Biker

you should hold gains fairly well mate as most of what you gain should be real and not water etc and because you haven't fully shut down you should kick into recovery very quickly.

Personally on a 25/17 style cycle I wouldn't use test prop or tren ace after day 20 and would only run orals for the last 5 days.

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Aftershock

I was going to stop the Jabs on day 21, which is 11 shots in total, otherwise ill be doing one shot on day 19 and one shot on day 20.

Actually I've been thinking about this, would it be a good idea to frontload the jabs doubling up the shots on day 1 so you reach peak concentration from day 1?

Or do a shot on days 1+2 and then go eod finishing on day 20.

Admittedly there's not a lot of dead time with short ethers, but it still takes about a week to reach peak concentrations if you assume the half life of prop or tren ace to be 2 days.

Frontloading and orals are usually an either or option, but with the cycle being so short, I feel it could be advantageous to do both together.

Good idea or am i spouting sh!t?

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Aftershock

samurai69

21 on 21 off ???

well i am hoping that for the first bit byt increasing the duration (upto 3 weeks) that will be enough then when that stops increase dosage gradually

but as Hack says there is a fine line between gains and shutdown:confused:

Biker

either 14 on 21 off or 21 on 21 off, or you could do the 25/17 method it isn't going to make any big difference IMHO.

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Biker

front loading would do no harm tbh you wouldn't want to it any more than a double shot on day 1.

If and this is where I think many go wrong, if you keep injecting with an ester based drug right up until day 25, and assuming it could take anything up to a week for you to clear you end up taking very little time off, and in truth you're not far off just being on all the time and I would suspect you would gradually become more shut down as you add cycles.

IMHO you want to be clean as a whistle on day 26 so the only way to be sure is to run in with orals only on the last 5 days.


actually reading that again I like "Or do a shot on days 1+2 and then go eod finishing on day 20."

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JohnO

Aftershock, do you mind me asking how your cycle is planned out, is it ala Chefs exactly ie 25/17 then planned 25/25? With recomended gear?

What sort of gains you getting to date?

Aftershock

No its not exactly the same as Chefs, its based on Chefs and other short cycle info ive gleemed from all over the place. Im not following Chefs eating or training philosophies either. I am going 25/17 then 25/24 tho.

Currently Im doing
Dbol 50mg ed
NPP 100mg eod
Test Prop 50mg eod
Prov 50mg ed (For anti-aromatise and keeping the libedo going)
Clomid 10mg ed
Nova 5mg ed
Cabergoline 0.5mg every 4 days
CN pro-male 4 tabs a day (trib)

Everything under the prov im running for 32 days total.

Was initially concerned about potential libedo problems with the low test dose but with the prov and Cabergoline in there ive turned ito a sex maniac. Im considering droping the prov over the next day or so, and maybe reducing the dbol dosage to 35 mg because Its the first time I've done 50mg and im getting some wicked heaadaches.

Everything has kicked in very quickly and it all seems to be working in synergy with each other. Im close to my PB's in all my lifts and its only gona get better from here on in.

Gona run clen at 40mg ed post cycle as well as 4mil of Kyno ed.

Ill let you know how it goes... the next one will be

Tren 75mg eod
Test Prop 50mg eod
Var 100mg ed
plus clomid, nova, trib etc...

Thats the one im really looking forward to...

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or put another way "eat sh*t look like sh*t!!"

Aftershock

ONE SMART COOKIE

Bigger gains aint always better..imo..

"If it aint broke dont fix it"

In fact I would also go as far as saying dont even think about fixing it as you will kid/fool yourself in to it not working and get less and less gains...

But thats always been my point/arguement about the 14 day courses you are never going to get any shutdown..unless of course you use ridiculous doses...and you still get gains...why use longer cycles and risk some shutdown..I say air on the side of caution and the gains will be consistent each and every cycle...

Dont run before you can walk...its woked and will keep working...your working with the body not against it..and your not on long enough to cause the body any cause for concern...homeostasis...

This has always been my biggest bugbear with regards to the way people cycle nowadays..they are always looking to get the same gains out of all cycles each and everytime instead of just cycling with the same dose etc and getting consitant gains all be it possibly smaller each time but gains all the same..thenwhen you dont gain anything then you change compounds or increase dosage slightly.....IMO..this is why people end up on too big a dose too soon..always chacing the bigger gains...slow,steady and consitant is the best way to go..imo... at 14 days on and 14 days off the cost of the gear is tiny even if at the end of each cycle you only keep 1-2lbs but added to the big picture over the year thats about 24 possible cycles at a gain of 24-48lbs in weight which in my book is impressive...

Biker

and you're right that's how you start climbing the ladder although the example I gave was a fairly mild cycle in the first place. But generally it's best to stick with a dose until it yields no results, and even then you should look at diet etc to see if they may be at fault.

I gave the example more to let S69 know that it was unlikely his gains would continue with a dose as low as 15mg ED and I'm fairly confident it won't take long to exhaust that dose.

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samurai69

I am not expecting miracles, and at some stage i realise gains will completely stop at this dose, when that happens i can either up the dose or the time on

Biker

Appreciated mate and you're being very sensible in your approach to it all IMHO.

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DB

bump that

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often imitated never duplicated
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DB sleeps with a night light. Not because DB is
afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of DB.


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ONE SMART COOKIE

I agree too..looks like in a way were on the same wave lenght....

I think though that the 15mg dose will run for a lot longer than most people give it credit for and maybe even(just my own idea)that when it doesnt continue to yeild gains in the weight department(scales)it may still contribute to strength increases and best yet on a cellular level actual give a solidifying effect to the previous gains....

Yopu just do what your told and no questions asked:gun:
I would be more in favour of using a different compound atb the same dose just to see if its some sort of receptor shutdown to that particular compound and not dose related...

samurai69

:confused: :confused: what you after



.

samurai69

:jerk:


No problems at the moment, so :confused: , are you saying now or if/when there is a slow down/stop in gains.



.