kevo

Hi all, been a long time since I have been on here, been getting my diet nailed before my 1st cycle, made some decent progress, but not as much as I would like!

Was thinking of a Winny, test 1st cycle. Dont want to gain too much mass first time round, and want to make some lean gains which I have a decent chance of keeping post cycle.

Can anyone give me a cycle for the above and pct for after? Any liver protectors needed (was assuming I would with the winny)?!

regards,
Kev

Cheater2K

Whats the reason of not waiting to gain as uch mass as you can first cycle?? This is where you will benifit fully from it.

If you just wanting abit more size, not alot more, then i recommend you do it natraly.

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kevo

Hmm, suppose, just dont want the mrs and all the relatives jumping stright to one conclusion! Otherwise I would be on a dbol/test 1st cycle. Thought a test/winny would yeald decent size gains also, whilst hardening me up!

Aftershock

Do test dbol but stretch to adex at 0.5mg ed (if you can afford it) and it will be all lean gains.

Its the sudden increase in size due to water retention thats the dead give away.

Well that and the wanting sex 4 times a day

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Aftershock

Cheater2K

Blame it on creatine and protein powder always works

First cycle youll gain the most, could be anything even around the 12lb mark.

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kevo

Aftershock, I take it adex works the same as proviron?

Cheater, lol, I suppose I could blag that one! How much of it would be keepable though as I realise alot will be water! Whats the best post cycle to help keep it?

Cheater2K

You could run 10mg Nolva ED, that will prob keep the water down enough, D-bol, gains weill prob be about 50-60% (thats with no nolva etc) test would prob be 85% upwards.

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kevo

cool cheers Cheater. what test should I go for? I was thinking of running nolva cos im s**t scared of getting gyno!

Aftershock

Adex would work in the same way as Prov by stopping the test/dbol aromatising into estrogen. Although obviously the Adex is much more effective and expensive.

Nova wont help with water retention IMO as it only blocks the estrogen receptors so the estrogen cant bind, you still get the estrogen buildup which causes water retention.

Nova is actually known to cause a little water retention in its own right being a mild estrogen. Nova is great at preventing gyno but ineffective at combatting water retention, well for me anyway.

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"You are what you eat you can't possibly be anything else"

or put another way "eat sh*t look like sh*t!!"

Aftershock

kevo

Confused now!! (doesnt take much)!

Is proviron not much crack then?

Aftershock

Prov is ok but nowhere near as effective as adex.

The problem is you trying to disguise the fact that your on cycle. There is a lot of potential estrogen buildup with test/dbol.. I used prov at 50mg ed when I did test/dbol and still lost 11lbs of water post cycle..


Much easier if you could just come clean with the missis. I take it thats not an option?

__________________
"You are what you eat you can't possibly be anything else"

or put another way "eat sh*t look like sh*t!!"

Aftershock

kevo

well, it could be mate, she would get used to it, and the sofa aint that bad really! :rolleye11

So you reckon I tell the mrs and bin the proviron/adex idea?!

Aftershock

Well it would be a lot cheaper and easier mate...

Plus its really isnt any fun decieving people close to you...

Maybe drop a few hints and test the water hey?

__________________
"You are what you eat you can't possibly be anything else"

or put another way "eat sh*t look like sh*t!!"

Aftershock

kevo

yup, right there mate!

I will get on it asap, maybe I can start a 'how many days have you spent on the sofa' thread!!

Cheater2K

Nolva for me takes the water away enough, a little water helps so you dont want to be blocking estrogen all together.

10mg-20mg nolva ED would be plenty enough to keep water down to the min and keep gyno at bay.

Adex is only really needed if your really gyno prone, which you wont know yet.

As for test, keep to somthing single, Eg, Test Enanthate.

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