SportDr

Thought you would all like this information on vitamins taken from Optimum Nutrition Bible by Patrick Holford.

Attached is a table of the most common vitamins, minerals and nutrients (also find below,thanks massive).
In the second column is RDA (recommended daily allowance). The RDA is set by government scientists and is the amount of that micronutrient required to prevent deficiency disease. The RDA is also based on an average persons body weight (69kg)!!
In column three is the average Joe's diet, and in column four is a good diet packed with fruit, veg, seeds and nuts.
In column five is the ODA (Optimal Daily Amount). This is the amount of the given micronutrient required for 'Optimal Health', that being necessary to grow muscle if nothing else!

As you can see from the table above there are several important issues raised.

The RDA is often not met by an average diet filled with processed and refined food.

The RDA is often exceeded by a good diet.

The RDA is vastly lower than the ODA.

Even a good diet is nowhere near the ODA.

The ODA is vastly lower than the given nutrients toxicity levels!

The difference between your diet and the ODA, is your supplementation level.

The ODA increases with body mass, disease, drug use and poor food quality as your body seeks to rid itself of toxins, free radicals and disease. As such, as bodybuilders, the ODA could potentially be even higher, especially in the anti-oxidants A,C & E.

To meet even the minimum ODA is almost impossible with food alone, partly responsible for that is the quality of our food! Supplementation is the answer.

The minimum a bodybuilder should be taking is

2x Multivitamin (one morning, one late afternoon). Take with meals.
2x Anti-oxidant complex (A,C,E +Co-enzyme Q10, Green tea Etc)
2x 1000mg Vit c (preferably slow release, preferably with Bioflavinoids) Take away from meals.

Remember the RDA is based on a 69kg sedentary person, aiming for just enough micronutrients to stave of a deficiency disease. How many people reading this fit that category?

If the bodybuilder is supplementing with AAS, in particular 17AA, then additional Antioxidant support would be needed in the form of extra A, C & E, and extra Niacin to lower cholesterol, as well as usual Liver protectorants. As such the bodybuilders supplements would look lke this:

3x Multivitamin (one morning, one lunchtime, one early evening) take with meals.
2x Antioxidant Complex one AM, one before workout.
3-10 x Vit C 1000mg (10x 1000mg is being used in medicine for lowering cholesterol!! start at 3 and work up, if you get loose stools then cut back) Spread out the dose.
1 x Garlic (lowers cholesterol)
6 x Omega Capsules
Liver protectorants (mik thistle etc)
1-2 x Niacin (B3) 500mg (No flush variety only. Lowers cholesterol).

If due to AAS the bodybuilder has acne then increase vitamin E by 400mg and add Niacin (B3) 100mg for thirty days.

Vitamins help every component of our bodies function, but they also clean and detox you and balance your hormones. With so many factors leaching vitamins from your body, it would be counter productive not to over supplement, especially considering toxicity from vitamins is very dificult to achieve and that toxicity in most cases means mostly as little as an upset stomach.

I can hear a few of you reading this and saying to yourselves 'is he crazy?? I am gonna poison myself!!' Vitamin toxicity is very rare and difficult to achieve, look at the toxicity levels. The only remotely dangerous vitamin is Vit D. B6 can cause neuropathy, Vit A is toxic in large doses to pregnant women. In all cases, symptoms are reversible on discontinued use, so if you get a reaction that is unpleasant then back off the dose. Try it, you may just get an overwhelming sense of well being as you re-feed your body its depleted micronutrients, or you may find that the cold you had cleared up, or that the headache goes, perhaps never to come back. Try the programme for a month and see for yourself, its cheaper and healthier than most supplements and comes with science fact to back it up not science fiction.

Thanks to MrMassive for sorting out my table posting problems!

SD

Attached Images

Vitamin table.jpg (82.1 KB, 263 views)

Attached Files

Nutrient RDA ODA.doc (59.5 KB, 43 views)

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skizxi

cheer mate very good read

Nytol

Excellent post.

skizxi

When you say "if on aas 3 x muti vits a day" surley this depends on the strenght of the tablets?

SportDr

It would but I wouldn't go any higher if thats what you mean. Any positive hormonal imbalance will require extra micronutrient support and raised metabolism will require more anti-oxidants.

3 multivits, plus the other extra supplements should have you covered for most scenarios, as without bloods it would be impossible to know if you are supplementing high enough. Whilst it is very difficult to poison yourself with vitamins, 3 is a high dose, but still nowhere near toxicity.

You could experiment with your dosing skizxi, but stay well within toxicity levels, I would say three is probably 3 times the amount most people are taking.

HTH

SD

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skizxi

cheers - i use solger 75 at the mo and 1 a day as they are strong

SportDr

Solgar are one of the better and stronger ones for sure, you would still need two to come near ODA however. Use fitday.com to track your micronutrients and you will see what I mean.

SD

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mrmasive

To read later

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mrmasive

__________________
"The greatest test of courage is to bear defeat without loosing heart"

B:120 S:200 DL:230 @ 85kg

SportDr

Don't know how you did it dude, but that was sweet! thanks.
SD

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Any advice given is for information only, always seek the advice of your medical practitioner.

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hackskii

Bump for reading after break time at work. Hell, I gotta get paid to read this.

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Scott


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Nine Pack

Good discussion & a lot of useful info.
RDA's were formulated after the last world war & relate to what the medical community refers to as 'physiological man'. He is about 70kg, carrying no extra muscle tissue & average bodyfat. He is in no way an athlete.
The RDA'a were set simply to allow society to recover after years of wartime rationing. They were designed to allow people to live, work to retirement age, reproduce & place as little strain on the health service as possible. They are basically 'adequate' values, nothing more.
Nobody under hard regular training can be satisfied with being 'adequate'. Our values need to be massively increased if we are to reap the benefits of our hard work. We need optimum nutrition, which is in essence an artificial environment as it would never occur in nature. It's something we can achieve easily due to the abundance of food & supplements. we want to be lean & muscular, your body, as a survival mechanism, does not. It will cut you dead in your tracks unless you provide it with every nutrient & micronutrient it needs to grow that way, otherwise it takes too much energy to sustain any degree of muscularity & the body will get rid of it without hesitation. Ain't mother nature a bitch?!

Keyser Soze

Given the poverty of condensed vitamin info out there, this is a real breath of fresh air in it's depth and clarity.

That said, I want some confirmation about the toxicity levels of Vitamin A, most sources I've seen place it around 3200 - which is a big disparity. What studies have demonstrated normal body function at 8000??

Agree about RDA, it's a pathetically unrealistic yardstick that started many years before the advent of bodybuilding, before we had so much pollution and refinements in our food.

Most people think of RDA as "A minimum amount of nutrients I need to feel great every day!" whereas in fact it has only two purposes, both of which are utter copouts...

1) So manufacturers can get away with making food appear healthier than it is;

2) To avoid the risk of advocating toxic levels of vits.

Ok that' all, any proof on Vit A toxicity levels appreciated.


Keyser

Great White

Yeah, good Read SD.

Im always worried about how many vits I should be taking along side my Multivitamin.

I always break up things like Zinc, Magnesium, etc so that I dont take them with my multi.

Now, seeing this, that I should be taking 2 - 3 multi`s a day, as well as everything else kinda makes things easier.

Rep for you and im gonna stick it for a bit.

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hackskii

Guys, you need to look at the copper amounts in your supplements.
Seems there is some association with high copper and Alzheimer’s disease.
They used to think it was aluminum but just recently it is suggested copper is the cause.

Most vitamin supplements contain 2mg of copper and if you are taking many of the multiples then you are probably over the top on copper.
Worse yet if you are taking a mineral supplement, again those have 2mg of copper.
Now to make things worse, many water pipes are made of copper and if you have acidic (low PH) water then you run a risk of leeching from the pipes into your water, making this even worse.

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Scott


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