winger

I did a cycle of deca about 5 1/2 months ago. I gained 7 pound and added 50 pounds on my bench among other things. I tested my testosterone levels 2 weeks post cycle and it was at 300. It should be between 230-700, quite a big spread if I don't say so myself. Just got checked for my annual physical and it tested at 75. My question is, has anyone ever had this happen to them? I look better and am stronger than I have ever been and have a tess level of 75? What is up with that. Now do I want to rape chicks and jack off every night.................no. But how can my lifts be up and test at 75? I can get an erection but I have to think about it and it does seem to be more work. In that past I jacked off almost every day. Now I just make love to my wife once a week. I have a doctors apt tomarrow and they will test it again. I just dont get it. Has anyone heard of this before? Did the deca jack me up? I am one depressed 44 year old man with a 300 pound bench.
Can hot water jack with the testicals? Hot baths? Jacuzzi?

I had it checked after work. They said it is higher in the morning.

robdog

i hope this does not last long. i wont realy use deca because ive red alot of things about it affecing you badly post cycle but that is just my opinion so best of luck with your levels and i hope you get out of your depression soon

rob

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winger

Thanks. I have been trying to loose some body fat and I have been watching my diet and I do cardio. I just stepped on the scale and noticed that I lost anther 10 pounds. I am almost 30 lighter than the end of my cycle. I am starting to worry now. In the past I could never loose no matter how hard I tried. I am going to the doctor for another check on the testosterone levels. I swear my right nut never seemed to come back.

Great White

Mate

Your test will be low after a cycle well your body recovers.

I take it you ran Clomid ok after yeah?

If i were you i would invest in some HCG.

Do 3 Shots @1500iu`s a shot Mon/Wed/Fri

That`ll sort out your nuts, especially after Deca

Paul

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winger

I did that 10 days after my last shot and did the clomid too. That was 5 months ago. Whouldn't you think my levels would be back by now. That makes no sence. Now im loosing weight and I am trying to but it is coming off way to easy. I have an appointment in 3 hours so I will keep you guys posted.

hackskii

I think you took a bad test. I would tell the DR. that you have NO sex drive and have them perscribe you human grade Testosterone and have you insurance pick up the tab. Sweet deal. I bet that you are fine and try not to worry.

I know you dont have a problem with this bro but here goes:

low fat diets lower testosterone levels, the importance of dietary fat for anyone wanting to build muscle faster


New research has confirmed the importance of dietary fat for anyone wanting to build muscle faster. Researchers from Pennsylvania State University analysed the effects of different nutrients on testosterone levels. Because testosterone and muscle growth are connected, they were trying to establish which types of diet would be most effective at raising testosterone.


While the researchers found a strong link between protein and testosterone (highlighting the importance of getting enough protein in your diet), they were also surprised to find a connection between dietary fat and testosterone.


In other words, as fat in the diet dropped, so did testosterone! Obviously, if you're training to build muscle, low testosterone levels will slow down your progress.


Here are 3 steps you can take today to make sure your diet isn't lowering your testosterone levels.


1. Ensure that you're getting enough protein.
Foods such as lean red meat, chicken, and fish are good sources of protein. You can also use 2-3 scoops of Promax each day if you're concerned that you're not getting enough protein in your diet. Remember that protein is a key component of natural steroids within your body.


2. Don't cut all fat from your diet.
If your diet is too low in fat (especially the essential fatty acids, such as those found in fish), then your testosterone levels will also plummet. Aim to consume around 20-30% of your total calories each day in the form of good fats.


3. Include Progain in your diet.
Progain contains both Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT's) and Essential Fatty Acids (EFA's). Both are "good" fats that help to optimise testosterone levels and boost muscle growth. Progain also contains BIOMAX, a high-quality whey protein that feeds your muscles with the nutrients they need to grow. The carbohydrate in Progain is also derived from maltodextrin (a complex carbohydrate) rather than cheap simple carbohydrates that promote fat storage.

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Scott


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hackskii

Zinc status and serum testosterone levels of healthy adults.
Ananda S. Prasad, Mantzoros CS, Beck FWJ, Hess JW, Brewer GJ.
From the Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Hematology-Oncology, Wayne State University, School of Medicine, Detroit Michigan
Departments of Human Genetics and Internal medicine, The University of of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Division of Endocrinolofy, Department of Internal Medicine, Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Ma. USA
Nutrition, 12(5):344-8 1996

Zinc deficiency is prevalent throughout the world, including the USA. Severe and moderate deficiency of zinc is associated with hypogonadism in men. However, the effect of marginal zinc deficiency on serum testosterone concentration is not known. We studied the relationship between cellular zinc concentrations and serum testosterone cross-sectionally in 40 normal men, 20 to 80 y of age. In four normal young men (27.5+/- 0.5 y), we measured serum testosterone before and during marginal zinc deficiency induced by restricting dietary zinc intake. We also measured serum testosterone in nine elderly men (64 +/- 9 y) who were marginally zinc deficient before and after 3 to 6 mo of supplementation with 459 mumol/ d oral zinc administered as zinc gluconate. Serum testosterone concentrations were significantly correlated with cellular zinc concentrations in the cross-sectional study (lymphocyte zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.43, p = 0.006; granulocyte zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.30, p = 0.03).

Dietary zinc restriction in normal young men was associated with a significant decrease in serum testosterone concentrations after 20 weeks of zinc restriction (baseline versus post-zinc restriction mean +/- SD, 39.9 +/- 7.1 versus 10.6 +/- 3.6 nmol/L, respectively; p = 0.005). Zinc supplementation of marginally zinc-deficient normal elderly men for six months resulted in an increase in serum testosterone from 8.3 +/- 6.3 to 16.0 +/- 4.4 nmol/L (p = 0.02). We conclude that zinc may play an important role in modulating serum testosterone levels in normal men.

(This study was supported by National Institutes of Health/National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Grant; Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Grant; NIH/National Cancer Insitute Grant; Clinical Research Center Grant; the W.K. Kellog Foundation; and Labcatal Laboratories.)

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Scott


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winger

Just got back from the doctors. He is running more blood work on me. He is also testing my pituitary gland. He said if the pituitary produces to much testosterone then it will shut off my balls. I said well 75 isn't enough to shut off my balls and he said that it could. He also checked my balls and said they were atrophied. No kidding. He is also doing a sperm count. I asked him if my pituitary gland is over producing then what would cause that? He said a tumor. I wont know till about a week or maybe a little bit less. I will keep you guys posted if you want.
Can hcg affect the balls from not producing enough testosterone permanently?

T-man

The time of day you take the test can also effect the results I think. You should have your blood test done at similar times of day to compare properly. As your test is higher first thing in the morning.

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winger

Yea I agree, but I dont care what time you take it, if your levels are normal there is no way if you took it at night it would be 75. Should be between 230-700. Just one bummed out mo fo.

hackskii

Stole this off of another site. This might help bro. I even think I might need to do this:
If your balls are still small, and you want to try and recover, then try this.

Take 500ius of HCG ED for 20 days. Wait 5-6 days for the HCG to clear the system and hit 40mg of Nolvadex for 14 days, followed by another 14 days at 20mg.

Wait another 2-3 weeks and get your blood work done again.

You can take 1000-1500mg of MACA ED to help with Libido, along with 1000mg of Avena Sativa too.

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Scott


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winger

Deca is satan. That is some bad stuff. The more I have been reading the more I realized that I really messed up. They are also saying to do hcg 4 wees after your last shot. I think that the deca just stays in the system too long and that is why there is so many problems at the end. Thanks hackskii. I think I will do that. I would like to maybe take it now, that way when I go to the doctors I can check for a spike in tes levels, just to see if it is working.

winger

This is off of another forum that some Dr. posted

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.


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Raven

That's an excellent post winger, I didn't know arimidex can give you low libido.

I used arimidex post cycle and am having problems now. I'm actually gonna put this post on MT to see what the doc or bigfella makes of it

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winger

Thanks Raven. That came from a Dr. John, he goes by the name Swale. This guy has been emailing me and he is concerned. He is the best. If I get more answers then I will get back with you on that. It seems we have the same problem. I just hope that when I used the hcg at 1000 iu every other day that it didn't shut me off permanently. Did you take hcg and if so how much?