amino's - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

J_D · 20-01-2007, 08:00 PM

whens the best time to have them

it says 8-12tablets a day, with taking them servral times a day, so when shud i take them.

cheers

genesis · 21-01-2007, 10:50 AM

Antime you want mate, if your having a meal thats not very high in protein, have a handfull of aminos, to boost your protein intake, amino acids are just protein tablets and should be looked at as an addition to your protein supplementation, i usually have 3 protein shakes a day, with 3 or 4 high protein meals so i dont feel like i need to take additional aminos, if your not having that many protein meals then take a handful of aminos a few times daily, its worth noting that aminos acids usually are around 1000mg per tablets which is a gram of protein, so to get the equvalent of protein shake you will need to take 25-30 tablets!

Nine Pack · 21-01-2007, 11:03 AM

Very sound advice there genesis. They also are of use if you regularly eat a protein that is either not quite perfect, or difficult to digest, like tuna. Vegetarians would benefit hugely from taking these as the grains, beans & pulses that predominate thier diets may contain some protein, however they are usually defficient in some of the essential amino acids. This is of course providing there are no ingredients in the tabs that are allowable to a vegetarian.

SportDr · 21-01-2007, 11:05 AM

Depends on the Amino's your are taking. BCAA's are best taken before and after training on an empty stomach.

EAA's are best taken with or between meals, either to boost the protein content (although this will require many) or just to improve the amino profile of the food.

I eat some vegetarian food to complement my diet, such as Tofu, I take 5-6 EAA's with these meals to ensure I have a full spectrum.

Don't worry too much, the body can make most Amino's it needs, so there isn't much need to supplement them.

SD

Nine Pack · 21-01-2007, 11:10 AM

There was an interesting article on soya based products a while ago in Body Fitness magazine. It made me think twice about using anything containing soya. I'll see if I can dig it out.

SportDr · 21-01-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Pack

There was an interesting article on soya based products a while ago in Boy Fitness magazine. It made me think twice about using anything containing soya. I'll see if I can dig it out.

The research that I have done shows that Soya based product contain more Isoflavones than any other food item. It also contains more Phyto Eostrogens than any other food item, so must be taken in moderation.

The books I am reading reccomend no more than 12oz or 300g per day of Tofu for this reason.

I have done this for a few weeks now with no problems, eating Tofu 1x per day, then eggs and milk for my remaining meals. I eat meat no more than 4 times (meals) per week.

Soya is cheaper than meat, cleaner than meat, has less health consequences than meat, doesn't taste as good tho!

With the potential problems that Phyto-Eostrogens can cause, I think they are outweighed by the benefit of such a clean concentrated source of Isoflavones which is high in Protein.

Also....Soya protein was used for years by Bodybuilders before Whey came along!

SD

Nine Pack · 21-01-2007, 11:29 AM

I'll dig the article out. The health claims of soya are actually blown out of the water once you understand what processing has to be undertaken to get the soya anywhere near edible. In it's unmolested form, yes, it does have a lot of potential, but once it's made edible it contains more downsides than you would ever realise. Some things we were never meant to eat. I believe that if nature makes something so difficult to make edible, then there is a damn good reason for it.

Now then, where's that wasp & boxed jellyfish omelette I made earlier...............

SportDr · 21-01-2007, 12:31 PM

lol, sounds like a wholesome omlette ninepack

.

My Tofu and Soya milk are from Organic sources, with nothing more added t them than Calcium. It is recommended by leading holistic nutritionists who abhore additives and processing, so I am sure whatever you read doesn't apply to organic soya at least.

See if you can dig the article out.

SD

Nine Pack · 21-01-2007, 03:35 PM

I fear it may still apply as even organic soya will have to be processed in the same way even if it was grown without fertilizers & pesticides. The article suggested that soya was one of the biggest 'health food' cons in the industry with a lot of the health benefit facts being twisted as it's only the raw, inedible form that has the goodies. The processing turns it into something far more sinister. I'm digging through piles of these mags and will start a new thread as this one seems to be veering off topic a bit.

The omelette was disappointing, what with the paralysis & anaphalactic shock (spelling?)!!

**Tinytom** · 21-01-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Pack

There was an interesting article on soya based products a while ago in Boy Fitness magazine.

LMAO

You've been raiding PScarbs 'secret library' havent you mate.

Nine Pack · 21-01-2007, 03:49 PM

Oh crap, did'nt notice that typo. I meant Body Fitness!!

Nine Pack · 22-01-2007, 03:39 PM

I can't seem to start a new thread so I'm tagging onto this one. It tells me there are 75 images on the document, but I can't see how, it's just text. Anyway, here's the soya thing I was talking about, it's a long one, but very interesting so please take the time.

Soya – Some facts you may not know…

Below are excerpts from an article that I read in Bodyfitness Magazine from November 2006. It was written by Negrita Jayde, an IFBB Pro & expert on high performance nutrition. It made me seriously question the alleged health benefits of all foods containing soya. I have simply left out the parts where she repeats herself, as she does so a lot, to keep the article at a readable length.

The history of soya is interesting. It comes from the orient, & during the Chou Dynasty (1134-246 BC) the soya bean was declared one of the sacred grains, along with barley, wheat, millet & rice. However, in texts about agriculture of the time, soya is frequently used as a plant used in the rotation of crops and was apparently initially used for fixing nitrogen.

It was not until fermentation techniques were discovered later during the Chou Dynasty that it was used as a food, and thus the first soya products were fermented ones like Tempeh, Natto, Miso & Shoyu (soya sauce). Later, perhaps in the 2nd century BC Chinese scientists discovered that a puree of cooked soya could be precipitated with calcium sulphate (plaster of Paris or Epsom salts) to make a smooth pale curd – tofu, or bean curd.

Although the more flavoursome products awoke greater interest from scientists & gastronomes, the precipitated ones have been used more frequently.

The Chinese ate less soya than other legumes as it contains great quantities of harmful substances. The most significant are the enzyme inhibitors which block the action of trypsin & other enzymes necessary for the digestion of protein. These ‘anti – nutrients’ are not completely neutralised during cooking & can cause serious gastric problems, chronic deficiencies in amino acid absorption & reduced protein digestion. In animal tests, trypsin inhibitors provoked swelling & disease of the pancreas, including cancer. Soya beans also contain hemaglutinin, a clot promoting substance that causes red blood cells to clump together.
Trypsin inhibitors & hemaglutinin have been identified as growth diminishing substances. Luckily, they are eliminated during fermentation. The precipitated products however, the inhibitors are more concentrated in the liquid that is left behind than in the curd, so in tofu & bean curd, they are reduced, but not eliminated.
Soya also contains phytic acid, or phytates. This blocks intestinal absorption of essential minerals like calcium, magnesium, iron and especially zinc. A diet rich in phytates is one of the contributing factors in the increase of mineral deficiency in third world countries.
Soya has a phytate content higher than any other grain or legume studied and furthermore it is very resistant to methods of elimination, like long, slow cooking. Only a long period of fermentation leads to a significant reduction. Thus the fermented products like Tempeh, Natto, Miso & Shoyu provide easily assimilated nutrients, but the precipitated ones like tofu, or bean curd which are high in phytates remains questionable.
Vegetarians who regularly eat these products in place of meat & dairy run the risk of suffering mineral deficiencies. The consequences of calcium, magnesium & iron deficiency is well known, but less so of zinc. Zinc is called the intelligence mineral as it is necessary for the optimal development of the brain & nervous system. It plays important roles in the in protein synthesis & the formation of collagen. It is also involved in blood sugar control & the reproductive system. Literature on soya tends to play down the importance of minerals in human physiology whilst concealing the harmful effects of phytic acid.

The soya industry has searched for ways to market the excess of this grain & many products are available. One of the most popular is soya milk. The production of soya milk is quite simple. To reduce the trypsin inhibitors as much as possible, the beans are bathed in an alkaline solution. The purified solution is then heated to 115 degrees C under pressure. This destroys most, but not all, of the anti nutrients, but has the secondary effect of de-naturising the proteins which are difficult to digest & less effective. The phytate content remains in the milk & blocks mineral absorption. Furthermore, the alkaline solution produces a carcinogen, lysinealine, & reduces the content of cystine. The lack of cystine, means that the protein content of soya is useless unless eaten with cystine rich foods like dairy products.

The majority of products that imitate traditional foods like infant formulas & some brands of milk are made with soya protein isolate. This involves isolating the protein from the carbohydrates & fatty acids in the beans. The seeds are ground & subject to a high temperature oil extracting process. Then it’s mixed with an alkaline solution & sugars to extract the fibre. The remainder is filtered & separated in an acid bath. Finally, the paste is neutralised in an alkaline solution & dehydrated at high temperatures to produce a protein rich powder.

Soya protein is a refined product in which the quality of the nutrients is doubtful and it still contains trypsin inhibitors even after so much manipulation. The concentration of these can increase five times in soya protein isolate.
Manufacturers are not legally obliged to disclose the quantity of inhibitors on the label or comply with any regulated standard.

The aluminium content of soya is also ten times higher than that of dairy products, and one hundred times more than unprocessed milk. Aluminium is toxic to the liver in children, and is liked to Alzheimer’s disease in adults.

Soya also lacks cholesterol, which despite popular misconception, is vital for the development of the brain & nervous system. It lacks lactose which is also used for the same function.

Nitrosamines, which are potent carcinogens tend to appear in soya products & increase in concentration during the high temperature dehydration process.

The latest adulteration to the soya bean is high temperature, high pressure extrusion processing of soya protein isolate to produce textured soya protein. These products are usually high in MSG to hide the soya bean taste & impart the flavour of meat.

These products impede the absorption of zinc & in test animals, have caused the enlargement of organs, particularly the thyroid & pancreas & increased deposition of fatty acids in the liver.
Tests aimed at determining the cholesterol lowering properties of soya have not proved effective, but it is still promoted as having beneficial effects on cholesterol levels.

Does it prevent or provoke cancer? The soya industry boasts of it’s action against cancer. Isoflavone aglycones are anti carcinogenic substances found in traditional fermented soya products; however they are not present in any other form of soya product. They are present in these foods however, in the form called beta glycoside conjugates which lack these beneficial effects.

The omega 3 in soya is much higher than other legumes, but they are subject to rancidity when subject to high pressure & temperature. This is exactly what is required to get the oil from the beans in the first place as it is very difficult to extract. Hexane, & other solvents are used to extract the oil & there is always some residue in the commercialised product.

Like all legumes, soya lacks the sulphur containing amino acids cystine & methionine so soya should not be considered a substitute for products like meat & milk.

Claims that fermented soya products are rich in vitamin B12 have not been scientifically corroborated. Also, soya does not contain liposoluble vitamins D & A which act as catalysts to the absorption & use of all hydro soluble vitamins in the diet. These active liposolubles are only found in certain animal products, like organ meats, butter, eggs, fish & shellfish.

Finally, fermented soya may be easily digested, but the rest, with phytates & enzyme inhibitors, rancid fatty acids & altered protein are certainly not.

I would have to advise completely against the use of soya products.

To quote myself from earlier: I believe that if nature makes something so difficult to make edible, then there is a damn good reason for it.

SportDr · 23-01-2007, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nine Pack

I can't seem to start a new thread so I'm tagging onto this one. It tells me there are 75 images on the document, but I can't see how, it's just text. Anyway, here's the soya thing I was talking about, it's a long one, but very interesting so please take the time.

Soya – Some facts you may not know…

Below are excerpts from an article that I read in Bodyfitness Magazine from November 2006. It was written by Negrita Jayde, an IFBB Pro & expert on high performance nutrition. It made me seriously question the alleged health benefits of all foods containing soya. I have simply left out the parts where she repeats herself, as she does so a lot, to keep the article at a readable length.

The history of soya is interesting. It comes from the orient, & during the Chou Dynasty (1134-246 BC) the soya bean was declared one of the sacred grains, along with barley, wheat, millet & rice. However, in texts about agriculture of the time, soya is frequently used as a plant used in the rotation of crops and was apparently initially used for fixing nitrogen.

It was not until fermentation techniques were discovered later during the Chou Dynasty that it was used as a food, and thus the first soya products were fermented ones like Tempeh, Natto, Miso & Shoyu (soya sauce). Later, perhaps in the 2nd century BC Chinese scientists discovered that a puree of cooked soya could be precipitated with calcium sulphate (plaster of Paris or Epsom salts) to make a smooth pale curd – tofu, or bean curd.

Although the more flavoursome products awoke greater interest from scientists & gastronomes, the precipitated ones have been used more frequently.

The Chinese ate less soya than other legumes as it contains great quantities of harmful substances. The most significant are the enzyme inhibitors which block the action of trypsin & other enzymes necessary for the digestion of protein. These ‘anti – nutrients’ are not completely neutralised during cooking & can cause serious gastric problems, chronic deficiencies in amino acid absorption & reduced protein digestion. In animal tests, trypsin inhibitors provoked swelling & disease of the pancreas, including cancer. Soya beans also contain hemaglutinin, a clot promoting substance that causes red blood cells to clump together.
Trypsin inhibitors & hemaglutinin have been identified as growth diminishing substances. Luckily, they are eliminated during fermentation. The precipitated products however, the inhibitors are more concentrated in the liquid that is left behind than in the curd, so in tofu & bean curd, they are reduced, but not eliminated.
Soya also contains phytic acid, or phytates. This blocks intestinal absorption of essential minerals like calcium, magnesium, iron and especially zinc. A diet rich in phytates is one of the contributing factors in the increase of mineral deficiency in third world countries.
Soya has a phytate content higher than any other grain or legume studied and furthermore it is very resistant to methods of elimination, like long, slow cooking. Only a long period of fermentation leads to a significant reduction. Thus the fermented products like Tempeh, Natto, Miso & Shoyu provide easily assimilated nutrients, but the precipitated ones like tofu, or bean curd which are high in phytates remains questionable. Phytates are common in all whole grains, bran in particular but it hasn't stopped anyone eating them?
Vegetarians who regularly eat these products in place of meat & dairy run the risk of suffering mineral deficiencies. The consequences of calcium, magnesium & iron deficiency is well known, but less so of zinc. Zinc is called the intelligence mineral as it is necessary for the optimal development of the brain & nervous system. It plays important roles in the in protein synthesis & the formation of collagen. It is also involved in blood sugar control & the reproductive system. Literature on soya tends to play down the importance of minerals in human physiology whilst concealing the harmful effects of phytic acid. But would supplementation of these minerals away from soya meals replace what has been lost? Also any high Protein diet especially from meat which is an acid forming food, will cause de-calcification also see calcium dillema thread, whats the answer? eat no proteins at all??

The soya industry has searched for ways to market the excess of this grain & many products are available. One of the most popular is soya milk. The production of soya milk is quite simple. To reduce the trypsin inhibitors as much as possible, the beans are bathed in an alkaline solution. The purified solution is then heated to 115 degrees C under pressure. This destroys most, but not all, of the anti nutrients, but has the secondary effect of de-naturising the proteins which are difficult to digest & less effective. The phytate content remains in the milk & blocks mineral absorption. Furthermore, the alkaline solution produces a carcinogen, lysinealine, & reduces the content of cystine. The lack of cystine, means that the protein content of soya is useless unless eaten with cystine rich foods like dairy products. Then why aren't millions of Japanese seriously ill? and why is the incidence of cancer lower in Japan than here?

The majority of products that imitate traditional foods like infant formulas & some brands of milk are made with soya protein isolate. This involves isolating the protein from the carbohydrates & fatty acids in the beans. The seeds are ground & subject to a high temperature oil extracting process. Then it’s mixed with an alkaline solution & sugars to extract the fibre. The remainder is filtered & separated in an acid bath. Finally, the paste is neutralised in an alkaline solution & dehydrated at high temperatures to produce a protein rich powder. This is Calcium and adds Calcium to the final product despite what the author said at the start.

Soya protein is a refined product in which the quality of the nutrients is doubtful and it still contains trypsin inhibitors even after so much manipulation. The concentration of these can increase five times in soya protein isolate.
Manufacturers are not legally obliged to disclose the quantity of inhibitors on the label or comply with any regulated standard.

The aluminium content of soya is also ten times higher than that of dairy products, and one hundred times more than unprocessed milk. Aluminium is toxic to the liver in children, and is liked to Alzheimer’s disease in adults. MOst deodorants use Aluminium, if it was that bad wouldn't it e banned?

Soya also lacks cholesterol, which despite popular misconception, is vital for the development of the brain & nervous system. It lacks lactose which is also used for the same function.

Nitrosamines, which are potent carcinogens tend to appear in soya products & increase in concentration during the high temperature dehydration process.

The latest adulteration to the soya bean is high temperature, high pressure extrusion processing of soya protein isolate to produce textured soya protein. These products are usually high in MSG to hide the soya bean taste & impart the flavour of meat.

These products impede the absorption of zinc & in test animals, have caused the enlargement of organs, particularly the thyroid & pancreas & increased deposition of fatty acids in the liver.
Tests aimed at determining the cholesterol lowering properties of soya have not proved effective, but it is still promoted as having beneficial effects on cholesterol levels.

Does it prevent or provoke cancer? The soya industry boasts of it’s action against cancer. Isoflavone aglycones are anti carcinogenic substances found in traditional fermented soya products; however they are not present in any other form of soya product. They are present in these foods however, in the form called beta glycoside conjugates which lack these beneficial effects.

The omega 3 in soya is much higher than other legumes, but they are subject to rancidity when subject to high pressure & temperature. This is exactly what is required to get the oil from the beans in the first place as it is very difficult to extract. Hexane, & other solvents are used to extract the oil & there is always some residue in the commercialised product.

Like all legumes, soya lacks the sulphur containing amino acids cystine & methionine so soya should not be considered a substitute for products like meat & milk.

Claims that fermented soya products are rich in vitamin B12 have not been scientifically corroborated. Also, soya does not contain liposoluble vitamins D & A which act as catalysts to the absorption & use of all hydro soluble vitamins in the diet. These active liposolubles are only found in certain animal products, like organ meats, butter, eggs, fish & shellfish.

Finally, fermented soya may be easily digested, but the rest, with phytates & enzyme inhibitors, rancid fatty acids & altered protein are certainly not.

I would have to advise completely against the use of soya products.

To quote myself from earlier: I believe that if nature makes something so difficult to make edible, then there is a damn good reason for it.

Hmm very interesting article, but if any of what she said was true to the extent that she portrayed it then it would have major health consequences in Asia, which it doesn't. If it was so denatured and contained enzyme inhibitors then why does it not give me any digestion problems cramps/bloating/wind/indigestion. If it was so filled with carcinogens then why do Japanese people have such low incidence of cancer, when they eat it all the time? If it was so unhealthy, then why would the two leading holistic nutritionists I have books for, recommend it so highly? This debate needs more research, but I need to go to work right now!

Regards

SD

Nine Pack · 23-01-2007, 10:06 AM

I don't pretend to be an expert on soya, which is why I used the article above, but it does seem to me that a product that has to undergo such intensive processing & potentially has so many downsides should definetely not form part of a bodybuilding diet.

To address some of your questions though as best I can:
Q: ''Phytates are common in all whole grains, bran in particular but it hasn't stopped anyone eating them?''
A: They may well be, but in far lower concentrations than in soya. Why deliberately consume more than you have to?

Q:If it was so denatured and contained enzyme inhibitors then why does it not give me any digestion problems cramps/bloating/wind/indigestion?
A: Just because you personally don't experience crams & bloating, this is not proof positive that you have digested the protein properly. I suffered chronic bloating, wind & other unpleasantness when I used soya milk last year before reading the article.

Q: Then why aren't millions of Japanese seriously ill? and why is the incidence of cancer lower in Japan than here?
A: The Japanese eat masses of fresh fish & seafood wich goes a long way to counteract some of the effects from soya.

Q: Most deodoran

20-01-2007, 08:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
J_D Newbie Trainer Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: stockport, manchester Posts: 46	amino's whens the best time to have them it says 8-12tablets a day, with taking them servral times a day, so when shud i take them. cheers

21-01-2007, 10:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
genesis aka Marc Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Liverpool Posts: 1,384	Re: amino's Antime you want mate, if your having a meal thats not very high in protein, have a handfull of aminos, to boost your protein intake, amino acids are just protein tablets and should be looked at as an addition to your protein supplementation, i usually have 3 protein shakes a day, with 3 or 4 high protein meals so i dont feel like i need to take additional aminos, if your not having that many protein meals then take a handful of aminos a few times daily, its worth noting that aminos acids usually are around 1000mg per tablets which is a gram of protein, so to get the equvalent of protein shake you will need to take 25-30 tablets!

21-01-2007, 11:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,632	Re: amino's Very sound advice there genesis. They also are of use if you regularly eat a protein that is either not quite perfect, or difficult to digest, like tuna. Vegetarians would benefit hugely from taking these as the grains, beans & pulses that predominate thier diets may contain some protein, however they are usually defficient in some of the essential amino acids. This is of course providing there are no ingredients in the tabs that are allowable to a vegetarian. Last edited by Nine Pack; 21-01-2007 at 11:03 AM. Reason: typo

21-01-2007, 11:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
SportDr Getting HUGE! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: E-Sussex UK Posts: 2,623	Re: amino's Depends on the Amino's your are taking. BCAA's are best taken before and after training on an empty stomach. EAA's are best taken with or between meals, either to boost the protein content (although this will require many) or just to improve the amino profile of the food. I eat some vegetarian food to complement my diet, such as Tofu, I take 5-6 EAA's with these meals to ensure I have a full spectrum. Don't worry too much, the body can make most Amino's it needs, so there isn't much need to supplement them. SD __________________ I don't like Sports and I am not a Doctor! You expressed and challenged yourself, startled the dozing muscles and welcomed the sweet pain of gain. Boredom begets mediocrity. Enemies both, they deserve swift eradication. Let's hit the weights and build some muscle. Race ya to the bench press. Dave Draper A goal casually set and lightly taken will be freely abandoned at the first obstacle. Zig Ziglar Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner. Use this My Protein refferer code and get a 5% DISCOUNT on your first order! MP2819

21-01-2007, 11:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,632	Re: amino's There was an interesting article on soya based products a while ago in Body Fitness magazine. It made me think twice about using anything containing soya. I'll see if I can dig it out. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam Savage. Last edited by Nine Pack; 21-01-2007 at 03:50 PM. Reason: embarrasing typo

21-01-2007, 11:29 AM	#7 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,632	Re: amino's I'll dig the article out. The health claims of soya are actually blown out of the water once you understand what processing has to be undertaken to get the soya anywhere near edible. In it's unmolested form, yes, it does have a lot of potential, but once it's made edible it contains more downsides than you would ever realise. Some things we were never meant to eat. I believe that if nature makes something so difficult to make edible, then there is a damn good reason for it. Now then, where's that wasp & boxed jellyfish omelette I made earlier............... __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam Savage.

21-01-2007, 12:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
SportDr Getting HUGE! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: E-Sussex UK Posts: 2,623	Re: amino's lol, sounds like a wholesome omlette ninepack . My Tofu and Soya milk are from Organic sources, with nothing more added t them than Calcium. It is recommended by leading holistic nutritionists who abhore additives and processing, so I am sure whatever you read doesn't apply to organic soya at least. See if you can dig the article out. SD __________________ I don't like Sports and I am not a Doctor! You expressed and challenged yourself, startled the dozing muscles and welcomed the sweet pain of gain. Boredom begets mediocrity. Enemies both, they deserve swift eradication. Let's hit the weights and build some muscle. Race ya to the bench press. Dave Draper A goal casually set and lightly taken will be freely abandoned at the first obstacle. Zig Ziglar Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner. Use this My Protein refferer code and get a 5% DISCOUNT on your first order! MP2819

21-01-2007, 03:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,632	Re: amino's I fear it may still apply as even organic soya will have to be processed in the same way even if it was grown without fertilizers & pesticides. The article suggested that soya was one of the biggest 'health food' cons in the industry with a lot of the health benefit facts being twisted as it's only the raw, inedible form that has the goodies. The processing turns it into something far more sinister. I'm digging through piles of these mags and will start a new thread as this one seems to be veering off topic a bit. The omelette was disappointing, what with the paralysis & anaphalactic shock (spelling?)!! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam Savage.

21-01-2007, 03:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,632	Re: amino's Oh crap, did'nt notice that typo. I meant Body Fitness!! __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam Savage.

22-01-2007, 03:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Nine Pack Shouldn't be let out loose.... Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,632	Re: amino's I can't seem to start a new thread so I'm tagging onto this one. It tells me there are 75 images on the document, but I can't see how, it's just text. Anyway, here's the soya thing I was talking about, it's a long one, but very interesting so please take the time. Soya – Some facts you may not know… Below are excerpts from an article that I read in Bodyfitness Magazine from November 2006. It was written by Negrita Jayde, an IFBB Pro & expert on high performance nutrition. It made me seriously question the alleged health benefits of all foods containing soya. I have simply left out the parts where she repeats herself, as she does so a lot, to keep the article at a readable length. The history of soya is interesting. It comes from the orient, & during the Chou Dynasty (1134-246 BC) the soya bean was declared one of the sacred grains, along with barley, wheat, millet & rice. However, in texts about agriculture of the time, soya is frequently used as a plant used in the rotation of crops and was apparently initially used for fixing nitrogen. It was not until fermentation techniques were discovered later during the Chou Dynasty that it was used as a food, and thus the first soya products were fermented ones like Tempeh, Natto, Miso & Shoyu (soya sauce). Later, perhaps in the 2nd century BC Chinese scientists discovered that a puree of cooked soya could be precipitated with calcium sulphate (plaster of Paris or Epsom salts) to make a smooth pale curd – tofu, or bean curd. Although the more flavoursome products awoke greater interest from scientists & gastronomes, the precipitated ones have been used more frequently. The Chinese ate less soya than other legumes as it contains great quantities of harmful substances. The most significant are the enzyme inhibitors which block the action of trypsin & other enzymes necessary for the digestion of protein. These ‘anti – nutrients’ are not completely neutralised during cooking & can cause serious gastric problems, chronic deficiencies in amino acid absorption & reduced protein digestion. In animal tests, trypsin inhibitors provoked swelling & disease of the pancreas, including cancer. Soya beans also contain hemaglutinin, a clot promoting substance that causes red blood cells to clump together. Trypsin inhibitors & hemaglutinin have been identified as growth diminishing substances. Luckily, they are eliminated during fermentation. The precipitated products however, the inhibitors are more concentrated in the liquid that is left behind than in the curd, so in tofu & bean curd, they are reduced, but not eliminated. Soya also contains phytic acid, or phytates. This blocks intestinal absorption of essential minerals like calcium, magnesium, iron and especially zinc. A diet rich in phytates is one of the contributing factors in the increase of mineral deficiency in third world countries. Soya has a phytate content higher than any other grain or legume studied and furthermore it is very resistant to methods of elimination, like long, slow cooking. Only a long period of fermentation leads to a significant reduction. Thus the fermented products like Tempeh, Natto, Miso & Shoyu provide easily assimilated nutrients, but the precipitated ones like tofu, or bean curd which are high in phytates remains questionable. Vegetarians who regularly eat these products in place of meat & dairy run the risk of suffering mineral deficiencies. The consequences of calcium, magnesium & iron deficiency is well known, but less so of zinc. Zinc is called the intelligence mineral as it is necessary for the optimal development of the brain & nervous system. It plays important roles in the in protein synthesis & the formation of collagen. It is also involved in blood sugar control & the reproductive system. Literature on soya tends to play down the importance of minerals in human physiology whilst concealing the harmful effects of phytic acid. The soya industry has searched for ways to market the excess of this grain & many products are available. One of the most popular is soya milk. The production of soya milk is quite simple. To reduce the trypsin inhibitors as much as possible, the beans are bathed in an alkaline solution. The purified solution is then heated to 115 degrees C under pressure. This destroys most, but not all, of the anti nutrients, but has the secondary effect of de-naturising the proteins which are difficult to digest & less effective. The phytate content remains in the milk & blocks mineral absorption. Furthermore, the alkaline solution produces a carcinogen, lysinealine, & reduces the content of cystine. The lack of cystine, means that the protein content of soya is useless unless eaten with cystine rich foods like dairy products. The majority of products that imitate traditional foods like infant formulas & some brands of milk are made with soya protein isolate. This involves isolating the protein from the carbohydrates & fatty acids in the beans. The seeds are ground & subject to a high temperature oil extracting process. Then it’s mixed with an alkaline solution & sugars to extract the fibre. The remainder is filtered & separated in an acid bath. Finally, the paste is neutralised in an alkaline solution & dehydrated at high temperatures to produce a protein rich powder. Soya protein is a refined product in which the quality of the nutrients is doubtful and it still contains trypsin inhibitors even after so much manipulation. The concentration of these can increase five times in soya protein isolate. Manufacturers are not legally obliged to disclose the quantity of inhibitors on the label or comply with any regulated standard. The aluminium content of soya is also ten times higher than that of dairy products, and one hundred times more than unprocessed milk. Aluminium is toxic to the liver in children, and is liked to Alzheimer’s disease in adults. Soya also lacks cholesterol, which despite popular misconception, is vital for the development of the brain & nervous system. It lacks lactose which is also used for the same function. Nitrosamines, which are potent carcinogens tend to appear in soya products & increase in concentration during the high temperature dehydration process. The latest adulteration to the soya bean is high temperature, high pressure extrusion processing of soya protein isolate to produce textured soya protein. These products are usually high in MSG to hide the soya bean taste & impart the flavour of meat. These products impede the absorption of zinc & in test animals, have caused the enlargement of organs, particularly the thyroid & pancreas & increased deposition of fatty acids in the liver. Tests aimed at determining the cholesterol lowering properties of soya have not proved effective, but it is still promoted as having beneficial effects on cholesterol levels. Does it prevent or provoke cancer? The soya industry boasts of it’s action against cancer. Isoflavone aglycones are anti carcinogenic substances found in traditional fermented soya products; however they are not present in any other form of soya product. They are present in these foods however, in the form called beta glycoside conjugates which lack these beneficial effects. The omega 3 in soya is much higher than other legumes, but they are subject to rancidity when subject to high pressure & temperature. This is exactly what is required to get the oil from the beans in the first place as it is very difficult to extract. Hexane, & other solvents are used to extract the oil & there is always some residue in the commercialised product. Like all legumes, soya lacks the sulphur containing amino acids cystine & methionine so soya should not be considered a substitute for products like meat & milk. Claims that fermented soya products are rich in vitamin B12 have not been scientifically corroborated. Also, soya does not contain liposoluble vitamins D & A which act as catalysts to the absorption & use of all hydro soluble vitamins in the diet. These active liposolubles are only found in certain animal products, like organ meats, butter, eggs, fish & shellfish. Finally, fermented soya may be easily digested, but the rest, with phytates & enzyme inhibitors, rancid fatty acids & altered protein are certainly not. I would have to advise completely against the use of soya products. To quote myself from earlier: I believe that if nature makes something so difficult to make edible, then there is a damn good reason for it. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ''I reject your reality and substitute my own'' Adam Savage. Last edited by Nine Pack; 22-01-2007 at 08:34 PM.