XPS

Interesting read so far guys I will leave Molecular Nutrition XFactor.

What about Anabolic Xtreme Hyperdrol X2 and stacking it with Anabolic Xtreme Mass FX? I have heard of M1T's but heard they give you bitch tits???

thestudbeast

What about Anabolic Xtreme Hyperdrol X2? I've read it's effect comes from the ingrediant listed containing a pro hormone (patrick arnolds opinion I think) even though they claim it is'nt.

The only people claiming the active ingrediant in mass FX boosts test is the makers. It has stinging neetle extract in there which is good but the 25-diol thing your left to make up your own mind on.

Still I'm sure you can find some people that have used it to ask on the US forums.

For the pro hormone route I hear epistane seems to be rated well and on the non hormonal side either Diesel Test or Activate xtreme are good test boosters (used both), for what thats worth

hackskii

I was not denying that AA isnt used in muscle building process, that was never my arguement from a responce from resistance training elivates inflammation that is helpful in what it does.
Inflammation if excessive is counterproductive in recovery.

No offence mate, I do honor your words of wisdom but not all bodybuilders are on a low fat diet.
In fact low fat diets are not even healthy.
Not to mention the body is pretty efficient in making fat as much as it needs with the exception of EFA's.
That and the amount of meats we eat elivate AA in the body. I would bet money that the typical bodybuilder has too high of AA in the body.

Excess AA in the body is dangerous and produces zero health benefits.
Thanks Chefx.
Arachidonic acid - This particular polyunsaturaed fat may be the most dangerous fat know when consumed in excess and is known as an Omega 6 fat. In fact, you can inject virtually every type of fat (even saturated fat and cholesterol) into rabbits and nothing happens. However, if you inject (AA) arachidonic acid into the same rabbits they are dead within three minutes. The human body needs "some" arachidonic acid, but too much can be toxic.

Ironically, the higher your insulin levels, the more your body is stimulated to make increased levels of arachidonic acid. (AA) is a long-chain omega-6 fatty acid. Enchaned production of good eicosanoids requires the presence of EPA and DHA long chain "omega 3" fats, found in fish oil.

Snip from Dr. Sears:
DGLA is the building block of many of the "good" eicosanoids, whereas AA is the building block of "bad" eicosanoids. Thus excess amounts of AA can be one of your worst hormonal nightmares. Ultimately, it is the balance between DGLA and AA in every one of your 60 trillion cells that determines which types of eicosanoids you will produce. You need some AA to produce some "bad" eicosanoids, but in the case of excess production of AA, the balance of eicosanoids will shift toward accelerated aging and chronic disease.

Some of the Eicosanoids Derived from Arachidonic Acid

Arachidonic Acid (AA)

COX 5-LOX 12 and 15 LOX

PGH2 TXA2 LTB4 12-HETE Lipoxin

PGD2 PGI2
LTBC4 15-HETE
PGJ2 PGF2a PGE2
PGB2 LTBD4
PGA2
LTBE4

Many of these eicosanoids derived from arachidonic acid can be considered to be "bad" because they promote inflammation (PGE2 and LTB4) and decrease blood flow (TXA2). In addition, the inflammatory "bad" eicosanoids can also promote the release of other pro-inflammatory cytokines.

While there is bewildering complexity of eicosanoids from ararchidonic acid, there are a very limited number of eicosanoids that come from dihomo gamma linolenic acid (DGLA) as shown below


Taken from the Zone...interesting read.

In the Zone Diet, he explained the role of excess insulin in stimulating the production of too much arachidonic acid. In the Omega Rx Zone he expands considerably on this theme:

All carbohydrates, even complex carbohydrates, stimulate insulin release;
Insulin activates delta-5-desaturase, the enzyme that turns omega-6 fatty acids into arachidonic acid instead of into good eicosanoids;
Lower levels of good eicosanoids mean less oxygen delivery to cells and more inflammation;
More inflammation means more diseases such as multiple sclerosis, strokes, fibromyalgia, Alzheimer’s, arthritis, eczema and so on.
Other harmful effects of insulin are:

Insulin activates the critical enzyme responsible for making cholesterol in your liver;
Insulin encourages your metabolism to turn your calories into fat;
Insulin lowers your blood sugar and makes you crave carbohydrates;
Insulin has to be counteracted by the production of more glucagon and more cortisol, thus stressing your pancreas and adrenals;
Cortisol is released to counteract insulin but kills brain cells, especially in the hippocampus, which is your memory centre.
One of the best indicators that you are making too much insulin is that you have excess body fat around your middle. As Sears says “The hormonal consequences of a calorie of protein are different from those of a calorie of carbohydrate, which are different still from those of a calorie of fat. My dietary recommendations are based on hormonal thinking, whereas the USDA Food Pyramid… and many other medically endorsed diets are based on caloric thinking.”

Sears offers several techniques for insulin control.

Eat only the smallest amounts of those carbohydrates which raise your blood sugar quickly (see the book for more details);
Always balance carbohydrates with protein;
Always include fats in your meal, especially monounsaturated fat from olive oil;
Eat small, frequent meals;
Eat the vast majority of your carbohydrate in the form of vegetables – in fact 10-15 portions a day.
In the Omega Rx Zone Sears has a new, additional technique up his sleeve. Omega refers to omega 3 fats, which are those found in fish oil. Rx is shorthand for ‘recipe’. Sears has always known that the oils from oily fish are rich in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), which has two important benefits:

It can be directly made into good eicosanoids;
It inhibits the delta-5-desaturase enzyme that turns other oils into arachidonic acid;
The net effect is to significantly increase good eicosanoids and decrease bad ones.
Unfortunately research shows that fish oil supplements have only limited value in achieving these benefits. Sears has spent some years investigating the reasons for this. He now believes that excessive carbohydrate consumption (and consequent poor insulin control) has been responsible for partially counteracting the beneficial effects of fish oil supplements. He also believes that the products themselves have been less than perfect.

“Crude fish oil and cod liver oil should be considered the sewer of the sea,” says Sears. “Anything that is water-insoluble, such as PCBs, DDT and organic mercury compounds will be found in the crude oil.” He recommends only using products whose level of PCBs is guaranteed to be less than 10 parts per billion (ppb). And, he says, some products contain oils extracted from krill or tropical fish. These are relatively rich in arachidonic acid, which will definitely undo the benefits of consuming the oil.

Sears rejects health-food-grade fish oil in favour of a highly purified fish oil which he calls ‘pharmaceutical grade’. He claims that it takes 100 gallons of health-food-grade fish oil to make one gallon of pharmaceutical-grade fish oil. So far, the results he reports from testing the highly purified product look impressive. The book contains some really interesting case reports, including a rapid reversal of an advanced case of Alzheimer’s dementia.


Insulin activates delta-5-desaturase, the enzyme that turns omega-6 fatty acids into arachidonic acid instead of into good eicosanoids
As you can see above I seriously doubt bodybuilders are defficient in AA, when the body can produce it if need be. But why, we already get tons of it in our diets, too much actually.

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Scott


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thestudbeast

No offence taken, I learn a lot when we discuss things.

The thing is in my first post I said if your missing, egg yolks, liver, red meat and avoid refined oils other junk food you could end up too low in it, not that everyone will be, but quite a few following the low fat route which is still so popular. Having said this your body can produce it from other fatty acids so I can't be 100% sure you could go too low.

What sources do you think the typical bodybuilder gets his AA from? Red meat is low in AA (but contains it), only liver and egg yolks are high enough to match moleculars recomendations unless you resort to refined oils and then your out of the usual bodybuiling diet............ I hope!

Factory farmed fish being the odd one out - probably feed refined oils in there food.

As for the info on insulin, it just goes to show what a bad combo refined oils and sugar is but hopefully most bodybuilders diets will consist of low GI carbs and be low in damaged omega 6 fatty acids (unless I'm deluded on what people really eat!).

As for Chefx's comment, I've seen this arguement given before, problem is many things are toxic taken in excess and benificial in the right amounts. Paracetamol?

So hold on whats my point? I think we both agree that refined and processed oils and fats are a no no. I've learn't new horrors of spiking insulin (good job I limit carbs) but I still think not throwing away your egg yolks and adding in liver into the diet can be benificial and jmo of course healthy.

hackskii

AA is found in animal tissues, especially fish, eggs, liver, and brain.
But I dont know if your meat is like ours as Corn products are used as the prominent foodstuff in westernized livestock. Red meat, dairy, and pork products have a high AA content.
Again this might not apply to you guys in the UK, and to make matters worse our cattle are not range grazing animals, so the benefits of Omega 3's are lost.

Again, I love your posts bro, I find them insightful and stimulating, you got a good mind on your shoulders, I can see this.

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Truewarrior1

scott just posted all the stuff i knew but couldn't be bothered too :P

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XPS

any thoughts on these?

bigboy

Jungle Warefare by ALRI is supposed to be similar to X Factor isnt it?? know some people who have tried both and prefer Jungle Warefare.

thestudbeast

I see your point on what there feed, it makes sense as it happens with farmed fish. In the UK we really have a choice of meats to choose from. I normaly go with Argentinian beef and New Zealand lamb which are both free range, other wise it's pot luck. Most cattle in the UK will graze in the summer and be fed on silage in the winter. I have no real faith in UK meat but it's still a million times better than the hormone induced crap available in the US.

On a simmilar point the whey protein that adonis replaced was New Zealand whey and so from grass fed cows............ but it mixed poorly and so was dropped, myprotein did the same, shame.

Jungle warefare, the active ingrediant is a metabolite of ATD, they say it isn't androgenic and won't have the negative sides of ATD and still give a nice boost on your testosterone and lower oestrogen. Still if you search enough on anabolic minds you'll come across folks that have had blood tests done when on it. Guess what........... seems like it's suppresive after all. The supp industry is dying for an anabolic that does not shut you down, unfortunatly IMHO there is'nt one out yet.

hackskii

Well, that is the thing about the testosterone boosters, they might work for a while but not for very long.

I just read a huge article on low test levels and many men actually suffer from too much estrogen.
Im not saying to use an AI to lower testosterone and lower SHBG to bring about more free test, what I am saying is diet and lifestyle play huge rolls in test production.
For instance.
Bellyfat = more aromatase activity = more estrogen = less total testosterone and less free testosterone.
Eating less or removing bellyfat would solve this problem, again diet and lifestyle controlled.

Or alcohol will spike estrogen which in turn will lower testostereron temporarily.

Or, many of the over the counter drugs put a strain on the liver and this has the ability for the liver to not be able to remove estrogen from the body, hence elivating estrogen levels.

Sunlight for instance?
Summer months where we are in the sun, tend to be more pregnancys and elivated testosterone levels.
I think it was 128% for sun on the back and chest area was the boost in test levels.

Or deffiencies in zinc can lower testosterone levels (zinc is needed for test production and is a mild aromatase inhibitor).

Or low fat diets and low cholesterol diets can lower test production.

So, I really dont think it is a question of buying a product that will boost levels, it really is a diet and lifestyle where one can maximize ones own hormones, lowering estrogen (if it is high), elivating total testosterone and getting more free testosterone.
This benefits accross the board for health, fat loss, muscle gain, mental health, heart health (heart has the most androgen receptors in the body of any muscle), libido, etc.

Sadly the doctors treat symptoms and not causes, only a few actually know how to elivate naturally test levels, most have not been taught.

Let me give you a brief danger of low test levels and how serious it is.
For a man that has low testosterone levels and has erectile disfunction he has a 20 year life expectancy..........WOW..........Not good, and the quailty of that 20 years will degrade even further.
In fact low test levels are partially responsible for prostate issues.

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Scott


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thestudbeast

The best herbal test boosters available today work for about 28-35 days. It's not long enough to make noticable gains but can help out with libido and sexual health issues (and keep sex drive up during PCT). Totally agree though diet and lifestyle play much more of a role than any supp in test levels.

Con

Meh......i got the same thing from gaspari called halodrols the new ones.
Did i notice any thing?Perhaps my side of my stomach hurt a bit perhaps it was due to this perhaps not i got bored after a couple of weeks and it went in my drawer of supplument rejects

ah24

Haven't read the whole post except one of Hack's post's about the AA...

Article from MD this month;

ah24

Anything ground-breaking in there?

Tinytom

I used this a year ago.

Most of the scare stories regarding the negative impact are not founded. They are OK in theory but there's been separate studies shown that the highest dose does not negatively impact the body in the short term while using.

I had my cholesterol and bloods checked after I used it (before I did a gear cycle) and there was no causes for concern.

As for results. I did get the sorenss in the muscles and I did see some improvement but not masses. I think if you combined this with IGF then you'd get a much better result as AA increases the IGF sensitivity (apparently)

Overall I had a moderate response.

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