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Long term keto dangers?

41 posts in this topic

Posted

I'm finding it very easy to stay on keto with a 1.5 day refeed on Sat/Sun. It's working well and I can see me staying on this diet for a while.

Are there any health risks to staying on keto long term and if so what is the maximum recommended safe time period to stay on this type of diet?

Thanks

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Posted

it sent my cholesterol to 9.8. not something i would do again :)

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Posted

it sent my cholesterol to 9.8. not something i would do again :)

:eek: What??

I've never heard of anything like this before, is this a common side effect of keto?

Were you on any gear at the time Hilly that could have affected your cholesterol?

I wasn't expecting to get a reply like that.

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Posted

it sent my cholesterol to 9.8. not something i would do again :)

i find this a bit shocking,i'm doing very well with a CKD at the moment.

Were the bulk of your fats from saturates?

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Posted

i find this a bit shocking,i'm doing very well with a CKD at the moment.

Were the bulk of your fats from saturates?

When you say 'doing very well' do you mean in terms of fat loss or your cholesterol profile?

My fats come entirely from fish oils, olive oil and almonds. Except on the cheat days of course.

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Posted

When you say 'doing very well' do you mean in terms of fat loss or your cholesterol profile?

My fats come entirely from fish oils, olive oil and almonds. Except on the cheat days of course.

Very well fat loss,i hadn't even considered cholesterol issues.Like you my fats predominantly come from healthy sources in fact i think i have a peanut butter addiction.

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Posted

Hilly's reply has got me concerned now, I'd finally found a diet that works for fat loss and retains muscle and that I find easy to stick to. I should've known it was too good to be true.

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Posted

Moderate amount of good fats, high amount of protein, a lot of various types of veg that don't have a lot of calories and carbs for the 5 hour window after training = one of the best diets IMO

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Posted

Moderate amount of good fats, high amount of protein, a lot of various types of veg that don't have a lot of calories and carbs for the 5 hour window after training = one of the best diets IMO

...And lots of BCAA's!!

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Posted

Depends on the type of fats you are eating accoording to this article, apparently, saturated fat has a protective effect on the heart and lowers cholesterol. Where as vegetable fats are thought to have an inflammatory effect and oxidise cholesterol - causing atherosclerosis. Heres some quotes:

So the key to figuring out what causes heart disease is figuring out what causes (or prevents) the oxidation of LDL, not figuring out what causes increased levels of LDL qua LDL. Perhaps the most worrying finding is that one thing that seems to cause the oxidation of LDL is linoleic acid a poly-unsaturated fatty acid found primarily in vegetable oils. Saturated fat, on the other hand, actually seems to have a protective effect.

and

That makes some sense with population studies too—populations that traditionally consumed large quantities of saturated fats and dietary cholesterol (Pacific Islanders, the Masai in Africa, the French) generally did not rely heavily on vegetable oils; populations that consumed large quantities of vegetable oils and fish oils (Mediterranean populations, the Japanese) generally consumed relatively little saturated fat and cholesterol.

That also means that eating lots of red meat, milk, and butter or other sources of saturated fat and cholesterol while also eating lots of olive oil, canola oil, and other sources of linoleic acid would be the worst combination possible. It would be a supreme irony if it turned out that one of the primary causes of atherosclerosis and the heart disease associated with it was the olive oil and vegetable oil that public health authorities have been urging a red-meat-eating people to substitute for animal fats for the last sixty years.

Taken from this article:

http://soursaltybittersweet.com/content/things-wont-kill-you-volume-4-saturated-fat-part-ii-cholesterol-myths

Also take a look at these books:

Diet Delusion - Gary Taubes

Both books by Messr's Colpo and Kendrick entitled - The great cholesterol con

Trick and Treat - Barry Groves

Nutrition and physical degeneration - Weston Price

Also both of these physicians, the infamous Dr Atkins and also Dr Lutz treated thousands of patients with obesity issues using a low carb approach. This was with a general lowering of cholesterol, however, it was discussed that those with familial hyperlipidemia will exist. Here is a person who suffers from hyperlipidemia and lost weight on successfully and posted this a forum, they still have higher than normal cholesterol levels - but lower than when they were on a low fat diet:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=37418

Hope this helps :)

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Posted (edited)

I kept a close eye on my HDL/LDL and never had any issues during my last Keto stint (4 months) though no gear was involved.

Moderate amount of good fats, high amount of protein, a lot of various types of veg that don't have a lot of calories and carbs for the 5 hour window after training = one of the best diets IMO
This is what i'm following now and i totally agree :)

Strategic Carbs are the way forward for me!

100 posts lol

Edited by stl

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Posted

I think your find your not actually doing keto as you dont do refeed on keto, what your doing is actually ckd or carb cycling. I started what i thought was keto but got put in my place by dutch scott :crying: Have been doing ckd for nearly 10 wks now and gonna run till the new year ( But started running t3 + clen cycle this week as things had slowed down ) My only sides have being bunged up and taking loads of meds to sort that out !!!

:thumbup1:

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Posted

Question for Hilly

Didn't you follow the Palumbo diet when you had your issues?

i remember a massive thread on this diet,this is what brought me to UKM after a mate recommended i try it.

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Posted

Moderate amount of good fats, high amount of protein, a lot of various types of veg that don't have a lot of calories and carbs for the 5 hour window after training = one of the best diets IMO

Con, I agree with this mate as I have followed this diet in the past with decent results, I actually lean bulked on it last year, I was on 250mg of Test at the time though. :thumbup1:

Could you answer the following:

1. By veg with few calories do you mean for example; spinach, green salad, peppers, mushrooms, onions etc?

2. Can you eat these veg throughout the day or only in the PWO carb intake window?

3. What would be the caloric breakdown percentages of protein/carbs/fats on the diet you describe above?

Cheers

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Posted

Kidney stones,I thought. But people do live on a ketogenic diet, check out Matthewsfriends. com. Guess it may need monitoring from time to time with the ketostix.

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Posted

Con, I agree with this mate as I have followed this diet in the past with decent results, I actually lean bulked on it last year, I was on 250mg of Test at the time though. :thumbup1:

Could you answer the following:

1. By veg with few calories do you mean for example; spinach, green salad, peppers, mushrooms, onions etc?

2. Can you eat these veg throughout the day or only in the PWO carb intake window?

3. What would be the caloric breakdown percentages of protein/carbs/fats on the diet you describe above?

Cheers

Veg choices would be anything bar things like potato, yams, excessive amounts of carrots most other things would be completely fine at any time.

Caloric intake for my self as i follow this diet now as i no longer want to gain weight rather get leaner and more muscular.

Current stats 245lb and decently lean (full abbs visible)

400 protein

250 carb (100 after training 100 one hour after training 50 2 hours after that last meal)

for fats 3 tbs olive oil 2 tbs fish oil, 5 whole eggs, lean grass fed beef so between 120-150 grams on an average day.

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Posted

I think your find your not actually doing keto as you dont do refeed on keto, what your doing is actually ckd or carb cycling. I started what i thought was keto but got put in my place by dutch scott :crying: Have been doing ckd for nearly 10 wks now and gonna run till the new year ( But started running t3 + clen cycle this week as things had slowed down ) My only sides have being bunged up and taking loads of meds to sort that out !!!

:thumbup1:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a CKD a Keto diet? They are both the exact same thing, people just refer to it either as one of the other. Carb cycling on the other hand is different.

See here for CKD/Keto information; http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/nutrition/2156-ckd-cyclical-ketogenic-diet.html

There is more about carb cycling/timed carbs in one of the sticky threads in the losing weight section. CKD/Keto is all about keeping carbs to an absolute minimum. Carb cycling you have low/medium/high carb days.

If your running different diets/cycles then I'd advise that you post up your questions/routine/diet on here as that's what I did and the information that some of these guys have provided is immense and has really helped me out.

BTW, I'm doing a CKD/Keto diet and eat approximately 160g protein a day, 140g fats and 10-20g of carbs. I do this every day and have one refeed a week. I'm personally trying to push the refeed further and further back until I don't need to do it anymore. Doing it this way I lost 3lbs last week, I'm yet to weigh myself this week though so I'll keep my thread updated with that.

Hope this has been of some help though.

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Posted

ps. its all carb cycling here,

grr i go red, u cant have keytones in high ammounts in blood if ur ingesting sugars or low or hi gi carbs even after training, its carb cycling. keto-= keytones. in defecit of available carbs. oxymoron if ur eating them to expect to produce keytones..

LOL VERY TRUE i have seen loads of people posting 'im doing keto' 'my keto diet plan' etc etc only to read and see 'oats post workout' 'banana postworkout'

FFS people KETO = NO CARBS AT ALL (only incidental ones which will come from your nuts and vege)

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Posted

oh yea forgot to mention REFEEDS ARE NOT REQUIRED EVERY WEEK if you HAVE TO HAVE ONE, then it should only be prob once every 10-14 days. and one or 2 meals not 2 friggen days gggrrrrrr but there is no point really other than people not being able to handle the diet. If your in keto why put your body through going in and out of it, everyone who has done it knows they feel **** for the first few days going into keto why go through that every week

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Posted

Dutch,

Are you planning to follow a similar keto diet that you recently did for your assault on the UKBFF scene in 2011?

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Posted (edited)

plus please also note how long it takes to deplete the liver from these refeed days, based on this

bbuilderrs already lean ie furnace burning take 3-5days to deplete when they r trying, so why do guys refeed wen they cant possibly then slip into keto for, its avg 4-5 days, oh look 3 days in keto beforee they fill out again.

simply u can lose fat by dropping carbs but my issue is keto the word the term the diet, is WITHOUT carbs. none, exactly as miss bc says.

iv done tests in uni in lab with bg monitors, keto stix(the real ones) and glyco strips and those refeeds TOTALLY halt keto for days.

Spot on. I noticed this - if I wasn't going clean through a weekend - so 2 weeks between refeeds - it didn't work nearly as effective because most of that first week is re-depletion. As you say about carb ingestion, you also wont get into keto if you have an appreciable amount of glycogen sitting stored.

Targeted keto, with carbs around the workout, just lacks sense and logic to me on so many levels, even the name - like you say, you won't be in true ketosis, it is simply lower calorie with timed carbs - might still work... but keto it is not.

Edited by rs007
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Posted

oh yea forgot to mention REFEEDS ARE NOT REQUIRED EVERY WEEK if you HAVE TO HAVE ONE, then it should only be prob once every 10-14 days. and one or 2 meals not 2 friggen days gggrrrrrr but there is no point really other than people not being able to handle the diet. If your in keto why put your body through going in and out of it, everyone who has done it knows they feel **** for the first few days going into keto why go through that every week

I am a notorious refeeder, 2ish days plus sometimes - and even I curbed it on keto to an evening - hard - but stop-starting the keto process was harder on mind and body... once in it, stay in it. More muscle preservation that way too.

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Posted

whats the point eating carbs fats are so much better, if you want to eat something naughty have some bacon or cheese aslong as it fits into your cals. why risk going in and out and in and out of keto all he friggen time, things take time to work and it will take a week or 2 for your body to get into full swing with keto.

at the mo i eat, turkey rashers, eggs, nuts, protein, chicken, little bit of mozorella cheese on my salad and vege.. nothing else (oh maybe some lean mince on occasion)

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Posted

I always thought the weekly refeeds were necessary to kick start the metabolism after a week of it slowing down with no carbs??

I could easily go 2 weeks without carbs if not more.

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Posted

Agree with Scott, many people want to be a park of the keto club but weeks on end without cheats they just can't handle!

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