Rate My Suppliments... - UK-Muscle Body Building Community

Hammy2k · 13-05-2006, 02:03 PM

I have decided to sort my diet and suppliments out, so I will list below what I have been contemplating, and hopefully everyone can assist in recommending/ pointing me in the right direction with regards to these...

Whey Protein Concentrate 80% *Instantised* 5kg (11lb)
Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL 100g
Ultra Fine Scottish Oats 2.5kg
ZMA® 100 Caps x 500mg
Black Star Labs Flavour System Strawberry Cream 50g

These are all from www.bulkpowders.co.uk and the total price comes to just over £50, though for now unsure what postage and packaging will come to...

Is there anything else I would need or is this a good enough starting package? (bear in mind I have only been training for about 3 months and am still getting my diet/suppliments right)

Any comments/ suggestions on these suppliments or other ones that you might think are better are welcome!

Thanks!

Dudex · 13-05-2006, 02:18 PM

Diet and training program are key, make sure you have these dialled.

The supplements are fine, you may want to add dextrose as well and use this (dextrose) and whey as your post workout shake. Since the oats will not be absorbed very quickly.

Tatyana · 14-05-2006, 11:14 AM

Ok lads,

is it not possible to buy oats from your local supermarket and stick them in a food processor or blender yourself?

I was just thinking about money and postage.

I also think Glutamine is quite important, most abundant amino acid in muscles.

So your whey proteins, one is a whey isolate, and the black star thing is a meal replacement?

x
x
x
T

rayvonn · 18-07-2006, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatyana

Ok lads,

is it not possible to buy oats from your local supermarket and stick them in a food processor or blender yourself?

I was just thinking about money and postage.

I also think Glutamine is quite important, most abundant amino acid in muscles.

So your whey proteins, one is a whey isolate, and the black star thing is a meal replacement?

x
x
x
T

Been on the website and the black star thing is a flavourer for the whey protein.

Musclehed · 18-07-2006, 12:09 PM

Must admitt I was pleasently surprised when i opened this thread. I was expecting a stereotypical noob stack (e.g. muscletech + superdrol).

You have most of the basics covered, I would add to this some healthy fats also available from bulkpowders (milled flax is good for fiber and fat, or fish oils)

I would also pick up some bulk leucine (cheap) for post-workout to add to whey and oats , I dumped the dextrose recently in favour of oats and find it preferable. Alternatively if you have the cash you could get a BCAA supp, which contains leucine (most important) and some other goodies.

Now go a head and post your diet as this will be the predominant factor in your success

Hammy2k · 19-07-2006, 08:45 PM

My diet isn't great, but its one of those things I try to make better every day. Granted if I had a ball of time things would be perfect but I don't, so unfortunately (to let myself down) here goes....

For breakfast I have: Crunchy nut cornflakes with fresh strawberrys and grapes. Followed by a protein, (little dextrose for flavour) fine oats and the chocolate flavour thing...

Mid morning all I would have time for is a shake, again this is the whey and oats (with a little dextrose) *shame on me*

Lunch is pretty good imo, Always at least 30g of protein from either chicken or fish, from checking the side of the box, paired up with some potatoes, either whole/ mashed or jacketed. And the odd time I would have peas/beans etc to fill up the plate...

Afternoon snack again would be merely a shake, whey and oats (and a little dextrose again...)

Pre Workout I normally hit the pasta and chicken, approximately an hour before the work out I am tucking into it. Then 30mins before hand I take a spoon full of the most vile tasting creatine known to man in a little glass of water... disgusting, but secretely I like it!

Immediately after the workout I take another shake, same routine, whey, oats and dextrose (though a little bit more dextrose for the 'spike' or something)

and before bed I have the pleasure (I really like this one) of a tin of tuna, a tin of something called 'Tuna Salad - a mediterranean recipe in a tomato and herb dressing' and a tin of sweetcorn... It looks like something the cat would eat, but trust me, its delicious!

and almost 30mins before I sleep (though thats kinda hard to judge) I take 3ZMA, as suggested on the box... fecks with your dreams big time, amusingly!

So - there you go, in a peanut shell my diet... I know it aint perfect, but I also know it isn't the worst (hopefully)!

And as always I look forward to peoples opinions or suggestions as I do take them in the best possible way and hopefully be able to decipher some good information that will help me in this my new found lifestyle of a body builder in progress!

Thanks again for spending time to post/comment!

Magic Torch · 19-07-2006, 08:51 PM

Drop the ZMA and get some Glutamine instead like Tatyana said it is important. ZMA works better with Tribulas so save these two untill you need a boost.

Get the diet right, get your protein and glutamine in yeah and some creatine. For now that will be fine.

Good luck fella

J

Musclehed · 20-07-2006, 10:29 AM

You havent said what your goal is. If you don't tell Santa what you want for christmas you aint gonna get it.

Hammy2k · 20-07-2006, 10:51 PM

I don't know where bodybuilding will take me or at what point I will say enough is enough... For now I have the happy thought of lookin like a cover guy from Mens Health Magazine, so I guess that would be my physical goal.

I want to continue to put on muscle without having to put on too much excess weight, and I know this will take longer, but something I have considered alot and am in favour of strongly!

Regardless to where I am right now, or my long term goals, I am enjoying it, I revel at the though of 'tonights training' and I am constantly thinking and plotting my next routine throughout the day, and I have the funny habit of checking the nutrition information on the back of EVERYTHING! Every little bit of protein counts...lol

Musclehed · 21-07-2006, 03:43 PM

OK now we have a better idea of what you looking for (basically a lean bulk). Since I am bored and such a nice guy I have taken the liberty to email you a good calorie calculator which (based on a classic 40-40-20 spilt) works out your grams of carbs/protein and fat per day.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=172food2

There’s an article that’s got some simple, but worth reiterating points.

One thing that struck me with your outlined diet was the reliance on protein powder. In a perfect world this would only be used post work, since the value of a whole meal is far far superior. That being said I realise there are situation where you need it for convenience (although most of these can be planned for).

breakfast: Crunchy nut cornflakes with fresh strawberrys and grapes. Followed by a protein, (little dextrose for flavour) fine oats and the chocolate flavour thing...

Sorry friend lose the 'Crunchy nut cornflakes' sure like frosties there 'gonna taste great' but at what price :-) I would opt for a big old bowl of porridge and a big old omelette (mainly whites). I like the fruit so keep that

Mid morning all I would have time for is a shake, again this is the whey and oats (with a little dextrose) *shame on me*

Personally I don’t care for dextrose but to each there own. Dextrose will send your insulin levels flying. Great after a workout BUT only then, if you raise your levels many times a day it can lead to type II diabetes and fat gain. Better option (if you must have a shake) is plain shake and some fish oil tablets

Lunch - 30g of protein from either chicken or fish, from checking the side of the box, paired up with some potatoes, either whole/ mashed or jacketed. And the odd time I would have peas/beans etc to fill up the plate...

I like this too, just don’t take veg to fill the plate, pile them on. Pop some more fish oils as well

Afternoon snack again would be merely a shake, whey and oats (and a little dextrose again...)

Is there some dextrose support group you can join? My name is Hammy and I lurve the sweet dextrose...lose it!!! Same complaint as before, think food. Tuna is easy, with some fruit.

Pre Workout I normally hit the pasta and chicken, approximately an hour before the work out I am tucking into it. Then 30mins before hand I take a spoon full of the most vile tasting creatine known to man in a little glass of water... disgusting, but secretely I like it!

All in order here, guessing that the CEE you speak of. This is the time to take any pre workout energy boosters if you want to push it up a notch. AMP/StimX or good ol' ephedrine.

Immediately after the workout I take another shake, same routine, whey, oats and dextrose (though a little bit more dextrose for the 'spike' or something)

If you choose to go with leucine (BCAA) drinking 1/2 through your workout and finish the rest after with your meal above. I would also have another hit of creatine here.

and before bed I have the pleasure (I really like this one) of a tin of tuna, a tin of something called 'Tuna Salad - a mediterranean recipe in a tomato and herb dressing' and a tin of sweetcorn... It looks like something the cat would eat, but trust me, its delicious!

I would swap this with your lunch. You want another Protein and Carb meal here (PPW post post workout), a lean meat and jacket potatoe (sweet are better) are ideal

General recommendations

- try when humanly possible to eat whole foods for protein
- save the dextrose for only Post Workout, if your protein is bad without it, change it, I am using ALRI lipolytic (on offer at www.discount-supplements.co.uk) and it is damn good.
- I tend to get my carb in the first half of the day and fats in the second but thats a whole other debate
- be sure to get your 8 hours sleep
- get lots of fish oils in your day (got to holland barrett when on sale), 3-5 grams a day is a good starting point
- keep well hydrated, i hit 1.5 gallons everyday, do the same

Hammy2k · 22-07-2006, 07:52 PM

ok, here goes...

6am Breakfast: Porridge Oats + Scrambled eggs and fruit (strawberries and grapes)

10:30 (Break Time) Protein Shake and Fish Oils (Is Omega-3 ok?)

1pm (Lunch) Meat/ Poultry + Veg + Fish Oils

3:30 (Break Time) Tuna + Fruit

5:30 (Pre-Workout) Past + Fish
*CEE Intake (30mins before workout)

**Approx 7:30 (Post Workout) Protein + Dextrose Shake

9pm (Post post Workout) Pasta + Chicken

(30 mins before bed I will continue to take ZMA as they are almost finished then when I re-order my supps I will get some glutamine)

A big thanks Musclehed btw for the time you have spent helping me out, it is much appreciated! The calorie counter is a good job also - at least now I will know how much I need to eat to make the gains I want! I have all but cut the dextrose out you will be pleased to hear - its only in my post workout shakes!

This new 'schedule' will really come into play from Monday, so I will try to keep you all posted on my progress!

Tatyana · 23-07-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musclehed

Must admitt I was pleasently surprised when i opened this thread. I was expecting a stereotypical noob stack (e.g. muscletech + superdrol).

You have most of the basics covered, I would add to this some healthy fats also available from bulkpowders (milled flax is good for fiber and fat, or fish oils)

I would also pick up some bulk leucine (cheap) for post-workout to add to whey and oats , I dumped the dextrose recently in favour of oats and find it preferable. Alternatively if you have the cash you could get a BCAA supp, which contains leucine (most important) and some other goodies.

Now go a head and post your diet as this will be the predominant factor in your success

Leucine is one of the branched chain amino acids, and they are an essential in my supplements right now, so yes, I would stress these are incredibly important. Best on an empty stomach.

x
x
x

T

Magic Torch · 23-07-2006, 06:27 PM

I'd add another meal in at about 8.30 cause you are eating every 2-3 hours through the day and here there is a 4.5 hour break, you may snack and then you wont be hungry later....also when you start to gain weight you'll be more hungry due to the increase in muscle mass.

Even if its a pack of peanuts and a banana

Hammy2k · 28-07-2006, 11:13 PM

This has been alot more difficult than I thought it would be... we started out great on Sunday, every meal was in place and I managed to clean up after myself... wasn't so good the rest of the week...

My main problem in the mornings is time... I get up at 5:30 in order to be in work for 7am, I know this sounds like long enough to get the usual morning stuff sorted and get my oats (I don't like them much) and scrambled eggs, but... I never have enough time to get both of these, the oats are pretty much in my diet constantly but I am lacking protein in this meal...

I haven't yet added a meal in at 8/8:30 as I can't sneak away from work long enough to eat anything... and they have a damn walkie talkie on me so I'm never in a position where I can't be reached!

First morning break is good, I get some chicken strips and milk, though haven't been to get the fish oils (should be getting them tomorrow)

Lunch is always good (thanks mum!)

Afternoon break has been interesting, I have tried tuna with three combinations this week, sweetcorn and mayo, lime and mayo (disgusting - though I ate it) and the mediteranian one I have mentioned previously... eating a banana with this...

Evening meal (pre-workout) was good at the start of the week as I got out from work around 5pm, but later in the week I had to work a little later and meant I couldn't eat before the gym, still got the creatine though)

post workout was spot on, and later meal was grand too...

So all in all a mixed bag - though something I am committed to and REALLY keen to nail it sooner rather than later!

Sorry for the long post - though did warn you that I was going to keep you all posted!

I have also worked out what I will be ordering in this months supps...

Flaxseed Powder
L Glutamine
Omega 3
Tribulus Terrestris (am still only contemplating this... jamiedsmith1981 recommended pairing this with ZMA for when I need a boost - so I might get some and have them in reserve if I need them...)
My usual protein and CEE and still have loads of dextrose, though cutting it out completely except for the post work out shake.

Hammy

13-05-2006, 02:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hammy2k Hamster in training! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portadown, Northern Ireland Posts: 11	Rate My Suppliments... I have decided to sort my diet and suppliments out, so I will list below what I have been contemplating, and hopefully everyone can assist in recommending/ pointing me in the right direction with regards to these... *Whey Protein Concentrate 80% Instantised* 5kg (11lb) Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL 100g Ultra Fine Scottish Oats 2.5kg ZMA® 100 Caps x 500mg Black Star Labs Flavour System Strawberry Cream 50g** These are all from www.bulkpowders.co.uk and the total price comes to just over £50, though for now unsure what postage and packaging will come to... Is there anything else I would need or is this a good enough starting package? (bear in mind I have only been training for about 3 months and am still getting my diet/suppliments right) Any comments/ suggestions on these suppliments or other ones that you might think are better are welcome! Thanks! __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure...

13-05-2006, 02:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dudex Gym Addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 120	Diet and training program are key, make sure you have these dialled. The supplements are fine, you may want to add dextrose as well and use this (dextrose) and whey as your post workout shake. Since the oats will not be absorbed very quickly. __________________ Lack of will power has caused more failure than lack of intelligence or ability.

19-07-2006, 08:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
Hammy2k Hamster in training! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portadown, Northern Ireland Posts: 11	My diet isn't great, but its one of those things I try to make better every day. Granted if I had a ball of time things would be perfect but I don't, so unfortunately (to let myself down) here goes.... For breakfast I have: Crunchy nut cornflakes with fresh strawberrys and grapes. Followed by a protein, (little dextrose for flavour) fine oats and the chocolate flavour thing... Mid morning all I would have time for is a shake, again this is the whey and oats (with a little dextrose) shame on me Lunch is pretty good imo, Always at least 30g of protein from either chicken or fish, from checking the side of the box, paired up with some potatoes, either whole/ mashed or jacketed. And the odd time I would have peas/beans etc to fill up the plate... Afternoon snack again would be merely a shake, whey and oats (and a little dextrose again...) Pre Workout I normally hit the pasta and chicken, approximately an hour before the work out I am tucking into it. Then 30mins before hand I take a spoon full of the most vile tasting creatine known to man in a little glass of water... disgusting, but secretely I like it! Immediately after the workout I take another shake, same routine, whey, oats and dextrose (though a little bit more dextrose for the 'spike' or something) and before bed I have the pleasure (I really like this one) of a tin of tuna, a tin of something called 'Tuna Salad - a mediterranean recipe in a tomato and herb dressing' and a tin of sweetcorn... It looks like something the cat would eat, but trust me, its delicious! and almost 30mins before I sleep (though thats kinda hard to judge) I take 3ZMA, as suggested on the box... fecks with your dreams big time, amusingly! So - there you go, in a peanut shell my diet... I know it aint perfect, but I also know it isn't the worst (hopefully)! And as always I look forward to peoples opinions or suggestions as I do take them in the best possible way and hopefully be able to decipher some good information that will help me in this my new found lifestyle of a body builder in progress! Thanks again for spending time to post/comment! __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure...

19-07-2006, 08:51 PM	#7 (permalink)
Magic Torch UK-M Swimsuit model Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex Posts: 5,062 Blog Entries: 5	Drop the ZMA and get some Glutamine instead like Tatyana said it is important. ZMA works better with Tribulas so save these two untill you need a boost. Get the diet right, get your protein and glutamine in yeah and some creatine. For now that will be fine. Good luck fella J __________________ intentionally blank

20-07-2006, 10:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
Hammy2k Hamster in training! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portadown, Northern Ireland Posts: 11	I don't know where bodybuilding will take me or at what point I will say enough is enough... For now I have the happy thought of lookin like a cover guy from Mens Health Magazine, so I guess that would be my physical goal. I want to continue to put on muscle without having to put on too much excess weight, and I know this will take longer, but something I have considered alot and am in favour of strongly! Regardless to where I am right now, or my long term goals, I am enjoying it, I revel at the though of 'tonights training' and I am constantly thinking and plotting my next routine throughout the day, and I have the funny habit of checking the nutrition information on the back of EVERYTHING! Every little bit of protein counts...lol __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure...

14-05-2006, 11:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tatyana My name is EARL Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On my bloody bike doing cardio Posts: 3,463	Ok lads, is it not possible to buy oats from your local supermarket and stick them in a food processor or blender yourself? I was just thinking about money and postage. I also think Glutamine is quite important, most abundant amino acid in muscles. So your whey proteins, one is a whey isolate, and the black star thing is a meal replacement? x x x T

18-07-2006, 12:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Musclehed Gym Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 156	Must admitt I was pleasently surprised when i opened this thread. I was expecting a stereotypical noob stack (e.g. muscletech + superdrol). You have most of the basics covered, I would add to this some healthy fats also available from bulkpowders (milled flax is good for fiber and fat, or fish oils) I would also pick up some bulk leucine (cheap) for post-workout to add to whey and oats , I dumped the dextrose recently in favour of oats and find it preferable. Alternatively if you have the cash you could get a BCAA supp, which contains leucine (most important) and some other goodies. Now go a head and post your diet as this will be the predominant factor in your success

20-07-2006, 10:29 AM	#8 (permalink)
Musclehed Gym Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 156	You havent said what your goal is. If you don't tell Santa what you want for christmas you aint gonna get it.

21-07-2006, 03:43 PM	#10 (permalink)
Musclehed Gym Addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 156	OK now we have a better idea of what you looking for (basically a lean bulk). Since I am bored and such a nice guy I have taken the liberty to email you a good calorie calculator which (based on a classic 40-40-20 spilt) works out your grams of carbs/protein and fat per day. http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=172food2 There’s an article that’s got some simple, but worth reiterating points. One thing that struck me with your outlined diet was the reliance on protein powder. In a perfect world this would only be used post work, since the value of a whole meal is far far superior. That being said I realise there are situation where you need it for convenience (although most of these can be planned for). breakfast: Crunchy nut cornflakes with fresh strawberrys and grapes. Followed by a protein, (little dextrose for flavour) fine oats and the chocolate flavour thing... Sorry friend lose the 'Crunchy nut cornflakes' sure like frosties there 'gonna taste great' but at what price :-) I would opt for a big old bowl of porridge and a big old omelette (mainly whites). I like the fruit so keep that Mid morning all I would have time for is a shake, again this is the whey and oats (with a little dextrose) shame on me Personally I don’t care for dextrose but to each there own. Dextrose will send your insulin levels flying. Great after a workout BUT only then, if you raise your levels many times a day it can lead to type II diabetes and fat gain. Better option (if you must have a shake) is plain shake and some fish oil tablets Lunch - 30g of protein from either chicken or fish, from checking the side of the box, paired up with some potatoes, either whole/ mashed or jacketed. And the odd time I would have peas/beans etc to fill up the plate... I like this too, just don’t take veg to fill the plate, pile them on. Pop some more fish oils as well Afternoon snack again would be merely a shake, whey and oats (and a little dextrose again...) Is there some dextrose support group you can join? My name is Hammy and I lurve the sweet dextrose...lose it!!! Same complaint as before, think food. Tuna is easy, with some fruit. Pre Workout I normally hit the pasta and chicken, approximately an hour before the work out I am tucking into it. Then 30mins before hand I take a spoon full of the most vile tasting creatine known to man in a little glass of water... disgusting, but secretely I like it! All in order here, guessing that the CEE you speak of. This is the time to take any pre workout energy boosters if you want to push it up a notch. AMP/StimX or good ol' ephedrine. Immediately after the workout I take another shake, same routine, whey, oats and dextrose (though a little bit more dextrose for the 'spike' or something) If you choose to go with leucine (BCAA) drinking 1/2 through your workout and finish the rest after with your meal above. I would also have another hit of creatine here. and before bed I have the pleasure (I really like this one) of a tin of tuna, a tin of something called 'Tuna Salad - a mediterranean recipe in a tomato and herb dressing' and a tin of sweetcorn... It looks like something the cat would eat, but trust me, its delicious! I would swap this with your lunch. You want another Protein and Carb meal here (PPW post post workout), a lean meat and jacket potatoe (sweet are better) are ideal General recommendations - try when humanly possible to eat whole foods for protein - save the dextrose for only Post Workout, if your protein is bad without it, change it, I am using ALRI lipolytic (on offer at www.discount-supplements.co.uk) and it is damn good. - I tend to get my carb in the first half of the day and fats in the second but thats a whole other debate - be sure to get your 8 hours sleep - get lots of fish oils in your day (got to holland barrett when on sale), 3-5 grams a day is a good starting point - keep well hydrated, i hit 1.5 gallons everyday, do the same

22-07-2006, 07:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
Hammy2k Hamster in training! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portadown, Northern Ireland Posts: 11	ok, here goes... 6am Breakfast: Porridge Oats + Scrambled eggs and fruit (strawberries and grapes) 10:30 (Break Time) Protein Shake and Fish Oils (Is Omega-3 ok?) 1pm (Lunch) Meat/ Poultry + Veg + Fish Oils 3:30 (Break Time) Tuna + Fruit 5:30 (Pre-Workout) Past + Fish CEE Intake (30mins before workout) Approx 7:30 (Post Workout) Protein + Dextrose Shake 9pm (Post post Workout) Pasta + Chicken (30 mins before bed I will continue to take ZMA as they are almost finished then when I re-order my supps I will get some glutamine) A big thanks Musclehed btw for the time you have spent helping me out, it is much appreciated! The calorie counter is a good job also - at least now I will know how much I need to eat to make the gains I want! I have all but cut the dextrose out you will be pleased to hear - its only in my post workout shakes! This new 'schedule' will really come into play from Monday, so I will try to keep you all posted on my progress! __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure... Last edited by Hammy2k; 22-07-2006 at 07:55 PM.*

23-07-2006, 06:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
Magic Torch UK-M Swimsuit model Join Date: May 2005 Location: Essex Posts: 5,062 Blog Entries: 5	I'd add another meal in at about 8.30 cause you are eating every 2-3 hours through the day and here there is a 4.5 hour break, you may snack and then you wont be hungry later....also when you start to gain weight you'll be more hungry due to the increase in muscle mass. Even if its a pack of peanuts and a banana __________________ intentionally blank

28-07-2006, 11:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Hammy2k Hamster in training! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portadown, Northern Ireland Posts: 11	This has been alot more difficult than I thought it would be... we started out great on Sunday, every meal was in place and I managed to clean up after myself... wasn't so good the rest of the week... My main problem in the mornings is time... I get up at 5:30 in order to be in work for 7am, I know this sounds like long enough to get the usual morning stuff sorted and get my oats (I don't like them much) and scrambled eggs, but... I never have enough time to get both of these, the oats are pretty much in my diet constantly but I am lacking protein in this meal... I haven't yet added a meal in at 8/8:30 as I can't sneak away from work long enough to eat anything... and they have a damn walkie talkie on me so I'm never in a position where I can't be reached! First morning break is good, I get some chicken strips and milk, though haven't been to get the fish oils (should be getting them tomorrow) Lunch is always good (thanks mum!) Afternoon break has been interesting, I have tried tuna with three combinations this week, sweetcorn and mayo, lime and mayo (disgusting - though I ate it) and the mediteranian one I have mentioned previously... eating a banana with this... Evening meal (pre-workout) was good at the start of the week as I got out from work around 5pm, but later in the week I had to work a little later and meant I couldn't eat before the gym, still got the creatine though) post workout was spot on, and later meal was grand too... So all in all a mixed bag - though something I am committed to and REALLY keen to nail it sooner rather than later! Sorry for the long post - though did warn you that I was going to keep you all posted! I have also worked out what I will be ordering in this months supps... Flaxseed Powder L Glutamine Omega 3 Tribulus Terrestris (am still only contemplating this... jamiedsmith1981 recommended pairing this with ZMA for when I need a boost - so I might get some and have them in reserve if I need them...) My usual protein and CEE and still have loads of dextrose, though cutting it out completely except for the post work out shake. Hammy __________________ Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate... Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure...

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