joint injury experienced by athletes and bodybuilders, and would greatly decrease recovery time as well as increase the strength of the recovered area.

So now we have a basic idea of what IGF does and how it works, so I think we can start looking at how well it works, and what kind of results we can expect from it. While I was (exhaustively) researching this compound, I found a study which provided just the type of answers we are looking for. This study examined the injection of a compound which was responsible for directing over expression of insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) in differentiated muscle fibers. The researchers concluded that IGF-I expression promotes an average increase of 15% in muscle mass and a 14% increase in strength in young adult mice. Its nice to be able to put some numbers on this compound, huh? But those effects are not all that the researchers have found. IGF also seems to prevent aging-related muscle changes in old adult mice! These old mice experienced a 27% increase in strength as compared with uninjected old muscles. Muscle mass and fiber type distributions were maintained at levels similar to those in young adults. The researchers have speculated that these effects are primarily due to stimulation of muscle regeneration via the activation of satellite cells by IGF-I (8). Regardless of the mechanism of action, the results from this study are pretty exciting. A 15% increase in muscle mass, and a 14% increase in strength are no small increases. Consider this, if you are a typical 100kg (220lb) bodybuilder, you would be a 115kg (250lb) bodybuilder after those kinds of results from IGF-1! If you were a powerlifter whos best bench press effort was previously 200kgs (440lbs), then you could expect to be able to bench press 500lbs after using IGF1! Ok, so you cant exactly use that study on mice to justify those numbers, but you get the idea. IGF-1 works and it works very well. Even if we could realistically expect 7% gains in muscle mass and strength (half of the gains experienced in the study), then this drug would be able to blast many bodybuilders and athletes through the plateaus that experienced trainers often endure.

So how can we use this stuff? Well first lets talk about creating an ideal environment for IGF1 to function. See, as youve already read, there is a very great interdependence and synergy between IGF, Insulin, and GH. It has been clearly observed in studies that when GH and IGF1 are used together, youll get greater results in the accumulation of Lean Body Mass than you would by using either of them alone (10).In addition, there is a very strong probability that testosterone would be synergistic to GH (4), and would also increase IGF levels in muscle (11).

Lets take a look at a chart showing what happens when you use IGF-1, IGF-1+GH, or GH alone:

Changes in body weight, lean body mass, and fat mass 6 and 12 weeks after therapy. Values are the mean changes and 95% Cls. * = significant differences compared with baseline (P < 0.01). The following are the numbers of patients in each treatment group at weeks 6 and 12: recombinant human growth hormone plus insulin-like growth factor 1 (rhGH + rhIGF-1), 13 and 9, respectively; rhGH, 12 and 11, respectively; IGF-1, 1D and 4, respectively; placebo, 14 and 11, respectively(10).

As that chart clearly shows, you will lose more fat and gain more muscle when you combine GH and IGF-1 than you would using either alone. The subjects in this study, over 12 weeks gained around 3kgs of lean mass, and lost around 2kgs of fat. Clearly, when we use IGF, we are going to want to use it with GH. And we know that GH functions best when used in conjunction with testosterone. And since we know that GH increases insulin sensitivity, we can throw in some insulin with that GH, and if we are using insulin and dont want to get fat; Id be most comfortable if I could add in a fat burner like T3 with it.

So there we have a laundry list of items essential to get the most out of our IGF use but lets be honest, if you have the money to use IGF (and IGF is expensive stuff), then you should really be including these other items to maximize its effects.

from: steroid.com

Now you can go for water retention.. me I go for extra IGF-1 and lean muscle mass...

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Posted

ausbuilt you are the man!!!!!

no i didnt know any of that and i wont act like i do...

thank you very much for the input and your time :)

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Posted

That info is amazing man!

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