Cissus quadrangularis & injuries - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Truewarrior1 · 03-10-2006, 10:00 PM

jus bought 100g for me n a m8 each , information below.

--------------------------------

Cissus has a large vitamin component but more importantly the ability to deliver the vitamin to the target tissue.Cissus also stimulates myoblast and osteoblast acitivity. Form my brief studies on Tendons, Osteoblasts and myoblasts stimulate collagen II synthesis. Just because we stimulate collagen II synthesis does not exactly correlate to HEALING of an injury. You can stimulate Collagen II synthesis and GROW NEW tissue. New tissue is great if its directly stimulated where injury occurs. You can stimulate new growth but the growth may be away from the injury. A great example is your brick wall has a whole in it and instead of patching the whole directly you build a NEW wall to over the whole. The structural instability is still present.

Cissus in research has proven to correct structural instability in fractures. The healing process of Fractures includes Tendon and ligament stability.

THE SCIENCE
Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 gramalso s to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis, which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.
Real World Application for injuries

Simply if your suffering from Joint pain, Ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage, Cissus is the supplement to use. It has been my experience that many grapplers take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. Cissus has the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury while promoting healing.

Some users will get instant relief and other will need to use Cissus for much longer period of time for complete healing of an injury. Leverage performance science is not claiming that Cissus will work 100% percent of the time that would be a foolish claim. We have estimated that 85% of user experience relief from our product. This number may lower or rise as more consumers send in reports. In the PHARMACUETICAL industry a 50% success rate is good. Since we talking about the Pharmaceutical industry, they have yet to produce a product that helps the healing process. They just develop pain medications that are often addicting.

THE OTHER SIDE EFFECT IS ANABOLIC!
Cissus is anabolic and anti-catabolic!!! Cissus users report a "PUMP" that we call the Cissus pump. The PUMP effect becomes prevalent at approximately 10-15 days of continous Cissus use. The "PUMP" is due to the increase of blood flow to the muscle. The Cissus pump will have you flexing your muscle for no apparent reason. This is when you know the product has exerted its effect.

Cissus is a powerful natural anabolic; if not the most powerful natural anabolic on the market. Why would a grappler need it? An Anabolic and anti-catabolic substance allows for faster recovery from exercise, from injury, increase in muscle strength, and stamina. In short, you will be able to train longer and recover faster without the negative effects of anabolic steroids.

Cissus is also an ideal product to use in conjuntion with cAMPED for dropping weight. Imagine decreasing bodyfat while simultaneously retaining your strength and preserving muscle mass while on a calorie restricted diet! The combined effects of Cissus and cAMPED become a powerful tool for any competive grappler!

WARNING
If using Cissus to heal injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) effect . This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution until full recovery has been achieved. On the contrary, if using Cissus primarily for its Anabolic properties your training program should be continued with maximum intensity to reap the full benefits of this product.

Roll On!

References
1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8

2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8.

3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76.

4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50.

5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46.

6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105.

7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7rences

the feedback on this product so far has been nothing short of amazing in some cases...........

"Amazing stuff. All I can say is that it works. I developed tendonitis in my right elbow. After going to the doctor, who gave me cortisone shots and to a physical therapist who did nothing, I heard about this stuff on bodybuilding.com. On the first dose, I noticed the pain going away. After a month, my tendonitis pretty much disappeared. Unreal. I've tried glucosamine/msm - a waste. This stuff works. I would say it healed me."

"Cissus, Ohh cissus! This stuff rocks! I had a serious shoulder pain for months. I began megadosing cissus at 12 caps a day (using usplabs cissus rx)... After 1 week pain was lessining. After two weeks, I was really starting to feel better. After 3 weeks The PAIN WAS GONE! It was amazing... Going from dealing with this naggin pain in my mid to rear delt for months.. to being able to bench and shoulder press like a champ! During this period I also leaned up dramatically w/ out drastic changes in my diet. To say the least I'm impressed!"

"Help my joints out in 3 days...nothing else worked unless I took it for 60 days or more.

This stuff is amazing. Haven't felt any anabolic effects from it though."

"I do quite a bit of squats and deadlifts.
Plus as a martial artist I have to have fleixibility and fluidity in my joints.
Cissus eased my joint pain in about a week of taking it.
And I seem to be able to move faster and the snaps on my punches and kicks are tighter
and more efficient.
Also it seems to help when I am lifting because its easier to maitain form; its like those small support muscles are stronger.

Might not work for everyone but it works perfectly for me."

"I DISLOCATED my patella (knee cap) December 26 2004. You can only imagine the kind of pain I went through. My doctor also told me I could never do squats for the rest of my entire life. It didn't set in till I realized he wasnt kidding. Going down the stairs even had me paranoid. My knee would alwasy feel funny walking down some stairs. After using this supplement my joints dont feel bad or have a different feeling that it usually has. I know it probably wont be the miracle pill that I'm looking for to completely heal an irreverisble problem (ligaments tore and supposedly they'll never heal 100%). But it does help a lot! so 5 stars"

"I had a neck injury and this really does kill pain. Hard to say if it strengthens tendons and ligaments yet but I can say for sure it eases pain. Actually helped with my pain more than ibubrofen.
I never noticed relief from glucosamin/msm so it's cool to have something else that's natural.
Also notice better pumps during training. A nice bonus."

continued...

Truewarrior1 · 03-10-2006, 10:04 PM

"Cissus was a life-saver while on my first PH cycle. My joints and tendons where sore 24-7. Within a few days, they were all better. This stuff also gives some pretty great pumps; although, it takes some time for that to happen, but when it does, watch out. "

"Definitely works good and does what it says. Id been battling some tendonitis in my knees for quite a long time and its gone now. Theres no more pain and they just feel smoother. Two caps twice a day is all thats needed (Im around 230-240lbs too). I havent tried any other joint care products so I have nothing to compare it to, but Im having a hard time thinking anything could beat this.

Havent noticed anything anabolic from it though. Maybe thats only when its mega dosed."

" I have knee problems that always make leg days hard. With a combination of Cissus and occaisonally a Mobic, I'm virtually pain free.
And the price is very nice."

"
I was very skeptical but gave it a try for some knee pain I'd been having for several months. It didn't completely wipe it out, but it took it from about a 7 to a 3 on the pain scale in a matter of days. Gluc, Cond, & MSM did nothing. I am very impressed with this product."

"GREAT PRODUCT. I HAD ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY AND AFTER THE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WERE REALLY JUST DULLING THE PAIN I DECIDED TO TRY THIS. GLUCOSAMINE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE PAIN THIS STUFF ON THE OTHER HAND IS AMAZING. IT COMPLETELY WIPED THE PAIN OUT. I TAKE THREE TIMES A DAY TWO CAPS AND NO PAIN. THIS STUFF IS AMAZING AND FAR BETTER THAN THE 4 ALEVE PER DAY I WAS USING AND MUCH SAFER. I HAVEN'T NOTICE ANYTHING ANABOLIC THOUGH YET THAT IS NOT WHY I GOT THIS PRODUCT I GOT IT STRICTLY FOR PAIN RELIEF WHICH IT WORKS WONDERS."

and only 2 negatives reviews

"I bought 2 bottles in hopes it would help with arthritic symptoms of an old shoulder injury as well as the anaboplic effects. Well, Ive taken this for 5 weeks and havent noticed anything from it. I wont be buying it again."

"
Nothing special to me. Had to up the dosage to 3 pills, twice daily to feel any joint repair. I feel like this product has been over hyped on the Forums."

just posting some info on this new supp and i'll be updating this thread with how me and my friend get on with it.

**hackskii** · 03-10-2006, 10:55 PM

Bump for Nytol, he was asking me if I heard about this. I typed up an article that was in a mag but had not any way near the info your article had.
Nice find.
My knees bug me too, I think I will buy some of this stuff.

Here is a snip:

A recent study was undertaken to investigate the role of Cissus quadrangularis in stimulating gonadotropins and to establish its use in male/female reproductive disorders as well as a safe alternative to synthetic androgens.*

50 Human healthy adult male volunteers were selected and each was given 120 capsules each containing either 150mg of Cissus quadrangularis (standardized to 5% keto-steroids) or 150mg microcrystalline cellulose. The bottles were coded and randomly distributed amongst the volunteers. Each volunteer was prescribed 1 capsule TDS ½ hour before meals.

Blood was drawn from each volunteer at day 1 and basal rates of testosterone, LH and FSH were determined. The volunteers were then called back at day 30 and day 60 for a second round of blood assay. The results are presented below:

These results show that serum testosterone levels were increased nearly 4 times over the levels at the beginning of the study. The largest increase in testosterone occurred in the first 30 days of this study.

I think I might have found the cheapest price on the powder.
I have a capper.

http://customnutritionwarehouse.com/...er-p-1043.html

**hackskii** · 03-10-2006, 11:01 PM

Just purchased 2.2 pounds of this stuff.
I had to I got a discount for 10

I bought 1000 grams for just under 100 bucks with shipping and taxes. Came to just under $10.00 per 100 grams.
Might have to chuck it in my pwo shake.
I can only imagine what that stuff tasts like.
If it is as good as half the claims I am reading I will be happy, carb blocking, fat loss, muscle grwoth, bone health, joint health, raising testosterone, all good and this would be a nice addition to my PCT.

I hate market hype.

**hackskii** · 07-10-2006, 08:21 PM

Bump, product has arrived.
It smells like cocoa.

**Nytol** · 17-10-2006, 04:21 PM

Cheers Hack, it is supposed to taste quite nasty, I'd cap it, lol.

Be interested in your results, both of you.

TrueWarrior, where did you get yours from, can you post a link please if it is UK based, as I would like to get some.

the_gre8t_1ne · 17-10-2006, 04:37 PM

Bump wat Nytol said!

Tatyana · 17-10-2006, 05:10 PM

From True Warrior

www.bulkpowders.co.uk

x
x
x

T

**Nytol** · 17-10-2006, 06:15 PM

Thanks Tatyana, I shall order some now,

probably other stuff too, I tend to get carried away on that site, lol

**hackskii** · 17-10-2006, 06:21 PM

I gotta order those caps, I cant handle the smell of that stuff now

tkd · 17-10-2006, 06:33 PM

Im interested in using cissus, but need more info about doseages and what time to take them?

**Nytol** · 17-10-2006, 09:31 PM

I quickly read that 3g twice per day was good, but I need to look into it further.

**hackskii** · 17-10-2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nytol

I quickly read that 3g twice per day was good, but I need to look into it further.

Well, for me I tend to double everything

If it says 3 I take 6 or even 9.

What ever you do dont put a spoonfull in your protein shake or it will go down the drain.

I gotta get those caps going. I have a capper but no caps.

**Nytol** · 18-10-2006, 09:47 AM

Lol, I shall be capping for sure

fits · 18-10-2006, 11:53 AM

keep us updated please hack, and any one else taking :-) :beer1:

03-10-2006, 10:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
Truewarrior1 Hulking Out! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: london Posts: 1,823	Cissus quadrangularis & injuries jus bought 100g for me n a m8 each , information below. -------------------------------- Cissus has a large vitamin component but more importantly the ability to deliver the vitamin to the target tissue.Cissus also stimulates myoblast and osteoblast acitivity. Form my brief studies on Tendons, Osteoblasts and myoblasts stimulate collagen II synthesis. Just because we stimulate collagen II synthesis does not exactly correlate to HEALING of an injury. You can stimulate Collagen II synthesis and GROW NEW tissue. New tissue is great if its directly stimulated where injury occurs. You can stimulate new growth but the growth may be away from the injury. A great example is your brick wall has a whole in it and instead of patching the whole directly you build a NEW wall to over the whole. The structural instability is still present. Cissus in research has proven to correct structural instability in fractures. The healing process of Fractures includes Tendon and ligament stability. THE SCIENCE Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic, with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus' ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakend by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun. While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucorticoids, including the body's endogenous hormone cortisol activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and over-training) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucorticoid effect cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress. Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers around bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may act to improve bone healing it may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons. If this is the case it would be of great benefit to bodybuilders and athletes. Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6). The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus is 3 to 6 gramalso s to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract. Cissus also possess analgesic properties on a mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis, which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, but the anti-inflammatory features suggest that it acts by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins. Real World Application for injuries Simply if your suffering from Joint pain, Ligament pain, cartilage pain, had surgery on bone, ligament or cartilage, Cissus is the supplement to use. It has been my experience that many grapplers take anti-inflammatory medications to fight through the pain. Ultimately, these medications only kill the sensation of pain not the symptom. Cissus has the ability to kill the pain specific to the injury while promoting healing. Some users will get instant relief and other will need to use Cissus for much longer period of time for complete healing of an injury. Leverage performance science is not claiming that Cissus will work 100% percent of the time that would be a foolish claim. We have estimated that 85% of user experience relief from our product. This number may lower or rise as more consumers send in reports. In the PHARMACUETICAL industry a 50% success rate is good. Since we talking about the Pharmaceutical industry, they have yet to produce a product that helps the healing process. They just develop pain medications that are often addicting. THE OTHER SIDE EFFECT IS ANABOLIC! Cissus is anabolic and anti-catabolic!!! Cissus users report a "PUMP" that we call the Cissus pump. The PUMP effect becomes prevalent at approximately 10-15 days of continous Cissus use. The "PUMP" is due to the increase of blood flow to the muscle. The Cissus pump will have you flexing your muscle for no apparent reason. This is when you know the product has exerted its effect. Cissus is a powerful natural anabolic; if not the most powerful natural anabolic on the market. Why would a grappler need it? An Anabolic and anti-catabolic substance allows for faster recovery from exercise, from injury, increase in muscle strength, and stamina. In short, you will be able to train longer and recover faster without the negative effects of anabolic steroids. Cissus is also an ideal product to use in conjuntion with cAMPED for dropping weight. Imagine decreasing bodyfat while simultaneously retaining your strength and preserving muscle mass while on a calorie restricted diet! The combined effects of Cissus and cAMPED become a powerful tool for any competive grappler! WARNING If using Cissus to heal injury related pain, you may experience instant relief due to its analgesic (pain killing) effect . This does not mean the injury has completely healed! Please continue your training regimen with extra caution until full recovery has been achieved. On the contrary, if using Cissus primarily for its Anabolic properties your training program should be continued with maximum intensity to reap the full benefits of this product. Roll On! References 1) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Awadhiya RP. Studies of Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair : a histopathological study Indian J Med Res. 1976 Sep;64(9):1365-8 2) Chopra SS, Patel MR, Gupta LP, Datta IC. Studies on Cissus quadrangularis in experimental fracture repair: effect on chemical parameters in blood Indian J Med Res. 1975 Jun;63(6):824-8. 3) PRASAD GC, UDUPA KN. EFFECT OF CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS ON THE HEALING OF CORTISONE TREATED FRACTURES. Indian J Med Res. 1963 Jul;51:667-76. 4) Shirwaikar A, Khan S, Malini S. Antiosteoporotic effect of ethanol extract of Cissus quadrangularis Linn. on ovariectomized rat. J Ethnopharmacol. 2003 Dec;89(2-3):245-50. 5) Combaret L, Taillandier D, Dardevet D, Bechet D, Ralliere C, Claustre A, Grizard J, Attaix D Glucocorticoids regulate mRNA levels for subunits of the 19 S regulatory complex of the 26 S proteasome in fast-twitch skeletal muscles. Biochem J. 2004 Feb 15;378(Pt 1):239-46. 6) Chidambara Murthy KN, Vanitha A, Mahadeva Swamy M, Ravishankar GA. Antioxidant and antimicrobial activity of Cissus quadrangularis L. J Med Food. 2003 Summer;6(2):99-105. 7) Panda, J Res Ayurv Siddha, 1990, 11, 7rences the feedback on this product so far has been nothing short of amazing in some cases........... "Amazing stuff. All I can say is that it works. I developed tendonitis in my right elbow. After going to the doctor, who gave me cortisone shots and to a physical therapist who did nothing, I heard about this stuff on bodybuilding.com. On the first dose, I noticed the pain going away. After a month, my tendonitis pretty much disappeared. Unreal. I've tried glucosamine/msm - a waste. This stuff works. I would say it healed me." "Cissus, Ohh cissus! This stuff rocks! I had a serious shoulder pain for months. I began megadosing cissus at 12 caps a day (using usplabs cissus rx)... After 1 week pain was lessining. After two weeks, I was really starting to feel better. After 3 weeks The PAIN WAS GONE! It was amazing... Going from dealing with this naggin pain in my mid to rear delt for months.. to being able to bench and shoulder press like a champ! During this period I also leaned up dramatically w/ out drastic changes in my diet. To say the least I'm impressed!" "Help my joints out in 3 days...nothing else worked unless I took it for 60 days or more. This stuff is amazing. Haven't felt any anabolic effects from it though." "I do quite a bit of squats and deadlifts. Plus as a martial artist I have to have fleixibility and fluidity in my joints. Cissus eased my joint pain in about a week of taking it. And I seem to be able to move faster and the snaps on my punches and kicks are tighter and more efficient. Also it seems to help when I am lifting because its easier to maitain form; its like those small support muscles are stronger. Might not work for everyone but it works perfectly for me." "I DISLOCATED my patella (knee cap) December 26 2004. You can only imagine the kind of pain I went through. My doctor also told me I could never do squats for the rest of my entire life. It didn't set in till I realized he wasnt kidding. Going down the stairs even had me paranoid. My knee would alwasy feel funny walking down some stairs. After using this supplement my joints dont feel bad or have a different feeling that it usually has. I know it probably wont be the miracle pill that I'm looking for to completely heal an irreverisble problem (ligaments tore and supposedly they'll never heal 100%). But it does help a lot! so 5 stars" "I had a neck injury and this really does kill pain. Hard to say if it strengthens tendons and ligaments yet but I can say for sure it eases pain. Actually helped with my pain more than ibubrofen. I never noticed relief from glucosamin/msm so it's cool to have something else that's natural. Also notice better pumps during training. A nice bonus." continued... __________________ When You Dance With The Devil You Wait For The Song To Stop. Currently HULKING OUT! Last edited by Truewarrior1; 03-10-2006 at 10:04 PM.

03-10-2006, 10:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
Truewarrior1 Hulking Out! Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: london Posts: 1,823	"Cissus was a life-saver while on my first PH cycle. My joints and tendons where sore 24-7. Within a few days, they were all better. This stuff also gives some pretty great pumps; although, it takes some time for that to happen, but when it does, watch out. " "Definitely works good and does what it says. Id been battling some tendonitis in my knees for quite a long time and its gone now. Theres no more pain and they just feel smoother. Two caps twice a day is all thats needed (Im around 230-240lbs too). I havent tried any other joint care products so I have nothing to compare it to, but Im having a hard time thinking anything could beat this. Havent noticed anything anabolic from it though. Maybe thats only when its mega dosed." " I have knee problems that always make leg days hard. With a combination of Cissus and occaisonally a Mobic, I'm virtually pain free. And the price is very nice." " I was very skeptical but gave it a try for some knee pain I'd been having for several months. It didn't completely wipe it out, but it took it from about a 7 to a 3 on the pain scale in a matter of days. Gluc, Cond, & MSM did nothing. I am very impressed with this product." "GREAT PRODUCT. I HAD ROTATOR CUFF SURGERY AND AFTER THE PRESCRIPTION DRUGS WERE REALLY JUST DULLING THE PAIN I DECIDED TO TRY THIS. GLUCOSAMINE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THE PAIN THIS STUFF ON THE OTHER HAND IS AMAZING. IT COMPLETELY WIPED THE PAIN OUT. I TAKE THREE TIMES A DAY TWO CAPS AND NO PAIN. THIS STUFF IS AMAZING AND FAR BETTER THAN THE 4 ALEVE PER DAY I WAS USING AND MUCH SAFER. I HAVEN'T NOTICE ANYTHING ANABOLIC THOUGH YET THAT IS NOT WHY I GOT THIS PRODUCT I GOT IT STRICTLY FOR PAIN RELIEF WHICH IT WORKS WONDERS." and only 2 negatives reviews "I bought 2 bottles in hopes it would help with arthritic symptoms of an old shoulder injury as well as the anaboplic effects. Well, Ive taken this for 5 weeks and havent noticed anything from it. I wont be buying it again." " Nothing special to me. Had to up the dosage to 3 pills, twice daily to feel any joint repair. I feel like this product has been over hyped on the Forums." just posting some info on this new supp and i'll be updating this thread with how me and my friend get on with it. __________________ When You Dance With The Devil You Wait For The Song To Stop. Currently HULKING OUT!

03-10-2006, 10:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,634	Bump for Nytol, he was asking me if I heard about this. I typed up an article that was in a mag but had not any way near the info your article had. Nice find. My knees bug me too, I think I will buy some of this stuff. Here is a snip: A recent study was undertaken to investigate the role of Cissus quadrangularis in stimulating gonadotropins and to establish its use in male/female reproductive disorders as well as a safe alternative to synthetic androgens.* 50 Human healthy adult male volunteers were selected and each was given 120 capsules each containing either 150mg of Cissus quadrangularis (standardized to 5% keto-steroids) or 150mg microcrystalline cellulose. The bottles were coded and randomly distributed amongst the volunteers. Each volunteer was prescribed 1 capsule TDS ½ hour before meals. Blood was drawn from each volunteer at day 1 and basal rates of testosterone, LH and FSH were determined. The volunteers were then called back at day 30 and day 60 for a second round of blood assay. The results are presented below: These results show that serum testosterone levels were increased nearly 4 times over the levels at the beginning of the study. The largest increase in testosterone occurred in the first 30 days of this study. I think I might have found the cheapest price on the powder. I have a capper. http://customnutritionwarehouse.com/...er-p-1043.html __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-10-2006, 11:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,634	Just purchased 2.2 pounds of this stuff. I had to I got a discount for 10 I bought 1000 grams for just under 100 bucks with shipping and taxes. Came to just under $10.00 per 100 grams. Might have to chuck it in my pwo shake. I can only imagine what that stuff tasts like. If it is as good as half the claims I am reading I will be happy, carb blocking, fat loss, muscle grwoth, bone health, joint health, raising testosterone, all good and this would be a nice addition to my PCT. I hate market hype. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by hackskii; 03-10-2006 at 11:08 PM.

07-10-2006, 08:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,634	Bump, product has arrived. It smells like cocoa. __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-10-2006, 04:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nytol UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 4,059	Cheers Hack, it is supposed to taste quite nasty, I'd cap it, lol. Be interested in your results, both of you. TrueWarrior, where did you get yours from, can you post a link please if it is UK based, as I would like to get some.

17-10-2006, 04:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
the_gre8t_1ne Your Friendly neighbourhood pusha! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The Ghetto (West, London) Posts: 4,065	Bump wat Nytol said! __________________ Know your role and shut your mouth! or I'll layeth the SMACK DOWN on your Candy ASS!! If you smelalalalalalooouuuu To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. the gre8t 1ne.......is cooking!? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. also find me at To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-10-2006, 05:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tatyana My name is EARL Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On my bloody bike doing cardio Posts: 3,463	From True Warrior www.bulkpowders.co.uk x x x T

17-10-2006, 06:15 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nytol UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 4,059	Thanks Tatyana, I shall order some now, probably other stuff too, I tend to get carried away on that site, lol

17-10-2006, 06:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
hackskii UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Sunny Southern California U.S.A. Posts: 23,634	I gotta order those caps, I cant handle the smell of that stuff now __________________ "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." - George Carlin Scott To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

17-10-2006, 06:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
tkd Looking Freaky Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 554	Im interested in using cissus, but need more info about doseages and what time to take them? Last edited by tkd; 17-10-2006 at 06:35 PM.

17-10-2006, 09:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Nytol UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 4,059	I quickly read that 3g twice per day was good, but I need to look into it further.

18-10-2006, 09:47 AM	#14 (permalink)
Nytol UK-Muscle Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK Posts: 4,059	Lol, I shall be capping for sure

18-10-2006, 11:53 AM	#15 (permalink)
fits Getting HUGE! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: East London Posts: 1,348	keep us updated please hack, and any one else taking :-) :beer1: