Shedding fat, supplement advice - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Dmaster · 07-09-2005, 04:05 AM

Over the last month i've hugely altered my diet/exercising.

Have started rowing for cardio 3/4 times a week. At the moment following a full body workout 3 times a week but thrown in some extra days rest here and there.
From changing my diet so much though, 3 big meals a day plus bad snacks(chocolate, sweets, crisps, etc) to 3 smaller meals a day with protein shakes making up another 3 meals. I've cut carbs a lot and am finding i have very little energy at the moment. I think i went a bit OTT on the protein shakes and didn't really eat enough actual food so upping carbs again.

Might be a bit premature to add supplements for fat burning, but i feel they will help and just want to work out what ones might be best.

From reading lots of threads, everyone seems to suggest so many as being good, though the SAN Tight seems to get pretty high praise. I was thinking of trying that and taking l-carnitine supplement too? Its hard to know whats gimmick and whats not really, are there any others that might be better, cheaper(price is an issue to a point but not planning on staying on them for too long, if there is something just as good but cheaper i'm all for it).

Also, at the moment its extremely hard to tell if i'm losing weight, early into program, weights not changing much but i can tell just from looking that lots of my muscles have gotten bigger. Are body fat sensing scales remotely accurate, worth getting a set?

One last thing, side effects, from what i can tell the SAN tight supp is mainly a thermogenic style fat burner, any side effects at all? I've read quite a few people saying different fat burning supps also help give energy throughout the day and can help you workout harder. Do most do that, or ones containing caffeine or other stimulants only? are they safe and if so which ones are worth trying?

Thanks to anyone that replies.

Dmaster · 07-09-2005, 04:15 AM

also reading through this forum i've seen a lot of mention of ECA ECY stacks, and using clen. are there any brands to look out for them, many/any side effects while using them, or easy to control with the right dosage?

**Pscarb** · 07-09-2005, 09:41 AM

welcome to the board Dmaster...

it is good to see that you realised that your diet was bad and took the step to change it.
you are correct if you drop the carbs too much then your energy levels will suffer but you can counter this by adding some good fats to the diet like Salmon/Mackeral/Udo's oil/Peanut Butter....
Make sure you are geting 1-1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight this should be enough to maintain and build whilst on a decent diet.

as for fat burners....
products like SAN tight and Lean system 7 are very good but they are OTC products and their usefullness is limited i have used both and both seem ok.
ECA/ECY are ephedrine based fat burners you used to be able to buy them in fatburners but ephedrine is now banned.
the sides of these stacks are jitters(shakes) some palpatations sweating they can be controlled by lowering the dosage.
their is a major diffrence between an OTC product and a Ephedrine based product you will get major results with a Ehpedrine based product..

**Great White** · 07-09-2005, 09:49 AM

Hello mate.

As PScarb says, the ephradrine based stacks are much more effective, but unfortuntally ephradrine is banned from the OTC market now so you will have to source it on the Black Market.

As for OTC supps, SAN Tight and Muscle Tech Hydroxycut are by far the best.

Dmaster · 07-09-2005, 01:10 PM

well, i got my late night buying bug again and grabbed some stuff that i thought would help.

I guess i might try eca/ecy stack in the future, is it a good idea to cycle say tight for a couple weeks couple weeks off, and maybe a ecy stack during offtime of tight?

What kind of cost does a ecy stack end up being, is it something i can have shipped from the states , i need to look around a bit more but tbh i don't know what the stack is. ephradrine obviously, not sure what the C is , the a is aspirin but people are saying its actually not useful and the Y is something i can't remember either. What do the different parts do, essential you take all 3?

I'm also a vegetarian, i'm under the impression creatine would be a good supplement as most of the natural stuff you get of it would be from red meats? anything else veggies should probo get more of?

Jock · 07-09-2005, 06:02 PM

OTC products are okay but have nothing on classic ECA or ECY stacks...

EXTREME · 08-09-2005, 12:28 AM

You'll find eph25+ at www.gymwear.org, they are an eca supplement which I would say is the best around just now, I think they are available for around £25 or so with delivery included.

These are not an Extreme product but they are one I use regulary myself because I rate them.

Personally I think Lean System 7 is crud, they manufacturers are being prosecuted for misleading advertising. Unfortunately by the time the authorities decide to act we've all seen and possibly bought their BS. Check this out http://www.supplemen****chdog.com/lean-system-7.shtml

**Pscarb** · 08-09-2005, 10:04 AM

cheers for that dougie guess my LS7 will be in the bin in a minute....

**hackskii** · 08-09-2005, 10:17 AM

C= is for caffene
Y= is for yohimbe

Both of those make the other stimulants more effective.
Although I am not a big fan of stimulants, they do have their place but trying to sweat and figit the weight off, diet is a much better suggestion to your solution.

Also stimulants can give you adrenal burnout if taken for long periods of time as well as disrupt sleep.

If you are going to take them then do it early and do cardio.

The carnitine should be taken with breakfast and lunch.

If you want to control bodyfat or belly fat then you have to control insulin.
Fat suppresses insulin, carbohydrates raise blood sugars which in turn raise insulin.
So keeping the carbs low in the GI and or add a fiber and fat to the carb you will lower insulin responce to that meal.

Most vegetables are low in the GI, with the exception of stuff like corn, carrots, potato.
Cooking the vegetable also raises the GI of the carb in the vegetable too.

SA12 · 08-09-2005, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Govier

Hello mate.

As PScarb says, the ephradrine based stacks are much more effective, but unfortuntally ephradrine is banned from the OTC market now so you will have to source it on the Black Market.

As for OTC supps, SAN Tight and Muscle Tech Hydroxycut are by far the best.

What happens if you buy these products from the US where it is being sold OTC?

Will customs stop the supplements as they come into the country?

Cheers

**Pscarb** · 08-09-2005, 02:44 PM

you will find that Ephedrine based products have been banned since april 11th 2004 in the states although there are some company's trying to get this overturned.

at this time there are no company's selling ephedrine based products in the states.

SA12 · 08-09-2005, 03:02 PM

Sorry my fault, but with a quick search on google brought up this company:

http://astronutrition.com/index.php?...dex&cPath=25_1

Is Ma Huang the same as Epehdrine?

Dmaster · 08-09-2005, 06:09 PM

thats the place i found, was going to ask if they were safe to order from if anyones tried them? they make mention of customs possibly impounding the stuff as its technically not legal for them to hand it over if they know what it is. but you can't get in trouble for having a small amount from what they say, its not actually illegal to have a small amount. if thats all true then i might order some.

Is it a bad idea to go for ECY stack at first? as from what i understand the yohimbe makes it much more potent basically, good idea to try ECA first as its not as harsh?

also , sorry if i'm being dumb but is that eph25+, actually epehdrine based, or herb replacement for it?

also what kind of dosage should we be looking at taking, starting and possible max, one site has same brand product in cap/powder form one says use one tab a day with 2.5mg in, the powder says recommended use for epehdrine is 0.2mg/kg which equates to 20mg a day for me, hugely different numbers there. I would guess its best to buy caffeine/eph/yohimbe(or aspirin) separately so you can up one and find perfect amount for all 3?

**hackskii** · 08-09-2005, 06:09 PM

eph 25 is ephedrine 25mg
20 mg is ok for you.
25 jackes me up hard and I am 200 lbs.
You will get used to it as it attenuates or the med does not work as good, so you will have to cycle this to get the best bang for the buck.
Yohimbe from what I have read does not down regulate beta receptors and actually from what I read does the opposite.
So you can take less eph and take it with yohimbe and get a better benefit from that.
Cayenne taken with it makes them all stronger as it increases circulation to all organs in the body.
Add this for some extra heat.
Very good herb for you.

Actually ephedra products are still being sold but not by them selves.
Bronkaid
Primatine tablets
both of thos asthma OTC stuff still has ephedra in it.
I still can get vasapro myself and this is 25mg of Ephedrine Hydorcloride
The supp guy bought a bunch of this before they went off the market and still sells to regulars.

That stuff wires me for 220 hard.

Also if you take yohimbe with another thermo product it makes it stronger too.
So does caffene.

**Pscarb** · 08-09-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SA12

Sorry my fault, but with a quick search on google brought up this company:

http://astronutrition.com/index.php?...dex&cPath=25_1

Is Ma Huang the same as Epehdrine?

no and yes it is the herbal derivative so apperantly they can use it...the ban is stupid and won't last long imo

07-09-2005, 04:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
Dmaster Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 12	Shedding fat, supplement advice Over the last month i've hugely altered my diet/exercising. Have started rowing for cardio 3/4 times a week. At the moment following a full body workout 3 times a week but thrown in some extra days rest here and there. From changing my diet so much though, 3 big meals a day plus bad snacks(chocolate, sweets, crisps, etc) to 3 smaller meals a day with protein shakes making up another 3 meals. I've cut carbs a lot and am finding i have very little energy at the moment. I think i went a bit OTT on the protein shakes and didn't really eat enough actual food so upping carbs again. Might be a bit premature to add supplements for fat burning, but i feel they will help and just want to work out what ones might be best. From reading lots of threads, everyone seems to suggest so many as being good, though the SAN Tight seems to get pretty high praise. I was thinking of trying that and taking l-carnitine supplement too? Its hard to know whats gimmick and whats not really, are there any others that might be better, cheaper(price is an issue to a point but not planning on staying on them for too long, if there is something just as good but cheaper i'm all for it). Also, at the moment its extremely hard to tell if i'm losing weight, early into program, weights not changing much but i can tell just from looking that lots of my muscles have gotten bigger. Are body fat sensing scales remotely accurate, worth getting a set? One last thing, side effects, from what i can tell the SAN tight supp is mainly a thermogenic style fat burner, any side effects at all? I've read quite a few people saying different fat burning supps also help give energy throughout the day and can help you workout harder. Do most do that, or ones containing caffeine or other stimulants only? are they safe and if so which ones are worth trying? Thanks to anyone that replies.

08-09-2005, 06:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 24,337	eph 25 is ephedrine 25mg 20 mg is ok for you. 25 jackes me up hard and I am 200 lbs. You will get used to it as it attenuates or the med does not work as good, so you will have to cycle this to get the best bang for the buck. Yohimbe from what I have read does not down regulate beta receptors and actually from what I read does the opposite. So you can take less eph and take it with yohimbe and get a better benefit from that. Cayenne taken with it makes them all stronger as it increases circulation to all organs in the body. Add this for some extra heat. Very good herb for you. Actually ephedra products are still being sold but not by them selves. Bronkaid Primatine tablets both of thos asthma OTC stuff still has ephedra in it. I still can get vasapro myself and this is 25mg of Ephedrine Hydorcloride The supp guy bought a bunch of this before they went off the market and still sells to regulars. That stuff wires me for 220 hard. Also if you take yohimbe with another thermo product it makes it stronger too. So does caffene. Last edited by hackskii; 08-09-2005 at 06:13 PM.

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07-09-2005, 04:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
Dmaster Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 12	also reading through this forum i've seen a lot of mention of ECA ECY stacks, and using clen. are there any brands to look out for them, many/any side effects while using them, or easy to control with the right dosage?

07-09-2005, 09:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,963	welcome to the board Dmaster... it is good to see that you realised that your diet was bad and took the step to change it. you are correct if you drop the carbs too much then your energy levels will suffer but you can counter this by adding some good fats to the diet like Salmon/Mackeral/Udo's oil/Peanut Butter.... Make sure you are geting 1-1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight this should be enough to maintain and build whilst on a decent diet. as for fat burners.... products like SAN tight and Lean system 7 are very good but they are OTC products and their usefullness is limited i have used both and both seem ok. ECA/ECY are ephedrine based fat burners you used to be able to buy them in fatburners but ephedrine is now banned. the sides of these stacks are jitters(shakes) some palpatations sweating they can be controlled by lowering the dosage. their is a major diffrence between an OTC product and a Ephedrine based product you will get major results with a Ehpedrine based product..

07-09-2005, 09:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
Great White Sexy Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9,262	Hello mate. As PScarb says, the ephradrine based stacks are much more effective, but unfortuntally ephradrine is banned from the OTC market now so you will have to source it on the Black Market. As for OTC supps, SAN Tight and Muscle Tech Hydroxycut are by far the best.

07-09-2005, 01:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
Dmaster Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 12	well, i got my late night buying bug again and grabbed some stuff that i thought would help. I guess i might try eca/ecy stack in the future, is it a good idea to cycle say tight for a couple weeks couple weeks off, and maybe a ecy stack during offtime of tight? What kind of cost does a ecy stack end up being, is it something i can have shipped from the states , i need to look around a bit more but tbh i don't know what the stack is. ephradrine obviously, not sure what the C is , the a is aspirin but people are saying its actually not useful and the Y is something i can't remember either. What do the different parts do, essential you take all 3? I'm also a vegetarian, i'm under the impression creatine would be a good supplement as most of the natural stuff you get of it would be from red meats? anything else veggies should probo get more of?

07-09-2005, 06:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jock LEAGUE LEGEND! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 3,082	OTC products are okay but have nothing on classic ECA or ECY stacks...

08-09-2005, 12:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
EXTREME UK-Muscle Sponsor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 360	You'll find eph25+ at www.gymwear.org, they are an eca supplement which I would say is the best around just now, I think they are available for around £25 or so with delivery included. These are not an Extreme product but they are one I use regulary myself because I rate them. Personally I think Lean System 7 is crud, they manufacturers are being prosecuted for misleading advertising. Unfortunately by the time the authorities decide to act we've all seen and possibly bought their BS. Check this out http://www.supplemen****chdog.com/lean-system-7.shtml

08-09-2005, 10:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,963	cheers for that dougie guess my LS7 will be in the bin in a minute....

08-09-2005, 10:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 24,337	C= is for caffene Y= is for yohimbe Both of those make the other stimulants more effective. Although I am not a big fan of stimulants, they do have their place but trying to sweat and figit the weight off, diet is a much better suggestion to your solution. Also stimulants can give you adrenal burnout if taken for long periods of time as well as disrupt sleep. If you are going to take them then do it early and do cardio. The carnitine should be taken with breakfast and lunch. If you want to control bodyfat or belly fat then you have to control insulin. Fat suppresses insulin, carbohydrates raise blood sugars which in turn raise insulin. So keeping the carbs low in the GI and or add a fiber and fat to the carb you will lower insulin responce to that meal. Most vegetables are low in the GI, with the exception of stuff like corn, carrots, potato. Cooking the vegetable also raises the GI of the carb in the vegetable too.

08-09-2005, 02:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
Pscarb UK-Muscle Moderator and NABBA Champion Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 10,963	you will find that Ephedrine based products have been banned since april 11th 2004 in the states although there are some company's trying to get this overturned. at this time there are no company's selling ephedrine based products in the states.

08-09-2005, 03:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
SA12 Getting HUGE! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,364	Sorry my fault, but with a quick search on google brought up this company: http://astronutrition.com/index.php?...dex&cPath=25_1 Is Ma Huang the same as Epehdrine?

08-09-2005, 06:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
Dmaster Newbie Trainer Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 12	thats the place i found, was going to ask if they were safe to order from if anyones tried them? they make mention of customs possibly impounding the stuff as its technically not legal for them to hand it over if they know what it is. but you can't get in trouble for having a small amount from what they say, its not actually illegal to have a small amount. if thats all true then i might order some. Is it a bad idea to go for ECY stack at first? as from what i understand the yohimbe makes it much more potent basically, good idea to try ECA first as its not as harsh? also , sorry if i'm being dumb but is that eph25+, actually epehdrine based, or herb replacement for it? also what kind of dosage should we be looking at taking, starting and possible max, one site has same brand product in cap/powder form one says use one tab a day with 2.5mg in, the powder says recommended use for epehdrine is 0.2mg/kg which equates to 20mg a day for me, hugely different numbers there. I would guess its best to buy caffeine/eph/yohimbe(or aspirin) separately so you can up one and find perfect amount for all 3?