hackskii

Well, I can only say that the 40 gram rule is for the average joe or jane. I think a guy on gear can probably add some more to that but 100 grams is too much in one sitting. I am on a cycle too and I bumped the protein to about 200 grams a day. I was only taking in about 100 before. I will tell you what on cycle food tastes so good and I am hungry all the time. I eat massive food on cycle. Steak to me taste like candy oncycle.
I dont have any protein drinks and would if I just go buy it.

__________________
Scott

Greyphantom

Hi Turbo... the 40gram thing was bandied about by supp companys when they were making 40 gram per serve shakes... now they make higher and funnily enough the amount has risen... but having said that it is best to break up the intake... My shakes have about 50+ grams of protein in them and I regularly eat 60-70+ grams of protein in my meals... every 3 hours or less... I have read that the body can learn to utilise more protein per sitting too... the 100 gram shake right after the w/o is pretty good.. my shake after my work out is about 115 grams... the body is supposed to be able to absorb 1 gram per kilo of bw... but I add in a little more to make sure...

robdog

what make are the shakes that contain 100grams plus of protein

cheers

rob

Greyphantom

I make my own from bulk wpc and micellar casein... mix up a couple of 1litre containers every day or so... they come out to about 3 shakes of just over 50grams and I have a double one right after training...

hackskii

Easy guys.
I eat proteins and carbs and fats all together. Lets just look at the math. 100 grams of protein is 400 cals. By itself that is not bad but you need some carbs and fats in that, somewhere in the 40-30-30 range of quality stuff.
100 grams of protein would be like 4 small cans of tuna solid white albacore. Is there much room for anything else?
Shakes are great but food is best. Mother nature is much better than man made any day. Supps are supps and this is just an addition to a regular diet.
Meat has CLA and zinc. Lets just look at this Zinc supports immune function and CLA is a good antioxident. Good stuff.
3 chicken breasts would be 100 grams of protein, but is that a meal. Lets not get carried away here. Meals should be structured for a designed profile, weight loss, weight gain, sustaining. Fats, carbs (quality) and protein all are food. There is no more one more important than another.
Eat every 2-3 hours and dont consume more than 500 cals per serving and dont forget to drink massive amounts of water as this metabolizes the protein and flushes out the toxins.
More is not better in this circumstance.
Sorry if I stepped on any toes

__________________
Scott

Greyphantom

Sorry I should have explained that my shakes also have some carbs in them and fat... I also usually eat some fruit (esp bananas) with them... I also have 2-3 normal meals a day and like to mix them around... I have found that if you mash eggs and potato together then you get a really good protein/carb balance and you make the bioavailability much higher... I mix my protein sources as much as poss... beef, chicken, ham/pork...

I am not a great believer in the ratios given in general but have found that the higher protein with a slightly higher fat diet works well for me...

Sorry for any misunderstanding but I certainly do not advocate 100grams of only protein at every meal.. just after training as this is when your body can absord the most protein quite quickly as the muscles are crying out for the stuff..

Agree on the water issue... drink heaps... and definitely more often re meals is best... cheers...

robdog

i have heard that you shouldnt eat more than 50 grams of protein per sitting but from what greyphantom says this is bull. im glad because ive been worried about over consumption lately. but thanks to people on here not anymore

cheers

hackskii

Here is small portions of a article from a Dr.

If the body is chronically overloaded with protein it begins down-regulating protein storage enzymes secondary to anticipating excess protein. The body also initiates other adaptive changes including decreased absorption and increased excretion of protein (definitely counterproductive).

Gaining muscle through massive consumption of protein is a "live by the sword, die by the sword" kind of concept. Let me explain. The body, in an attempt to dispose of excess protein, will shift metabolic gears, so to speak, and preferentially use protein via gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis for energy. This may sound tolerable (even though we just discussed the associated toxicity) but what happens if, God forbid, you miss a meal or two? Guess what—all those enzymes sitting around chewing up all that excess protein for energy are still there, turned on full blast, using muscle for fuel at nearly the same rate that you were consuming your protein. Your gains will soon disappear via the adage "easy come, easy go."

My 2 cents:
I think you can have large amounts of protein a day but it should be spread out so that it can be used all day. Go ahead and take in 400 grams a day but like creatine it becomes ineffective if not cycled correctly. Just drop the grams down to lets say half of what you were putting in and then you can bump it up later.
I am a big proponent of the ballanced carbs with the fats and protein. This keeps blood sugar levels stable and not spiking which in turn keeps energy levels from not going up and down.
If you are bulking then I definetly would up the carbs some as this volumizes the muscle cells.

__________________
Scott

Greyphantom

Heres something from the protein roundtable by a group of guys that was in T-Mag... this is from Lonnie Lowrey a college nutrition prof, researcher and bber... he says

"I think there are real body composition advantages to eating upwards of 1.5 g/ lb. That's right, overfeed protein! First off, overeating protein, within reason, will not make you fat. A calorie is not a calorie! That is, excess protein calories aren't as likely to be stored as body fat compared to carbs and most fats. This is because protein has to have its nitrogen ripped off in the liver (the urea cycle), which is an energy costly process. To boot, protein kicks up glucagon secretion and glucagon antagonizes the lipogenic (fat storage) effects of insulin. Carbs don't lend people the same favor; they just jack insulin levels sky high. The net result is that the thermic effect of food is about 30% of the intake for proteins, while it's just 4 to 6% for fats and carbohydrates. This means that for a 100 calorie meal, protein will require a full 30 calories just to process it, compared to a mere 4 to 6 calories expended to process those yummy gut-expanding carbs and fats. The bottom line is that it appears better to overeat than to under-eat protein when you're trying to add muscle mass while keeping the body fat off. I'll say it again; you should overfeed protein. You'll **** off a good deal of it, but so what? It won't hurt you unless you've got kidney disease and you'll have the assurance that your ball-busting gym work is getting the required nutritional support. My old classroom quote (much to the chagrin of certain traditional dietetics instructors) is: "By hitting the weights and taking anabolic supplements, you've hired a brick layer. Now you've got to give him some bricks." Of course, as Cy pointed out, you also need some carbs and fat for energy, so we'll call them the "gas" for your bricklayer's equipment. You should vary these according to your glucose tolerance and energy expenditure. To further support my point, check out this data:
JB: Oh hell, the professor is pulling out charts!
LL: Just pay attention, smart ass!
Figure 1.A comparison of two 170 pound athletes, one who just ate real food versus one who consumed two MRP's per day plus food:Subject and Protein Intake Urinary nitrogen (Protein Lost) Net Protein Gained
1. Whole foods (78g protein/day) 12g (75g protein broken down) 78-75 = 3g per day
2. Whole foods plus MRP (175g protein/day) 27g (169g protein broken down) 175-169 = 6g per day
Obviously, although subject #2 lost more nitrogen and protein per day, in the end he still netted the most protein by double the amount!"

And one of the other chaps goes on to say about single serves of protein... (Cy Wilson who's expertise is in the areas of physiology, endocrinology, and pharmacology, and their respective applications to bodybuilding.) "I'll say that based on size, a minimum of 40 grams per sitting should work well for everyone. It's important that people know that those amino acids do a heck of a lot more than build muscle. You need them to form a lot of various hormones and neurotransmitters, as well as other important constituents in the human body. "...

BSF James

Both are interesting points of view - neither being 100% correct or 100% wrong. With articles from magazines funded by supplement companies - like T mag which is run by Biotest, you should always be wary of their reasons for telling you what they are telling you. They make and sell protein supplements, so of course they are going to tell you that you need loads of protein and you cant get too much (just as they tell you that myostatin supplements work! ). On the other hand, some of what they wrote in that article is true - a calorie is not a calorie etc...

Hackskii's article also has a lot of truth in there - for instance increasing your protein intake also increases your body's requirement/thirst for protein. I think the body adapts to taking in a lot of protein. Cycling protein is probably a good idea. There is still insufficient research to conclusively predict what protein intake is adequate for someone trying to build muscle. I never listen to things in magazines - if its not in a scientific study then its not been proved and its best to try it out for yourself and find what works best for you.

Some points to consider:

1. 'Today's protein is tomorrow's slow digesting carbs' (Paul Borresson)

2. Protein is more important when dieting than when bulking.

3. When trying to gain muscel, studies show that there should be a 3:1 ratio in favour of carbs over protein.

4. Not all carbs affect insulin levels significantly. Low glycemic carbs, for instance. So to say 'carbs jack insulin levels sky high' is a bit of a sweeping (and incorrect) accusation.

I've recently changed from a 40:40:10 diet (Protein:carbs:fat) whilst trying to cut up to a very clean 25:65:10 diet and have got very good results and felt healthier than I have done in a long time. I've also lifted heavier and dropped body fat percentage whilst gaining weight. Personally my take on the protein situation is that I go for about 1g per lb of bodyweight per day and I never take more than 45g in one sitting.

turbo

Sounds like im massively overeating then. As I definately eat more than 500cals per serving for most of my meals and am aiming at 3500calories a day.

My protien consumption varies throughout the day. Breakfast is probably 70g, mid morning snack is about 20g, lunch is 60g, mid afternoon snack is probably 20g, then evening shake is 100g. Evening meal might be as high as 100g, or as little as 30g. Add it all up and its somewhere between 300 and 370g a day, which is less than 2g per lb of my bodyweight.

So, less than 2g per lb bodyweight of protien & 3500cals for me.
I dont watch every thing I eat, and so have pizza`s and various other stuff. I also ensure I have plenty of veg etc.. to get a nice balanced meal.

I seem to be making progress. But, im always open to suggestions, so later on in the year might chop and change it. For all we know, Dorian Yates might only consume 100g of protien per day!

Greyphantom

Silent Bob... good point... I find that the higher protein diet works nicely for me... and I like Turbos approach too where you vary the amounts with each meal...