Molecular Nutrition XFactor - Page 4 - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w_llewellyn

I should have the time.. Shoot..

Okay - bearing in mind I know little about this supplement...

How would you describe its primary purpose as a supplement?

What do you beleive the most effect consumption level is and why?

What gains/sides were seen at the effective level, and and lower/higher levels?

Is this supplement something you take yourself?

How long would this supplement be used for?

What other supplements would aid/hinder the gains made with this supplement?

There was a statement made earlier about AA kills rabbits within 3 minutes of an injection. Is this true? If so why does this occur? What would happen if this supplement were to be injected in humans? Is this supplement only designed to be taken orally?

Am I right in thinking that Aspirin stops the function of AA?

Is there any truth in the fact that 12 Jumbo Egg Yolks contain the daily requirement for AA? (Thats badly phrases but you know what I mean)

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w_llewellyn

Funny you ask, because that has been our principle marketing strategy up to this point. The product really has been taking off due to word of mouth, not advertising.

I will need to check with the office/reps.. Maybe we can do something on this site along these lines. Being that most users are UK based we'd need to look into the logistics, however, so I can't make any promises..

Surely thats down to the insertion of the product in the book?

w_llewellyn · 28-12-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TH&S

Surely thats down to the insertion of the product in the book?

I could only hope ANABOLICS were so influential, as X-Factor FAR outsells the book.

w_llewellyn · 28-12-2007, 02:32 PM

How would you describe its primary purpose as a supplement?

Its primary purpose is to amplify the localized (tissue) response to training. It is generally taken to increase muscle mass, strength, and improve body composition (fat vs. lean mass).

What do you beleive the most effect consumption level is and why?

It works well in low doses, but the strongest anabolic effect seems to hit at about 750mg to 1gram per day..

What gains/sides were seen at the effective level, and and lower/higher levels?

At the peak level we generally see 1-2 pounds of lean mass gained per week.. 7-15 pounds per 50 day cycle.. 10 pounds give or take is very common provided everything else is in order. Sides at this dose are generally soreness (DOMS), oily skin (it slightly increases androgen sensitivity), and occasionally difficulty sleeping..

It works well at lower doses (250mg per day for example), but this is "supportive" range. You should notice few side effects, but gains will be slow, but progress should be steady.. This level is more "long term" use as opposed to short-term "rapid-anabolic" use.

We don't advise higher dose use, but safety studies showing no ill effects have gone up to 1.7grams per day.. People sometimes take 1,250 mg per day with no greater incidence of side effects.

Is this supplement something you take yourself?

Yes, but I am asthmatic and suffer from an inflammatory condition. I use it but need to be careful not to overuse it. I haven't had any problems with AA though..

How long would this supplement be used for?

I recommend 50 day cycles.. Maybe 8 weeks at most for high dose use.

What other supplements would aid/hinder the gains made with this supplement?

It is very versatile, as it amplifies the core physiological response to training. Many other supplements (NO, Creatine, test boosters, etc) feed off of this downstream..

It should not be taken with white willow bark, or any VERY potent cox inhibitor.

There was a statement made earlier about AA kills rabbits within 3 minutes of an injection. Is this true? If so why does this occur? What would happen if this supplement were to be injected in humans? Is this supplement only designed to be taken orally?

I don't know if it is true. I've never injected a human or rabbit with AA. I do know it is regarded as safe (see above, GRAS, safety data etc.), and have no concerns that it will harm any healthy individual that takes it. We only sell it for oral use. Note that AA is also commonly added to baby food.

Am I right in thinking that Aspirin stops the function of AA?

yes

Is there any truth in the fact that 12 Jumbo Egg Yolks contain the daily requirement for AA?

Yeah, I think it is about 13 regular whole white eggs. Not that this is actually the same thing - but does contain the stated amount of AA.

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 02:38 PM

What were the worst side effects found during the testing phase?

Is there any pre-existing conditions which would have a negative interaction with AA? And what are they? (I.e. Any Allergies, CV issues such as asthma etc etc)

Would you classify the gains made on this product as Solid, Short Term or Temporary?

What gains could a person expect to keep when they come off this product?

w_llewellyn · 28-12-2007, 02:46 PM

What were the worst side effects found during the testing phase?

Soreness.. Headache maybe.. The incidence of side effects is fairly low..

Is there any pre-existing conditions which would have a negative interaction with AA? And what are they? (I.e. Any Allergies, CV issues such as asthma etc etc)

If you have an inflammatory condition, the body may use the greater levels of AA to increases inflammation.. Any inflammatory condition could in theory be affected by this, so we recommend its not be used if you suffer from any inflammatory disease..

Would you classify the gains made on this product as Solid, Short Term or Temporary?

Very solid and long term. It is not like creatine, for example, that loads fluid in your tissues.

What gains could a person expect to keep when they come off this product?

Since there is no hormonal interruption there is no "post-cycle crash", and most of the gains made on AA are very well retained after its use has stopped..

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 02:49 PM

Very interesting...

Are you planning on sticking around the board? Or was it just a brief stop to defend your honour?

I know of a number of people who would be very keen to speak to you.

Truewarrior1 · 28-12-2007, 02:51 PM

i've been a member on bodybuilding.com for a long time as have you,i remember when it first came out certain people warning of the dangers,unfortunately i can't find the detailed thread on it i was looking for..but heres some stuff to think about.

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/bjrboss...-is-dangerous/
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1899111&page=2
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/...rostate_01.htm

Arachidonic acids are found primarily in fatty red meats, egg yolks and organ meats. This particular polyunsaturaed fat may be the most dangerous fat know when consumed in excess and is known as an Omega 6 fat. In fact, you can inject virtually every type of fat (even saturated fat and cholesterol) into rabbits and nothing happens. However, if you inject (AA) arachidonic acid into the same rabbits they are dead within three minutes. The human body needs "some" arachidonic acid, but too much can be toxic.

Abnormalities of arachidonic acid metabolism have been implicated in spasm and thrombosis of coronary arteries. Scientists in Japan investigated levels of arachidonic acid metabolites in patients with acute myocardial infarction.46 Plasma levels of thromboxane B2 and leukotriene B4 in systemic artery blood were significantly elevated during the acute stage of heart attack. These findings suggest that abnormalities of arachidonic acid metabolism accompany and may play a role in the pathogenesis of acute myocardial infarction.

yes ,very safe..

dmcc · 28-12-2007, 02:54 PM

Sounds like an interesting product indeed. Need a fat guy volunteer?

However, the sceptic in me would like to know: (1) has Baylor University received any payment or consideration from the manufacturer for its research; and (2) has the study been peer-reviewed?

Understand, I'm not suggesting anything dodgy - but instances of researchers being paid to generate the "right" result are documented.

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truewarrior1

Arachidonic acids are found primarily in fatty red meats, egg yolks and organ meats. This particular polyunsaturaed fat may be the most dangerous fat know when consumed in excess and is known as an Omega 6 fat. In fact, you can inject virtually every type of fat (even saturated fat and cholesterol) into rabbits and nothing happens. However, if you inject (AA) arachidonic acid into the same rabbits they are dead within three minutes. The human body needs "some" arachidonic acid, but too much can be toxic.

True - how much was injected into the Rabbits? Were human studies done? Were studies done on other animals?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truewarrior1

Abnormalities of arachidonic acid metabolism have been implicated in spasm and thrombosis of coronary arteries. Scientists in Japan investigated levels of arachidonic acid metabolites in patients with acute myocardial infarction.46 Plasma levels of thromboxane B2 and leukotriene B4 in systemic artery blood were significantly elevated during the acute stage of heart attack. These findings suggest that abnormalities of arachidonic acid metabolism accompany and may play a role in the pathogenesis of acute myocardial infarction.

yes ,very safe..

So where the AA is metabolised abnormally things can go wrong? And people who have had heart attacks due to restricted blood flow to the heart also shouldn't take any kind of imflammatory?

Truewarrior1 · 28-12-2007, 03:04 PM

Arachidonic Acid Causes Sudden Death in Rabbits
Melvin J. Silver 1, Willis Hoch 1, James J. Kocsis 1, Carol M. Ingerman 1, and J. Bryan Smith 1

1 Cardeza Foundation and Departments of Pharmacology and Pathology, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107

Injection of sodium arachidonate (1.4 milligrams per kilogram) into the marginal ear veins of rabbits caused death within 3 minutes. Histological examination showed platelet thrombi in the microvasculature of the lungs. Rabbits were protected from the lethal effects of arachidonic acid by pretreatment with aspirin. Fatty acids closely related to arachidonic acid did not cause death.

ALSO

Stroke in rats produced by carotid injection of sodium arachidonate
TW Furlow Jr and NH Bass

Unilateral cerebrovascular occlusion was produced in heparinized rats within 60 seconds after an injection of sodium arachidonate (in doses exceeding 0.45 milligram per kilogram) into the carotid artery. Electroencephalographic activity over the affected cerebral hemisphere was suppressed, and cerebral blood flow decreased by half. Microscopic examination revealed complete obstruction of the hemispheric microcirculation by platelet aggregates.

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truewarrior1

http://blog.bodybuilding.com/bjrboss...-is-dangerous/

^^^ He had a pre-existing Colon Ulcer which was made worse by taking an imflamatory drug...

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1899111&page=2

^^^ Perhaps the worlds most idiotic thread?

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/...rostate_01.htm

^^^ that one was more interesting, but I need time to re-read it.

True you've just fallen foul of beleiving internet hearsay.

I'm not tryign to defend AA as I know little about it, but what you've basically posted is the equivalent of the following:

"Steroids made me lose my hair, even though all the men on my moms side were bald by 30"

"Steroids gave me man boobs, and now no one loves me"

"Rockstar ate my hamster"

Truewarrior1 · 28-12-2007, 03:07 PM

i'm not saying it's unsafe,i'm saying it's unsafe for people with certain conditions,they may not even know they have the condition before they take it.i personally would never take it.i believe no human studies have been done with the injection route,and i imagine for good reason they probably never will be done.

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truewarrior1

Arachidonic Acid Causes Sudden Death in Rabbits
Melvin J. Silver 1, Willis Hoch 1, James J. Kocsis 1, Carol M. Ingerman 1, and J. Bryan Smith 1

1 Cardeza Foundation and Departments of Pharmacology and Pathology, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107

Injection of sodium arachidonate (1.4 milligrams per kilogram) into the marginal ear veins of rabbits caused death within 3 minutes. Histological examination showed platelet thrombi in the microvasculature of the lungs. Rabbits were protected from the lethal effects of arachidonic acid by pretreatment with aspirin. Fatty acids closely related to arachidonic acid did not cause death.

ALSO

Stroke in rats produced by carotid injection of sodium arachidonate
TW Furlow Jr and NH Bass

Unilateral cerebrovascular occlusion was produced in heparinized rats within 60 seconds after an injection of sodium arachidonate (in doses exceeding 0.45 milligram per kilogram) into the carotid artery. Electroencephalographic activity over the affected cerebral hemisphere was suppressed, and cerebral blood flow decreased by half. Microscopic examination revealed complete obstruction of the hemispheric microcirculation by platelet aggregates.

^^^ Those are more interesting.

Why was it being injected? Have you got the full papers or just the extracts True?

Then again injecting air is dangerous... Taken orally, air is fine...

TH&S · 28-12-2007, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truewarrior1

i'm not saying it's unsafe,i'm saying it's unsafe for people with certain conditions,they may not even know they have the condition before they take it.i personally would never take it.i believe no human studies have been done with the injection route,and i imagine for good reason they probably never will be done.

The same is true of alot of drugs, but perhaps not so of alot of supplements, which is interesting...

Bill - where do you stand on all these findings?

28-12-2007, 02:32 PM	#49 (permalink)
w_llewellyn Newbie Trainer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 36	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor How would you describe its primary purpose as a supplement? Its primary purpose is to amplify the localized (tissue) response to training. It is generally taken to increase muscle mass, strength, and improve body composition (fat vs. lean mass). What do you beleive the most effect consumption level is and why? It works well in low doses, but the strongest anabolic effect seems to hit at about 750mg to 1gram per day.. What gains/sides were seen at the effective level, and and lower/higher levels? At the peak level we generally see 1-2 pounds of lean mass gained per week.. 7-15 pounds per 50 day cycle.. 10 pounds give or take is very common provided everything else is in order. Sides at this dose are generally soreness (DOMS), oily skin (it slightly increases androgen sensitivity), and occasionally difficulty sleeping.. It works well at lower doses (250mg per day for example), but this is "supportive" range. You should notice few side effects, but gains will be slow, but progress should be steady.. This level is more "long term" use as opposed to short-term "rapid-anabolic" use. We don't advise higher dose use, but safety studies showing no ill effects have gone up to 1.7grams per day.. People sometimes take 1,250 mg per day with no greater incidence of side effects. Is this supplement something you take yourself? Yes, but I am asthmatic and suffer from an inflammatory condition. I use it but need to be careful not to overuse it. I haven't had any problems with AA though.. How long would this supplement be used for? I recommend 50 day cycles.. Maybe 8 weeks at most for high dose use. What other supplements would aid/hinder the gains made with this supplement? It is very versatile, as it amplifies the core physiological response to training. Many other supplements (NO, Creatine, test boosters, etc) feed off of this downstream.. It should not be taken with white willow bark, or any VERY potent cox inhibitor. There was a statement made earlier about AA kills rabbits within 3 minutes of an injection. Is this true? If so why does this occur? What would happen if this supplement were to be injected in humans? Is this supplement only designed to be taken orally? I don't know if it is true. I've never injected a human or rabbit with AA. I do know it is regarded as safe (see above, GRAS, safety data etc.), and have no concerns that it will harm any healthy individual that takes it. We only sell it for oral use. Note that AA is also commonly added to baby food. Am I right in thinking that Aspirin stops the function of AA? yes Is there any truth in the fact that 12 Jumbo Egg Yolks contain the daily requirement for AA? Yeah, I think it is about 13 regular whole white eggs. Not that this is actually the same thing - but does contain the stated amount of AA. Last edited by w_llewellyn; 28-12-2007 at 02:35 PM.

28-12-2007, 02:38 PM	#50 (permalink)
TH&S #1 Bob Nutcher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,261	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor What were the worst side effects found during the testing phase? Is there any pre-existing conditions which would have a negative interaction with AA? And what are they? (I.e. Any Allergies, CV issues such as asthma etc etc) Would you classify the gains made on this product as Solid, Short Term or Temporary? What gains could a person expect to keep when they come off this product? __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. \| To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. D: 220 \| B: 110 \| S: 170 \| Target: 550

28-12-2007, 02:46 PM	#51 (permalink)
w_llewellyn Newbie Trainer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 36	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor What were the worst side effects found during the testing phase? Soreness.. Headache maybe.. The incidence of side effects is fairly low.. Is there any pre-existing conditions which would have a negative interaction with AA? And what are they? (I.e. Any Allergies, CV issues such as asthma etc etc) If you have an inflammatory condition, the body may use the greater levels of AA to increases inflammation.. Any inflammatory condition could in theory be affected by this, so we recommend its not be used if you suffer from any inflammatory disease.. Would you classify the gains made on this product as Solid, Short Term or Temporary? Very solid and long term. It is not like creatine, for example, that loads fluid in your tissues. What gains could a person expect to keep when they come off this product? Since there is no hormonal interruption there is no "post-cycle crash", and most of the gains made on AA are very well retained after its use has stopped..

28-12-2007, 02:49 PM	#52 (permalink)
TH&S #1 Bob Nutcher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,261	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor Very interesting... Are you planning on sticking around the board? Or was it just a brief stop to defend your honour? I know of a number of people who would be very keen to speak to you. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. \| To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. D: 220 \| B: 110 \| S: 170 \| Target: 550

28-12-2007, 02:51 PM	#53 (permalink)
Truewarrior1 Hulking Out! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: london Posts: 1,767	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor i've been a member on bodybuilding.com for a long time as have you,i remember when it first came out certain people warning of the dangers,unfortunately i can't find the detailed thread on it i was looking for..but heres some stuff to think about. http://blog.bodybuilding.com/bjrboss...-is-dangerous/ http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1899111&page=2 http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/...rostate_01.htm Arachidonic acids are found primarily in fatty red meats, egg yolks and organ meats. This particular polyunsaturaed fat may be the most dangerous fat know when consumed in excess and is known as an Omega 6 fat. In fact, you can inject virtually every type of fat (even saturated fat and cholesterol) into rabbits and nothing happens. However, if you inject (AA) arachidonic acid into the same rabbits they are dead within three minutes. The human body needs "some" arachidonic acid, but too much can be toxic. Abnormalities of arachidonic acid metabolism have been implicated in spasm and thrombosis of coronary arteries. Scientists in Japan investigated levels of arachidonic acid metabolites in patients with acute myocardial infarction.46 Plasma levels of thromboxane B2 and leukotriene B4 in systemic artery blood were significantly elevated during the acute stage of heart attack. These findings suggest that abnormalities of arachidonic acid metabolism accompany and may play a role in the pathogenesis of acute myocardial infarction. yes ,very safe.. __________________ When You Dance With The Devil You Wait For The Song To Stop. Currently HULKING OUT!

28-12-2007, 02:54 PM	#54 (permalink)
dmcc Damn belly! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tooting Posts: 1,542	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor Sounds like an interesting product indeed. Need a fat guy volunteer? However, the sceptic in me would like to know: (1) has Baylor University received any payment or consideration from the manufacturer for its research; and (2) has the study been peer-reviewed? Understand, I'm not suggesting anything dodgy - but instances of researchers being paid to generate the "right" result are documented. __________________ Bitte beachten Sie beim einsteigen die Lücke zwischen Zug und Bahnsteigkante. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

28-12-2007, 03:04 PM	#56 (permalink)
Truewarrior1 Hulking Out! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: london Posts: 1,767	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor Arachidonic Acid Causes Sudden Death in Rabbits Melvin J. Silver 1, Willis Hoch 1, James J. Kocsis 1, Carol M. Ingerman 1, and J. Bryan Smith 1 1 Cardeza Foundation and Departments of Pharmacology and Pathology, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107 Injection of sodium arachidonate (1.4 milligrams per kilogram) into the marginal ear veins of rabbits caused death within 3 minutes. Histological examination showed platelet thrombi in the microvasculature of the lungs. Rabbits were protected from the lethal effects of arachidonic acid by pretreatment with aspirin. Fatty acids closely related to arachidonic acid did not cause death. ALSO Stroke in rats produced by carotid injection of sodium arachidonate TW Furlow Jr and NH Bass Unilateral cerebrovascular occlusion was produced in heparinized rats within 60 seconds after an injection of sodium arachidonate (in doses exceeding 0.45 milligram per kilogram) into the carotid artery. Electroencephalographic activity over the affected cerebral hemisphere was suppressed, and cerebral blood flow decreased by half. Microscopic examination revealed complete obstruction of the hemispheric microcirculation by platelet aggregates. __________________ When You Dance With The Devil You Wait For The Song To Stop. Currently HULKING OUT!

28-12-2007, 03:07 PM	#58 (permalink)
Truewarrior1 Hulking Out! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: london Posts: 1,767	Re: Molecular Nutrition XFactor i'm not saying it's unsafe,i'm saying it's unsafe for people with certain conditions,they may not even know they have the condition before they take it.i personally would never take it.i believe no human studies have been done with the injection route,and i imagine for good reason they probably never will be done. __________________ When You Dance With The Devil You Wait For The Song To Stop. Currently HULKING OUT!

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