Liver tablets, are they anabolic? - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

**hackskii** · 16-09-2005, 06:09 PM

There is no mystery that old timer bodybuilders used to take beef liver tablets.

Why did they do this?
They were a good source of protein.
Beef liver It is a very rich source of B vitamins, especially riboflavin, niacin, B-12, and the lipotropics choline and inositol it contains phosphorous, copper, zinc, chromium.

Also, liver has long been known to have a good source of iron in it.
In fact when I was growing up doctors used to tell anemic people to eat liver to help with iron poor blood, liver is a natural source of iron, also liver contains folic acid, which is good for lowering homocysteine which is a major factor in congestive heart failure.

Your muscles contain myoglobin, an oxygen carrying protein that works inside the cells. Like hemoglobin, myoglobin also requires iron to bind oxygen. Without the iron, the whole oxygen transport system simply won't work. It is well established that iron deficiency decreases work output and athletic performance.

In addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver shown to have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance such as cytochrome P-450 and others yet to be identified.

According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino acid utilization, a growth factor and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin.

Desiccated liver helps to increase red blood cell count and stimulate appetite. Anabolic steroids also stimulate appetite and increase red blood cell count.

Highest protein source is in organ meats.

Some feel that liver has a anabolic effect if taken in large amounts.
I don’t think there is any study supporting this but I can see how this could be possible.
The liver contains all kindof growth hormone factors, makes cholesterol is a vital component of most, if not all cells in the body, and is critical for immune function. Cholesterol is the *mother steroid* in the body, from which many of our hormones are synthesized, estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, etc), converts T4 to T3, etc.

Several years ago, in order to demonstrate the capabilities of liver in the arena of boosting strength and endurance, Dr. B. H. Ershoff conducted a rather interesting experiment. The following is what occurred:

Dr. Ershoff took three groups of rats, and fed them controlled diets for a twelve week period of time. Group one ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group two ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus extra B-vitamins and brewer's yeast. The B-vitamins and yeast were added to the group two diet because of livers high B-vitamin content and the close proximity of brewers yeast to liver's nutrient content. Group three at the same basic diet but were supplemented with desiccated beef liver.

At the end of the twelve weeks of controlled nutrition, the rats were systematically placed in a drum of water. They couldn't climb out, so it was either swim or drown. The group one rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they drowned. Group two, an average of 13.4 minutes. Group three however were still swimming at the end of two hours! The experiment was concluded at that time.

I feel that for the price and nutritional benefit, they are a good selection for supplementation.

Are they anabolic?
Try 100 a day and let me know

Deano1 · 16-09-2005, 06:15 PM

interestin hacks
I will be givin then ago soon out of interest

the_gre8t_1ne · 16-09-2005, 06:17 PM

Hmmmm i may have to try some!

Stu · 16-09-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hackskii

At the end of the twelve weeks of controlled nutrition, the rats were systematically placed in a drum of water. They couldn't climb out, so it was either swim or drown. The group one rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they drowned. Group two, an average of 13.4 minutes. Group three however were still swimming at the end of two hours! The experiment was concluded at that time.

In conclusion beef liver tablets help rats swim for longer

i cant understand why they didnt do the test with humans?

**hackskii** · 16-09-2005, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

In conclusion beef liver tablets help rats swim for longer

i cant understand why they didnt do the test with humans?

Just thought I would post that for the hell of it.

Liver - largest glandular organ of the body, weighing about 3 lb (1.36 kg).

It does so much that I can see how some would think supplementing this glandular would be important, especially when on a cycle or just trying to maintain a positive nitrogen ballance.

Stu · 16-09-2005, 06:43 PM

it was a good read, im just always dubious when they use rats and mice as test subjects

winger · 17-09-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

it was a good read, im just always dubious when they use rats and mice as test subjects

Cause it would take years to do on humans.
I love old school stuff.

**hackskii** · 17-09-2005, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winger

I love old school stuff.

Cuz U R!

ONE SMART COOKIE · 17-09-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Are they anabolic?
Try 100 a day and let me know

I wouldnt advice people to start with 100 you`ll make yourself rather ill if you do,better to go with 10.

I`ve had 6 today and my energy has gone up leaps and bounds.

Quote:

i cant understand why they didnt do the test with humans?

Medical ethics,you cant have humans swimming till they drown,but there was some test done on humans and livers use in endurance events,cycling,marathons etc and the results showed big improvements overall.

Quote:

especially when on a cycle

would be pointless using on a cycle due to the large amounts of p450 that are produced as p450`s main purpose is to help the liver breakdown and destroy foreign bodies in the body so there is a good chance that the gear would be made weaker and not work as effectively.

**hackskii** · 17-09-2005, 02:15 PM

So cookie, eating the liver tabs will help in production of Cytochrome p450 and give the liver support?

**hackskii** · 17-09-2005, 02:27 PM

Just found this

P450 Metabolism
Managing Drug Interactions

Today, there are several updated p450 pharmacology charts on the Internet to help health providers assess potential drug interactions. The following chart tells you what p450 liver pathway is used by a given drug. If two drugs use the same pathway, they could affect one another. In general, a P450 substrate is any drug that uses the cytochrome p450 enzyme pathway. P450 inhibitors (INH) generally increase concentrations of other drugs. P450 inducers (IND) generally decrease concentrations of other drugs. P450 enzymes are classified using Roman numerals and letters. Almost half of all human drugs use p450 3A4; another 30 percent use p450 2D6.

Explanation of Table:
P450 substrate (S) is any drug that uses the Cytochrome p450 enzyme pathway.
P450 inhibitors (INH) generally increase concentrations of other drugs.
P450 inducers (IND) generally decrease concentrations of other drugs.
Some HIV drugs are both inducers and inhibitors.

Marijuana/Marinol: Uses p450 3A4, 2C9, 2C6 liver pathways. Specific interactions unknown.

Cocaine: Uses p450 liver pathways: Minor 2D6 inhibitor, 3A4 inducer, 2B1, 1A2. Unlikely interaction with protease inhibitors. In one reported test-tube study, cocaine made HIV reproduce 20 times faster than normal.

Alcohol: Metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase, aldehype hydrogenase; may induce p450 3A and 2E1 (minor). Avoid or use moderately. Causes dehydration; drink a lot of water.

I thought this interesting, http://www.aidsinfonyc.org/hivplus/i...head/p450.html
Look down to the steroids, I also thought that the grapefruit juice was interesting too.
I remember cookie talking about that once.

**hackskii** · 17-09-2005, 02:31 PM

Cool PDF here on liver and detox.

ONE SMART COOKIE · 17-09-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

So cookie, eating the liver tabs will help in production of Cytochrome p450 and give the liver support?

Yep

Quote:

I also thought that the grapefruit juice was interesting too.
I remember cookie talking about that once.

That I did.

**hackskii** · 17-09-2005, 02:54 PM

Grapefruit Juice and Certain Medications: A Poor Match

Should I take my medications at breakfast with my grapefruit juice? Depending on the particular medications you are taking, the answer could be an emphatic "no"!
When taken with some medications, grapefruit juice increases the amount of drug in the blood. The medications affected by grapefruit juice are those that are metabolized, or broken down in the body, by the liver. Grapefruit juice has been found to inhibit the enzyme in the liver that breaks down the drugs. Therefore, more of the drug is available in the bloodstream and the patient may experience adverse effects. These interactions do not occur when either water or orange juice is substituted for grapefruit juice. It is believed that flaconoids, which are found in grapefruit juice but not in orange juice, are the cause of the problems.

The first clasification of medications reported as adversely affected by grapejuice are calcium channel antagonists. These medications are often prescribed to treat high blood pressure. Felodipine (brand name, Plendil), nifedipine (Adalat, Procardia), diltiazem (Cardizem, Dilacor), nitrendipine (Baypress) and nisoldipine (Sular) are some of the calcium channel antagonists that have been found to be affected. Some patients have reported headaches, flushed faces and lightheadedness when drinking the juice and taking these medications.

Benzodiazepines, used to treat anxiety, are broken down in the liver and are affected by grapefruit juice. Midazolam (versed) and triazolam (Halcion) taken with grapefruit juice may result in drowsiness and a decrease in reaction times. Blood levels of the antihistamine, terfenadine (Seldane), have been found to increase when taken together with grapefruit juice. Similar results have been found with quinidine, coumarin (Coumadin), and estrogens.

While grapefruit juice may have unwanted effects for patients who are unaware of the potential for problems, there may be some advantages to this drug - food interaction. Some authors have proposed that adding components of grapefruit juice to certain medications could result in the same medication potency in a individual at less cost or at a lower number of daily doses. The medical community will investigate those issues further. As for now, consult your physician or pharmacist if you think you may be experiencing a problem.

JSM · 17-09-2005, 03:04 PM

I am a big fan of the liver tabs. I think they work great to fill in the gaps in your diet to make sure you have that extra protein. I also think you can see a definite change in how hard you look just from taking these

16-09-2005, 06:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,676	Liver tablets, are they anabolic? There is no mystery that old timer bodybuilders used to take beef liver tablets. Why did they do this? They were a good source of protein. Beef liver It is a very rich source of B vitamins, especially riboflavin, niacin, B-12, and the lipotropics choline and inositol it contains phosphorous, copper, zinc, chromium. Also, liver has long been known to have a good source of iron in it. In fact when I was growing up doctors used to tell anemic people to eat liver to help with iron poor blood, liver is a natural source of iron, also liver contains folic acid, which is good for lowering homocysteine which is a major factor in congestive heart failure. Your muscles contain myoglobin, an oxygen carrying protein that works inside the cells. Like hemoglobin, myoglobin also requires iron to bind oxygen. Without the iron, the whole oxygen transport system simply won't work. It is well established that iron deficiency decreases work output and athletic performance. In addition to these known nutrients, there are substances present in liver shown to have a beneficial effect on health, fitness, and endurance such as cytochrome P-450 and others yet to be identified. According to Vince Gironda, the "Iron Guru", desiccated liver contains nucleic acids for proper amino acid utilization, a growth factor and an anti-estrogen factor, which keeps testosterone levels high, and it is also a great anti-toxin. Desiccated liver helps to increase red blood cell count and stimulate appetite. Anabolic steroids also stimulate appetite and increase red blood cell count. Highest protein source is in organ meats. Some feel that liver has a anabolic effect if taken in large amounts. I don’t think there is any study supporting this but I can see how this could be possible. The liver contains all kindof growth hormone factors, makes cholesterol is a vital component of most, if not all cells in the body, and is critical for immune function. Cholesterol is the mother steroid in the body, from which many of our hormones are synthesized, estrogen, testosterone, progesterone, etc), converts T4 to T3, etc. Several years ago, in order to demonstrate the capabilities of liver in the arena of boosting strength and endurance, Dr. B. H. Ershoff conducted a rather interesting experiment. The following is what occurred: Dr. Ershoff took three groups of rats, and fed them controlled diets for a twelve week period of time. Group one ate a basic diet fortified with vitamins and minerals. Group two ate as much as they wanted of the same diet plus extra B-vitamins and brewer's yeast. The B-vitamins and yeast were added to the group two diet because of livers high B-vitamin content and the close proximity of brewers yeast to liver's nutrient content. Group three at the same basic diet but were supplemented with desiccated beef liver. At the end of the twelve weeks of controlled nutrition, the rats were systematically placed in a drum of water. They couldn't climb out, so it was either swim or drown. The group one rats swam an average of 13.2 minutes before they drowned. Group two, an average of 13.4 minutes. Group three however were still swimming at the end of two hours! The experiment was concluded at that time. I feel that for the price and nutritional benefit, they are a good selection for supplementation. Are they anabolic? Try 100 a day and let me know __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

16-09-2005, 06:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
the_gre8t_1ne Your Friendly neighbourhood pusha! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Ghetto (West, London) Posts: 4,018	Hmmmm i may have to try some! __________________ Know your role and shut your mouth! or I'll layeth the SMACK DOWN on your Candy ASS!! If you smelalalalalalooouuuu To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. the gre8t 1ne.......is cooking!? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. also find me at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

16-09-2005, 06:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Stu original nutter Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: No fixed abode Posts: 743	it was a good read, im just always dubious when they use rats and mice as test subjects __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-09-2005, 02:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,676	So cookie, eating the liver tabs will help in production of Cytochrome p450 and give the liver support? __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 17-09-2005 at 02:19 PM.

17-09-2005, 02:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,676	Just found this P450 Metabolism Managing Drug Interactions Today, there are several updated p450 pharmacology charts on the Internet to help health providers assess potential drug interactions. The following chart tells you what p450 liver pathway is used by a given drug. If two drugs use the same pathway, they could affect one another. In general, a P450 substrate is any drug that uses the cytochrome p450 enzyme pathway. P450 inhibitors (INH) generally increase concentrations of other drugs. P450 inducers (IND) generally decrease concentrations of other drugs. P450 enzymes are classified using Roman numerals and letters. Almost half of all human drugs use p450 3A4; another 30 percent use p450 2D6. Explanation of Table: P450 substrate (S) is any drug that uses the Cytochrome p450 enzyme pathway. P450 inhibitors (INH) generally increase concentrations of other drugs. P450 inducers (IND) generally decrease concentrations of other drugs. Some HIV drugs are both inducers and inhibitors. Marijuana/Marinol: Uses p450 3A4, 2C9, 2C6 liver pathways. Specific interactions unknown. Cocaine: Uses p450 liver pathways: Minor 2D6 inhibitor, 3A4 inducer, 2B1, 1A2. Unlikely interaction with protease inhibitors. In one reported test-tube study, cocaine made HIV reproduce 20 times faster than normal. Alcohol: Metabolized by alcohol dehydrogenase, aldehype hydrogenase; may induce p450 3A and 2E1 (minor). Avoid or use moderately. Causes dehydration; drink a lot of water. I thought this interesting, http://www.aidsinfonyc.org/hivplus/i...head/p450.html Look down to the steroids, I also thought that the grapefruit juice was interesting too. I remember cookie talking about that once. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

16-09-2005, 06:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Deano1 daddy raikeys secret love child!!!!! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: ?they wont tell me? Posts: 817	interestin hacks I will be givin then ago soon out of interest

17-09-2005, 02:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
hackskii Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 22,676	Grapefruit Juice and Certain Medications: A Poor Match Should I take my medications at breakfast with my grapefruit juice? Depending on the particular medications you are taking, the answer could be an emphatic "no"! When taken with some medications, grapefruit juice increases the amount of drug in the blood. The medications affected by grapefruit juice are those that are metabolized, or broken down in the body, by the liver. Grapefruit juice has been found to inhibit the enzyme in the liver that breaks down the drugs. Therefore, more of the drug is available in the bloodstream and the patient may experience adverse effects. These interactions do not occur when either water or orange juice is substituted for grapefruit juice. It is believed that flaconoids, which are found in grapefruit juice but not in orange juice, are the cause of the problems. The first clasification of medications reported as adversely affected by grapejuice are calcium channel antagonists. These medications are often prescribed to treat high blood pressure. Felodipine (brand name, Plendil), nifedipine (Adalat, Procardia), diltiazem (Cardizem, Dilacor), nitrendipine (Baypress) and nisoldipine (Sular) are some of the calcium channel antagonists that have been found to be affected. Some patients have reported headaches, flushed faces and lightheadedness when drinking the juice and taking these medications. Benzodiazepines, used to treat anxiety, are broken down in the liver and are affected by grapefruit juice. Midazolam (versed) and triazolam (Halcion) taken with grapefruit juice may result in drowsiness and a decrease in reaction times. Blood levels of the antihistamine, terfenadine (Seldane), have been found to increase when taken together with grapefruit juice. Similar results have been found with quinidine, coumarin (Coumadin), and estrogens. While grapefruit juice may have unwanted effects for patients who are unaware of the potential for problems, there may be some advantages to this drug - food interaction. Some authors have proposed that adding components of grapefruit juice to certain medications could result in the same medication potency in a individual at less cost or at a lower number of daily doses. The medical community will investigate those issues further. As for now, consult your physician or pharmacist if you think you may be experiencing a problem. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-09-2005, 03:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
JSM Gym Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 125	I am a big fan of the liver tabs. I think they work great to fill in the gaps in your diet to make sure you have that extra protein. I also think you can see a definite change in how hard you look just from taking these

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